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18-Aug-2012, 12:48 PM #1
Java Issue Firefox
I had updated Java SUCCESSFULLY, and, as recommended, uninstalled an earlier version, I had 2 of them, but I did just one, then re-checked for Java installation, which had shown success. Well after the uninstall of an earlier Java it said there was no install, this was on Mozilla latest Firefox, on IE9 it says I have the latest Java. Now I checked in FF for updates to the plugins that I have in addons for Java, say they are all updated. What can I do to fix this? I'm on dial-up and I download at 3.7kb a second so it takes a LONG time to update or download anything.
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18-Aug-2012, 01:53 PM #2
Where have you been 'checking' the status of your Java installation? Try going here;http://www.javatester.org/ with each browser and clicking, firstly, on the 'Test the version...' box at top centre of the page and, secondly, on the orange 'Java enabled?' box on the left of the page.

If your version is 1.0.7_06 you're up to date and good to go (assuming that Java is actually enabled in each browser!). Java is frequently confused with JavaScript, which is quite different, and is not a separately installed program. If you're interested, you can also use the Javatester site (click on the orange 'JavaScript' box) to check your JS version (probably 1.3 in IE and 1.8 in Firefox).
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18-Aug-2012, 06:46 PM #3
Testing
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGG View Post
Where have you been 'checking' the status of your Java installation? Try going here;http://www.javatester.org/ with each browser and clicking, firstly, on the 'Test the version...' box at top centre of the page and, secondly, on the orange 'Java enabled?' box on the left of the page.
Hello TOGG,

I had been testing at http://www.java.com/en/download/installed.jsp

I went to the site you suggested and since I do not have Adoble Flashplayer could not see 'Test the version...' but was able to use the "Java enabled?" one and it said, on my Mozilla, "LIVE This web browser can NOT run Java applets."

On IE9 the "Java enabled?" reported:
"LIVE This web browser can INDEED run Java applets."
And when I did the other test on IE9: What Version of Java Are You Using?
Java Version 1.7.0_05 from Oracle Corporation

Yet I hasten to repeat that when I FIRST updated Java, through my Mozilla browser and tested it at java.com as above it showed SUCCESS. Then I went and uninstalled one of the previous versions and that is when the trouble started, I thereupon did a restore point and it did not help and I had redid the updating of course. Now in my add/remove progams Window section it shows the 99mb Java I had uninstalled as still there now, where it had been missing, of course it could just be a file of the same size that I had uninstalled as I cannot remember the exact name of it this one is Java 7 update 5 but it is the exact size of the one I uninstalled so it presents a further mystery I suppose. I do thank you for replying.

BTW I do like your signature, a very sensible way of looking at life, thanks for that too!

Last edited by WW2; 18-Aug-2012 at 06:48 PM.. Reason: add remark about his signature
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18-Aug-2012, 07:20 PM #4
The download and install may have been successful but Java will still not work if the browser's settings, or some third party tool, (such as NoScript or an ad blocker), prevent Java from running.

You are still one version out of date and, as Update 6 does include some improvements in the handling of certificates, you might want to think about updating again. I got version 7 U 6 from here; http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/ja...s-1637588.html (the Windows x 86 Offline version) and didn't uninstall the previous one because the new one appears to uninstall or overwrite it (at least I only have 7 U 6 in 'Add/Remove' occupying 130 MB with a further 20.88 MB for Java FX 2.1.1, whatever that is)!

Firefox isn't my default browser but I do have a copy of it and have NoScript installed, so I always have to temporarily allow any site that uses things like Java or Flash content.
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18-Aug-2012, 08:07 PM #5
JavaFX 2.1.1
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGG View Post
The download and install may have been successful but Java will still not work if the browser's settings, or some third party tool, (such as NoScript or an ad blocker), prevent Java from running.

You are still one version out of date and, as Update 6 does include some improvements in the handling of certificates, you might want to think about updating again. I got version 7 U 6 from here; http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/ja...s-1637588.html (the Windows x 86 Offline version) and didn't uninstall the previous one because the new one appears to uninstall or overwrite it (at least I only have 7 U 6 in 'Add/Remove' occupying 130 MB with a further 20.88 MB for Java FX 2.1.1, whatever that is)!
Hello TOGG,
Running Windows Vista, not that it would make a difference just thought more information.
I don't have Ad Blocker/ or Noscript nor any of those sorts of things as addons, and I DID have a successful test initially with the Mozilla Firefox browser @ http://www.java.com/en/download/installed.jsp prior to the uninstalling of, what I think is the Java 7 update 5 99mb

I have checked the add/remove again and the latest one installed by Java, yesterday, is listed as JavaFX 2.1.1 the one previous to that is Java 7 update 5, and before that Java 6 update 33.

Now the Fx211 is a mere 20mb as you pointed out but that is a part, not the whole of the Java, would that be accurate? And, apparently, there is some sort of building upon the previous installation, would that also be accurate? For clearly the initial success and the consequent FAIL after the uninstall tends to indicate that.

Thanks again for your kindness and promptness in replying.

Last edited by WW2; 18-Aug-2012 at 08:10 PM.. Reason: additional remarks
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18-Aug-2012, 08:34 PM #6
Further research into FX 2.1.1 produced this; http://docs.oracle.com/javafx/2/over...b-overview.htm It seems fairly clear that, as I am not a developer, I don't need this and could probably uninstall it without affecting the operation of the rest of Java.

What isn't clear is how you got it because it comes bundled with 7 u 6 (although versions of FX were previously available separately and, apparently, still are until support for earlier Java versions is withdrawn next year) [I only read the first part of this document once and so may have misunderstood it]

I'm not sure how the various testers you've used were able to detect version 6 u 5 if the only thing showing in your Add/Remove' (or whatever it's called in Vista) only shows Java FX? Perhaps we can look into it some more later (it's already Sunday here!)
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19-Aug-2012, 11:09 AM #7
I hope my 'thick finger' error in my last post (referring to v 6 u 5 when I meant 7 u 5) hasn't caused you any problems (it was very late and I'd had a few drinks!).

It certainly seems clear that you, like me, don't need FX but it's unlikely to cause any problems if you just leave it alone. Were you updating Java to run some specific software or online games or just responding to some form of reminder that a new version was available? Depending on what you do with your computer, it is at least a possibility that you could survive without Java installed at all.

If you know you have programs that need Java to work, you could consider getting 7 u 6 from the link I posted above and seeing if it will install and work in both your browsers. Meanwhile, I'll have a look at the Mozilla Help files to see if there's anything about activating Java in Firefox.
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19-Aug-2012, 11:19 AM #8
This seems to be right on the money; http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/...+Java&r=1&as=s
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19-Aug-2012, 12:01 PM #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGG View Post
I hope my 'thick finger' error in my last post (referring to v 6 u 5 when I meant 7 u 5) hasn't caused you any problems

If you know you have programs that need Java to work, you could consider getting 7 u 6 from the link I posted above and seeing if it will install and work in both your browsers.
What puzzles me is that if the 7.5 that it shows as installed, was the one I had uninstalled, was that a part of the FX download, I don't know if I can determine that as it was so many hours of downloading that I just got into a bit of a haze actually. And also the fact that the test, as I indicated earlier, showed a successful install, on the Mozilla which I was testing on, is making me wonder what I did, in fact, uninstall, and that is the most perplexing, to me, of the problems, of course this is ALL one big problem!

May I inquire if you are running a 64 bit system or a 32? Perhaps that might explain why you have the 7/6 probably not but I cast about for any possibilities. So if the 7.5 is older, and the 7.6 is new, why did they give me only the FX and it still doesn't explain the initial success.

An additional query is does one need anything other than the FX, at a mere 20mb compared to the nearly 100 of the previous ones it would be a "lightweight" by comparison. The reason I checked the status originally, when they told me I had an old version of Java, was that I had read somewhere a couple of weeks before that there was a security issue.

Now as I mentioned on dial-up and downloading at 3.7kbs so it is with trepidation that I read on that Mozilla page you so kindly provided:
To get Java working again, see I have to say that would be a very discouraging fact.

Sadly even though I know that Java is a dreadful piece of junk like Adobe, it is, nevertheless, required for any commerce and many other uses of websites, apparently they are interested in "pretty" not function, bells & whistles I call it.

Now I did note on the Java site that they provide rather than the installer method which is one long update after another then the 3-4 hour one for the 20mb when I got FX that they also provide a single 20mb download, now if I could find someone with access to high-speed could they download that full Java whether the FX or the one you mentioned onto a Flash Drive and the place on my computer? Would that be feasible?

I do so appreciate your help and generosity I know I've been rambling a bit here but I dreamt all night of malware

Reading this: http://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/...d-unblock-java
What, again, puzzles me the most is the initial success results on the Java site test until I did the removal of what I think must be the 7.5.

In the Plugins in Mozilla addons it shows: JAVA platform SE 7 U5 10.5.1.255 for Mozilla browsers July 2012 updated there are in total two of plugins for Java both enabled.
I am sure there is a solution to this, and you are shining much light upon it. Thanks.

Last edited by WW2; 19-Aug-2012 at 12:15 PM.. Reason: additional remarks
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19-Aug-2012, 02:33 PM #10
I'm running XP Home 32 bit and the d/l for 32 bit systems is the second from the bottom of the list on the downloads page (full name ' jre-7u6-windows-i586.exe') It's a 29.73MB download (it just expands to occupy more hard drive space after it's installed). As it is an .exe file, anyone should be able to download it onto a flash drive or burn it onto a CD for you.

It seems clear that you will need the full installer package not just FX 2.1.1 (which I only got because Oracle are now automatically including it with 7 u 6, I certainly didn't download it for myself!)

My Firefox Plugins list shows 'Java (TM) Platform SE 7 U 6 10.6.2.24' and also 'Java Development Toolkit 7.0.60.24 10.6.2.24'. I don't think the second entry is too significant because I know that the JDK (which, as its name implies, is for people that want to write Java applets) also includes the JSE in its download, so it seems I have managed to get both, despite having no use for the second one!
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19-Aug-2012, 04:45 PM #11
At risk of introducing further confusion or complication, I think I should point out that you could try the 'Online' installation which only requires an initial download of .085MB, (followed by whichever files the installer deems necessary) so as to 'help users avoid downloading unnecessary files'.

I have no idea how much of the Offline 29MB download this might eliminate but you can read all about it here; http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs...pdate-faq.html
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19-Aug-2012, 09:18 PM #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGG View Post
At risk of introducing further confusion or complication, I think I should point out that you could try the 'Online' installation which only requires an initial download of .085MB, (followed by whichever files the installer deems necessary) so as to 'help users avoid downloading unnecessary files'.
That recalls to my mind the same initial download I did for what ended up being the FX one. I noted reading that Mozilla link you gave earlier that Firefox allegedly BARS any old Java that is considered unsafe, yet using Mozilla I have not had sites ask for Java to be installed as a test I had had Mozilla NOT allow Java and I was prompted by websites to get Java, when I permitted Mozilla to use Java then I had no such requests. You have provided information about testing Java and so forth that I had no idea of, betraying my innocence in the field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGG
It seems clear that you will need the full installer package not just FX 2.1.1 (which I only got because Oracle are now automatically including it with 7 u 6, I certainly didn't download it for myself!)

My Firefox Plugins list shows 'Java (TM) Platform SE 7 U 6 10.6.2.24' and also 'Java Development Toolkit 7.0.60.24 10.6.2.24'.
Now dear TOGG, if I may further impose upon your kindness, would you suggest I uninstall ALL of the Java versions I have currently and start afresh? Perchance did you note the full size of that installation, what it would be in toto? Also where is that download again is it where you listed this?
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs...pdate-faq.html

If not where? If that full install isn't very great in size, I might attempt to download it myself with this old heap and the 3.7kbs it might take 10 hours but maybe that would settle it all together.

I told my wife that there is an extraordinary gentleman helping on this matter and I remarked how very rare that has become today. I do so appreciate your kindness.
Thank you.
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20-Aug-2012, 01:34 PM #13
The full version for 32 bit Windows is here;http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/ja...s-1637588.html (details in the first paragraph of my post #10 - it's 29.73 MB).

There is no point in keeping old Java versions as they are targetted by malware, once their security weaknesses become known. Having read the details about FX it must be doubtful whether you or I actually need it but you are the only one that can decide that. I suppose it is possible that 'security' issues will be identified with FX at some point in the future which would necessitate its being removed or updated then.

As for 'allowing' Firefox to run Java, are you certain it wasn't JavaScript you disallowed? That is used extensively on websites and pages and would definitely lead to you being told to allow it nearly everywhere you went in order to view pages properly (or at all).
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20-Aug-2012, 06:13 PM #14
Indeed so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGG View Post
The full version for 32 bit Windows is here;http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/ja...s-1637588.html (details in the first paragraph of my post #10 - it's 29.73 MB).

There is no point in keeping old Java versions as they are targetted by malware, once their security weaknesses become known. Having read the details about FX it must be doubtful whether you or I actually need it but you are the only one that can decide that. I suppose it is possible that 'security' issues will be identified with FX at some point in the future which would necessitate its being removed or updated then.
I think you do mention in that post that in toto it is about 130 MB?
Quote:
(it just expands to occupy more hard drive space after it's installed)
Sort of like a zip drive expands? In that case if it is a 29.3MB I can do that from my old computer with dial-up may take 4 or 5 hours but I can do that!

Would it be wise to uninstall all the Java currently listed in my add/remove programs. Perhaps even uninstall Mozilla and Sea Monkey as well, perhaps.

Does Java put those plug-ins onto the Mozilla?

Now I'm thinking this may have a, potential shall we say, happy ending after all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGG View Post
As for 'allowing' Firefox to run Java, are you certain it wasn't JavaScript you disallowed? That is used extensively on websites and pages and would definitely lead to you being told to allow it nearly everywhere you went in order to view pages properly (or at all).
You are, of course, quite right, I think between restore points, uninstalling, reinstalling the Java the other day, over 10 hours, wasn't thinking quite clearly and certainly do not rank much above the point and click type of computer user, as you can surely see.

I had unclicked JAVA SCRIPT, so that was not any helpful sign. On that Mozilla link it says that Mozilla blocks unsafe older versions of Java so how is it, then, that I am able to use Java on Mozilla? Whilst I do feel you have offered superb alternatives and suggestions, which I intend to follow as soon as I can find a person willing to download the complete Java onto a flashdrive for me, still one wonders about the mysterious puzzle of an initial successful update of Java and the complete turnaround once I had uninstalled a previous version. Then there is the issue of getting the latest update and NOT getting the 7.6 I think you said that you have. Odd business I'd say and for curiosity's sake I would like to know how those two things happened. Perhaps someone may one day figure that out, but I am calm now thanks to you and realize that this can, most likely, be remedied by uninstalling the Java and installing the latest version from that which you gave.

I look forward to your reply and thank you for your patience with me and your obvious good-nature. Thank you very much indeed.
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20-Aug-2012, 07:07 PM #15
I'll try and deal with the points you raise in the order you raised them;

1.The Java version on my hard drive shows up at 130MB so there is obviously some growth once the 29MB download is installed but I'm not technically savvy enough to know how or why it happens. Possibly something to do with sofware 'libraries' already included in windows?

2.You should almost certainly uninstall old Java versions (shown in your Add/Remove list as 'Java Version 6 (or 7) Update **). As I said, I didn't actually do that and my version 7 Update 5 'disappeared' after the install of 7 Update 6, but the formal advice from Oracle is to uninstall it yourself.

3. If you have the latest Firefox version (14.0.1), there's no need to uninstall it. I'm not familiar with SeaMonkey but I don't see why you would need to remove that either, as long as it is up to date. I personally have never had to do anything to 'activate' new versions of Java in any of my browsers, but I believe there are FAQ or Help files about how to do it if a browser doesn't work properly after a Java upgrade.

4. I can't offer any guesses as to what combination of factors might have led to your present situation. As far as I am aware the blocking of Java that Mozilla does will be of really old versions with known exploits 'in the wild'. There is still a Version 6 Update 34 in use and being supported by Oracle, so that wouldn't be blocked by Mozilla.

5.If you can get the 29MB .exe file yourself or via someone else, it should be a simple matter of doubleclicking on the file to install it (watching out for any 'extras' that are offerred). If you uninstalled your present version of FX first, you'll probably get it again because I don't remember seeing any option to refuse it when I installed 7 Update 6!
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