[pywakett]

Power Mac G4 Dual 1GHz MDD, OS X 10.4.11, 2GB RAM
Have had completely random kernel panics since machine was brand new with nothing attached but the keyboard and monitor. Apple techs had me reinstall the OS several times but that did not solve the problem, so I gave up. The panics have persisted through all the OS upgrades I have done. And I do all the daily, weekly and monthly maintenance routines on schedule.
Sometimes I get the KP box in the center of the screen, but usually all I get is a bunch of white letters in black boxes half way to all the way down the screen. More often than not there is no log written in System Profiler.
At this point, I would like someone to explain to me what the following terms mean:
unaligned stack
corrupt stack
unaligned frame address
frame not mapped or invalid
simple lock--deadlock detection
When restarting after a panic, I can repeat step-by-step exactly what I was doing when the panic happened and everything is fine. Plus, at times I have not even been in the same room and returned to find it frozen in a panic.
Thank you to anyone that can help.

[Headrush]

I'm not sure explaining what each of those is would help much.

It's sounds like the issue is likely hardware related if the issue occurs constantly even after clean OS installs.

Have you checked the RAM?

[pywakett]

Thank you, Headrush. I want to know what those terms mean so I can better understand what is happening, or at least know what that terminology means. It would help me ... i.e.-do those terms refer to the OS, or to the underlying Unix code, or????
I replaced the original memory several years ago, and then replaced that last year--I was increasing the total memory. The panics persisted in the same way through all of it. The fact that the panics are so random and I can't reproduce them is very frustrating. Sometimes there will be 2 or even 3 in a night and at other times I can go 4-6 weeks without a panic, even though I'm doing the same thing every night.

[Headrush]

I still think explaining each of those wouldn't help but essentially they all are suggesting the same thing: "the CPU was looking for something in RAM at a specific location and it wasn't there".

Here is an example in more detail: https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0

There is no way to tell whether the failing is in an application, the kernel, or other part of the OS without a full crash log.
(Example in the link above)

With faulty RAM, it is very unpredictable and can happen at different times, and sometimes not at all.
The only way to check for sure is running a memory scan.

Bootable hardware test discs from Apple: http://www.info.apple.com/support/aht.html

http://www.memtestosx.org/joomla/index.php

Let these run for a long time for a thorough test. (hours if possible, they test with multiple patterns)

If the RAM appears OK, the next thing I would look into would be a component overheating. There are tools like http://www.bresink.com/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html for checking those.

Hope that helps.

[pywakett]

Thanks again, Headrush.
I have Temp Monitor and nothing runs "hot"--i.e.--after my Mac has been running for 5 hours tonight, the CPUs are at 133.36º, HD is 95º, and 2nd HD in back slot is 99ºF. Also, I have had Memtest for a couple years and have run it periodically in loop mode for hours and it always says all is fine. I run the Apple Hardware test CD, also through 3 complete passes at a time, and all is well. I use Disk Utility on the CD and run "Verify Disk" three times in a row also, and it always says " Disk passed verification". I also use Preference Cleaner, TechTool Deluxe and have SMARTReporter running all the time. And I use Mac Janitor to do the daily, weekly, and monthly maintenance tasks. (I have Cocktail, but it crashes when I try to open it)
Here are a few panic logs:

panic(cpu 0 caller 0x000A4EC8): simple lock (0x02D0CE1C) deadlock detection, pc=0x0002D2B8

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x000A4EC8 0x0002D2B8
0x000A4698 0x0003A954 0x0003AA24
0x00273840 0x000ABFB8
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x42436C80)
PC=0x9000AF48; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x0079E000; DSISR=0x0A000000; LR=0x9000AE9C; R1=0xBFFFEBA0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)



Description: Panic (system crashes) log
Size: 42.32 KB
Last Modified: 7/27/12 12:48 AM
Location: /Library/Logs/panic.log
Recent Contents: ...
Exception state (sv=0x42369500)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x4238FA00)
PC=0x9000AF48; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0x3684C040; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x9000AE9C; R1=0xBFFFC840; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPC
panic(cpu 0 caller 0xFFFF0003): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x000A8204 0x000ABB80
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x42369500)
PC=0x000A8DB8; MSR=0x00001030; DAR=0x00000014; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x000A8D14; R1=0x2C633CC0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x04209994 0x000329A0 0x00032E98 0x0001D49C 0x00023600 0x000ABEAC
0xEF8F4AA2
Exception state (sv=0x4238FA00)
PC=0x9000AF48; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0x3684C040; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x9000AE9C; R1=0xBFFFC840; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPC
*********

Mon Mar 26 03:36:57 2012
panic(cpu 1 caller 0x0009B174): mapping_alloc - empty mapping block detected at 24B0F000

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x0009B174 0x0009A15C 0x00098F78 0x00062AC8 0x000A80E0
0x000ABB80
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x46090000)
PC=0x000ACD04; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0xE7A91000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x000AB618; R1=0x2C593CD0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x000AB5D4 0x0006DD94 0x0001C2E8 0x000231DC 0x000ABEAC 0x00000000
Exception state (sv=0x42503500)
PC=0x9000AF48; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0xE7A91000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x9000AE9C; R1=0xBFFFEBC0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPC
*********

Thu Apr 19 21:51:24 2012
panic(cpu 1 caller 0x0009B174): mapping_alloc - empty mapping block detected at 2493E000

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x0009B174 0x0009A15C 0x00098F78 0x00062AC8 0x000A80E0
0x000ABB80
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x42380500)
PC=0x000ACD04; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0xE066F000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x000AB618; R1=0x2C5EBBF0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x000AB5D4 0x0006DD94 0x0001C2E8 0x0001C658 0x00022674 0x00022804
0x000A9714
Exception state (sv=0x42401500)
PC=0x9000AF48; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0xE066F000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x9000AE9C; R1=0xBFFFEF10; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPC
*********

Tue May 1 01:34:55 2012
panic(cpu 1 caller 0x0009B174): mapping_alloc - empty mapping block detected at 24980000

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x0009B174 0x0009A15C 0x00098F78 0x00062AC8 0x000A80E0
0x000ABB80
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x42516780)
PC=0x000ACD04; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0xE03FD000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x000AB618; R1=0x2C51BBF0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x000AB5D4 0x0006DD94 0x0001C2E8 0x0001C658 0x00022674 0x00022804
0x000A9714
Exception state (sv=0x42516A00)
PC=0x9000AF48; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0xE7A90000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x9000AE9C; R1=0xBFFFE8E0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPC
*********



Fri Jul 27 00:48:38 2012
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x000A4EC8): simple lock (0x02D0CE1C) deadlock detection, pc=0x0002D2B8

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000954F8 0x00095A10 0x00026898 0x000A4EC8 0x0002D2B8 0x000A4698 0x0003A954 0x0003AA24
0x00273840 0x000252AC 0x000ABFB8
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x42436C80)
PC=0x9000AF48; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x0079E000; DSISR=0x0A000000; LR=0x9000AE9C; R1=0xBFFFEBA0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.11.0: Wed Oct 10 18:26:00 PDT 2007; root:xnu-792.24.17~1/RELEASE_PPC
*********

And, last of all, over the years I have made extensive use of Apple's Knowledge Base info as a first stop in troubleshooting and Mac info. I had also visited the XLab website for info, and now will purchase his e-book on troubleshooting Tiger.

The most frustrating thing about all these panics is that they started when my Mac was brand new and I had added nothing to it, and all my phone calls to Apple tech support never fixed them.

Thank you again.

[Headrush]

Originally Posted by pywakett

Thanks again, Headrush.
I have Temp Monitor and nothing runs "hot"--i.e.--after my Mac has been running for 5 hours tonight, the CPUs are at 133.36º, HD is 95º, and 2nd HD in back slot is 99ºF. Also, I have had Memtest for a couple years and have run it periodically in loop mode for hours and it always says all is fine. I run the Apple Hardware test CD, also through 3 complete passes at a time, and all is well. I use Disk Utility on the CD and run "Verify Disk" three times in a row also, and it always says " Disk passed verification". I also use Preference Cleaner, TechTool Deluxe and have SMARTReporter running all the time. And I use Mac Janitor to do the daily, weekly, and monthly maintenance tasks. (I have Cocktail, but it crashes when I try to open it)

This would have been good information to include in the original post.

If the issues have been going back that far and happen after a completely clean install, sure seems to point at some kind of hardware issue. If the machine was new, probably would have been best to push Apple for replacement then.

At this point, not sure what to say.

The kernel logs don't point to a specific problem that I can see.

Has the kernel panic ever happened while booted from a non HD system? (From Tech Tool boot disk, OS X Boot DVD, etc)

You could always get a Linux Live CD and run that for a while and see if the problem still occurs.
If it does, at least you know it's not software related to OS X.

[pywakett]

I didn't post all that info initially because I was just looking for definitions of the terms I keep seeing in the panic logs--kind of a last-ditch effort to understand what is causing the panics.
I had the 3 yr Apple Care warranty on this Mac and tried repeatedly to get Apple to replace the logic board, or the Mac itself, but got nowhere. I've always thought it was a hardware problem. My first computer was an Apple Performa 6300CD that kept having random freezes from day one. I got nowhere with the Apple techs for the 3 yrs of my extended warranty. Then, six months after the warranty expired I received a letter from Apple saying that there WAS a problem with the logic boards in those units and they would replace it for free. They did and it completely solved the problem. So by the time I got the third panic on this Mac, my first thought was unprintable. My next thought was "logic board--AGAIN!!"
Well, thank you once again, Headrush. I will get the Linux Live CD and try that.
And no, the panics have not happened when booting from a CD or DVD--only when booting from the HD.

[Headrush]

What are the odds of having a completely different computer and logic board problems again, mighty unlucky.

This might be a stab in the dark, but maybe your electrical supply isn't very "clean".
Small fluctuations can cause electronic hardware issues. (not all hardware reacts the same)

Maybe try getting a line suppressor/conditioner etc and see if that helps.

[pywakett]

I had the same kind of luck winning the lottery! ( When I was first looking for a solution, there was a forum on Apple's web site that was dedicated to the same problem with the same Mac model, and people were wanting Apple to replace their Macs. Apparently Apple DID replace some, but other people got the same run-around that I got, even though we were all having the exact same problem! When I bought mine, this was the top-of-the-line model and had only been on the market for a month, and I NEVER expected to have the same type of problem that I had with the Performa!

As far as the electrical supply--this is the fourth place I have lived since buying this Mac. The first three were in different suburbs of Milwaukee, WI, and now I am on the central CA coast. The panics have been the same no matter where I have lived. And I have always had it plugged into a surge suppressor---several different ones through the years.

I have even--at various times--thought of replacing the processors and/or the logic board myself, but apparently no one manufactures them for this particular Mac model. They are out there for most of the other Macs of this vintage, but not this one.

Thank you once again for your time and effort to try to solve this problem. I really do appreciate it.

[Headrush]

Originally Posted by pywakett

I have even--at various times--thought of replacing the processors and/or the logic board myself, but apparently no one manufactures them for this particular Mac model. They are out there for most of the other Macs of this vintage, but not this one.

Definitely sounds like it is logic board from all you have said. Running that Live Linux CD should make it pretty conclusive.

You can get these parts but it wouldn't be worth it.
They charge a massive premium and you likely could get a newer, used Mac for similar price.

I had an old G4 that the power supply went. That model had a funky power supply from all the other G4 models.
(Supplied some extra trickle voltage lines for sleep mode or something.)

Buying a used replacement power supply was $200+
Luckily I found an adapter from a small German company that allowed you to use a standard PC power supply, but then again it was still $75 for that small thing + a PC power supply.

[pywakett]

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner--I was out of town for a couple days.

I have done some checking, and can buy a logic board, plus the dual processors for $100 or a little less. They are Apple refurbed parts with a 90 day warranty. BUT--just like when I looked previously--the logic boards available for this model Mac are all 133MHz bus. My Mac is 167MHz. Like your power supply, this model was the only one, of all the various G4s released that year, that had the 167MHz board.
Plus, most of the available boards are for a single processor--mine has dual processors. I wouldn't want to go backwards........

I have also been looking at used Macs, but for what I need it would cost almost as much as a new one, and they are no longer as expandable as the one I have. I do a lot with Photoshop, etc. so need a powerful computer. But to pay almost $2000 for a 5 year old Mac Pro--or $4000+ for a new one, which I can't afford or justify at this time.

So I will pick up that Linux Live CD for now and see what happens......

Thank you, again for all the time you have spent on this, and for the info you have given me.