[rog5]

I have a 17" flat panel 2002 vintage with 758 MB of memory. I recently installed OS 10.4, Tiger successfully. shortly after I would when booting up get a 2" X 3" black window saying in 5 languages " That I need to restart my computer and to press the restart button" Having not booted up yet I do not have a restart button. I found that by holding down the power button and holding it for 5 to 10 seconds I am able to shut off the computer, the only way to get rid of that black window. I can now press the power button and boot up the computer in a normal manner. This afore mentioned routine was not all the time only once in a while. UNTIL TODAY. I decided to run Micromat's Drive 10 because in addition to this problem my hard drive ended on the botton of my desktop every time I booted up .Not good. Drive 10 series of tests end up with Volume Structures. This test took 5 hours the report at the end indicated some minor trouble so I optioned to hit REPAIR which took an additional 5 hours. The comparison table at the end showed some items were changed. But were collored in green so i opted to make the change. Now booting up the black window shows up every time and prevents a boot up that's where I'm locked.

[sudo]

I have no idea what the problem is but it is something bad. The 2x3 message with all the different languages is called a kernal panic.

[MSM Hobbes]

Greetings rog5! I don't know for sure, so just going to ask a few background questions... What OS was on there before Tiger? Did you do a complete uninstall and clean install of Tiger? Did this ever happen before Tiger?

One guess, and based upon your post and the one from your stormchild , you might try DiskWarrior - its relatively inexpensive, esp. when compare to its potential to help many more times in the future - since I am taking a wild guess that maybe a couple bad blocks are involved, which DW may be able to fix/repair.

Couple other good utilities to try to see what kind of damage is there, and to potentially fix 'em are:
Data Rescue X
TechTool Pro
and
Disk Utility

Lastly, do you have all of the data backed up from your hard drive [HD]? Oh,,, one other thing, if not a HD issue there exists the potential that a logic board is misbehaving. I guess that the warranty is out now on your device? If not, and if you don't find answers ya need here, would highly recommend calling Apple - esp. if still under warranty [3 year plan?].

Good luck!

[ImStormy]

Hiya
An update on my fathers thread see HELP TIGER HELP. When booting up using the tiger install disk and running disk first aid the error comes up saying the disc failed to repair "invalid b-tree node size". The Drive 10 Tech Tools my father used has changed his b-tree node values. How can we reset or work around this? When he chooses his drive in the clean install window he immediately goes into a kernel panic. How can tiger be de-clawed? lol ahem ..any help??

[ImStormy]

Hes just told me that right before he gets the kernel panic window, he sees the blinking question icon. Which I know to mean it cant find the system software. But the problem it finally rests on is the changing of the b-tree node value. How can that node value be returned? Or how can we uninstall tiger? My experience with mac stops at mac os 8.6 I believe it was. I strayed and went billy boys direction and currently have a windows xp machine,which sometimes I'd like to show it the true meaning of windows lol. But this is frustrating in that Macintosh rules and PC drooles when it comes to repairing/troubleshooting one, and my lack of knowledge of the new os's like 9, 10 and tiger. Because I know this is a somewhat simple fix usually, lol . I dont mean to offend by that remark but removing a mac os is still an easy thing isnt it??

[ImStormy]

Does Tech Tool Pro have an undo feature? Or can a b-tree node value be changed back using it?

[katkin]

Hi,
I had this problem with one of our macs at work. I'm afraid that if your computer still hasn't come up and you are still getting the evil message, you could be in for some trouble. I tried a couple of quick tricks, however nothing seems to work. Do not run Norton Utils, Disk Warrior, Tech Tools or anything similar. OS Tiger is apparently self sufficient, it optimizes itself and apparently should not have to many problems with files. Running any repairing programs can cause serious problems, corrupting files and destroying your directories. On my mac it destroyed the directories, killed the hard drive. I've had to get a new hard drive. I suggest not using any repair tools because they appear to be more trouble then they are worth on Tiger.

[katkin]

Here a couple of tricks to try, to boot-up your mac. Turn your computer on and hold down, apple+option+p+r, wait for the second chime then release keys. If that doesn't work, then turn off your mac and try this when it starts up; command+option+o+f, when the white screen comes up release they keys.
Then type in:
reset-nvram (hit return)
set-defaults (hit return)
reset-all (hit return)
If that doesn't work, it may be time to call up a Tech.

[wintermute2]

I've run into invalid b-trees before. Sounds like running Drive 10 made things much worse... this is usually the case with hard drive corruption of this sort. Forget using Drive 10 or Tech Tool or Norton. You have two choices: 1.) Reformat and reinstall from a back-up. Or 2.) Use a recent version of DiskWarrior.

[grngremlin]

I know that Tiger has a higher memory requirement than previous OS. If this problem is directly linked to upgrading the OS you may check to see that you have sufficient memory installed. I have seen this happen a few times where a dim of memory went bad and the machine returned to normal when it was replaced. Just something else to checkout.

[ImStormy]

thank you very much for responding and yes im seeing that my father didnt have the memory. You think if by adding more it might clear it up? Or again how do i remove it?

[wintermute2]

I have been using macs for 21 years, from the original black&white 128K back in 1984, to a water-cooled dual G5. 758MB of RAM is plenty for most typical users... only designers working on hi-resolution Photoshop files might do better with more. The problem you described is due to corrupted volume structures... your computer cannot properly locate the data on your hard drive. Again, use Disk Warrior if you do not have a recent back-up. I am a Mac Technician and Systems Admin and have seen this type of problem before.

[grngremlin]

I somehow missed the amount of RAM you said you had... I would agree that Disk Warrior would be your best bet.

[ImStormy]

Since this is being copied and given to my father, Can you tell me what exactly he will be doing in Disk Warrior? Hes 86 and impatient lol Im hoping to get over there b4 he gets Disk Warrior. But just in case what is it he needs to do?

again ty all for responding and wintermute I thank you for summing it up.

[sslovits]

hello
i have a minimac and just upgraded to tiger 10.4, i am trying to get the rabbit radio widget
the download starts then quits.i get a error message. cannot open file.i suspect my settings may be incorrect. any suggestions.
please email me sslovitsky@opera,com
thanks