[angelize56]

Paul: The difference is those sites are adult sites geared at adults. angel

[GoneForNow]

Valley.......Plschwartz has zeroed in right on point (thanks for the compliment PL). The First Amendment is both a benefit and a burden. Its a benefit because it allows for the free exchange of ideas, thoughts and opinions (think how much we would be censored in Cuba or North Korea). Its a burden because the very benefit we enjoy also applies to the very ugly like NAMBLA, Nazis, Klu Klux Clan, Black Panthers and so forth. As adults and as parents its our responsibility to shield our children from the ugly and make sure they enjoy and understand the benefit.

The First Amendment allows you to attempt to convince me that I'm going to hell. You would be rightfully offended if the government told you that you can no longer attempt to save my soul. The government would be attempting to stifle your free speech. Unfortunately, the same logic applies to NAMBLA. Its that old saying: Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Another way to consider it. You have very strong feelings about Harry Potter promoting witchcraft or promoting the WICCA religion. If you could would you restrict the sale or ban the sale of the book? If so, why can't we ban the sale of the Bible? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, yes?

The written word so long as it doesn't promote immediate violence is well protected under our Constitution. Shakespeare, Voltaire, Hemingway all have stories which are brutal, violent and just plain nasty but in the eyes of the Constitution the writings of NAMBLA are just as protected as the writings of these three great authors. It has to be that way or we all would be subject to censorship at the whim of whomever runs the government.

[valley]

Originally posted by gbrumb:
The First Amendment is both a benefit and a burden.

The written word so long as it doesn't promote immediate violence is well protected under our Constitution. Shakespeare, Voltaire, Hemingway all have stories which are brutal, violent and just plain nasty but in the eyes of the Constitution the writings of NAMBLA are just as protected as the writings of these three great authors. It has to be that way or we all would be subject to censorship at the whim of whomever runs the government.

Shakespeare, Voltaire and Hemingway were authors....NAMBLA is not a fictitious story meant to entertain. It encourages people to legally excuse the crime of pedophilia.

and to veer off in a slightly different direction....

I believe that the role of government is to 1. restrain evil, 2. promote good and protect the law-abiding people and 3. to punish wrongdoers. You know that I get that basic belief from scripture and I believe the founders would agree with that.

Everyone is born with an innate sense of right and wrong. That knowledge is the basis of human conscience for all people. Laws are made to restrain what is wrong and lawmakers ought to understand that basic morality is crucial to a viable social order and that a culture cannot grow in a positive way without restraining violence, corruption and sexual immorality. I feel that it fails to a certain extent. That is evident to me by the amount of rampant crime. But I still am grateful for what laws there are. A poor form of government is better than no government. It frightens me to think of what might happen if government didnt exist.....and we think that people are basically good...ya right! Remove all law-enforcement of the face of the earth for a week and you'll see just how good we are.

Those who govern us are supposed to be our servants, looking out for our legitimate rights and interests. They are supposed to promote peace, justice and saftey among the people they serve...they fail to do this in the case of NAMBLA. Their failure allows these men a legal voice to promote pedophlia.

Government is supposed to punish those who do wrong. People who break the law ought to have a healthy fear of what the law will do to them if they get caught....but because the punishment is so lax and people get away with so much more and rely on slick lawyers to reduce their sentences.....many many of them have no fear and they are made even bolder by how they can escape justice by using the law. And the prison system in a joke.....there is no way for a criminal to make restitution for their crimes because prisons themselves encourage brutality, homosexuality and many other kinds of crime. It makes no sense to me. Prison is not a deterrant for many so whats the answer?

[brushmaster1]

Quote:

"Everyone is born with an innate sense of right and wrong"

I'm afraid that is incorrect! We are not born with any innate morals...they have to be taught! Children get their moral values from the world around them...the media, their peers, and...most importantly...from their parents.

If a child was raised by robots and never had any interaction with other humans, he/she would grow up to be completely immoral. The ONLY thing that would matter to such a person would be their own gratification.

We learn morals through deliberate teaching, observation, interaction with others, by example...but without any of tyhese, there would be no morals!

[valley]

Originally posted by brushmaster1:
I'm afraid that is incorrect! We are not born with any innate morals...they have to be taught!

I said that we are all born with an innate knowledge of right and wrong....but I also believe that because of original sin, we are prone to do what is wrong. Yes, society shapes that one way or another but in essense, we choose to go against what we are taught due to the nature that is in us. We dont have to do bad things, do we? So why do we?

Have the members of NAMBLA been taught by society to have the desires they have? If you say no....then how do you explain it? If you and society believes that they are perverted because other people have taught you this...then does that leave the possibility in your mind that maybe they arent so wrong in what they do? Why do you believe it is wrong to have sex with boys, Bill? Only because society has taught you that it is? Dont you see? Thats exactly the point NAMBLA is trying to make!

We learn morals through deliberate teaching, observation, interaction with others, by example...but without any of tyhese, there would be no morals!

Ok then. Lets say that man is indeed born morally neutral and that they dont have any predilection toward good or evil and that it is also true that social interaction alone dictates how they will believe.

ok. Then that begs the question: How did society get corrupt in the first place? Why do so many people do wrong? Its widely accepted that no one is perfect and we ALL do bad. If everyone was born in a state of moral neutrality then why hasnt anyone grown up to never do any wrong? If we can teach people to be good all of the time, how come they arent?

How did man develop the notion that murder was wrong? Where did the notion of love originally come from? Didnt he have to be taught by someone else? So if there was never a moral being in the beginning to teach what was wrong and right, how did we ever learn?

[Capricorn36]

NO totally opposed to same sex marriages. Why do two male or females want same sex marriages. Because it affords ligitimacy to them. Plus, it provides tax breaks, food stamps, etc. etc. from tax payers. That does not say they don't pay taxes however when you recognize such a union why just between two why not three or four then any group who want to share an appartment house or other living accommodations can all have the benefits of marriage (if there are any).

Hmmm! maybe two guys or gals living under a same sex marriage share many more things in common than a husband and wife.

[brushmaster1]

There is nothing inherently wrong with same sex relationships. It is only society (which is still in the dark ages concerning all matters sexual) which frowns on anything that doesn't bring more children into this badly over-populated world.
I disagree vehemently with NAMBLA, not because they espouse gay relationships, but because they advocate initiating such relationships with people who are too young to make an informed decision concerning such relationships.

[brushmaster1]

It says so in the Bible...written by a member of one of the most repressive and narrow-minded cultures to ever exist!

[Wino]

Originally posted by Chattan:
Not only is homosexuality an unnatural immoral sexual perversion, it is forbidden by God.

Indeed it even says so in The Bible.

Would seem the homo's have little to fear, since god is a figment of the human imagination - no more, no less.

While the bible may be a semi attempt of recording early man's history, an interesting read, any references to god are no more significant than the sun gods were to the Incans. Come to think of it, too bad the Incan religion isn't the predominant one of modern history - would probably be a much more loving, tolerant and peacful world. Homo, hetero or bi- sexual have nothing to fear except other humans. Would be a sad, monotonous life if the missionary position was the only one anyone could use for sex, and procreation the only reason for sex, without fear of retribution from a god. It's bad enough just worrying about John Ashcroft, who thinks he is a god - better chance he would screw up your life than an imaginary ogre of a god.

[plschwartz]

Wino:
Ashcroft when he has to pee probably carries a pair of tongs to take out his dong so he won't pollute himself

[Wino]

Originally posted by plschwartz:
Wino:
Ashcroft when he has to pee probably carries a pair of tongs to take out his dong so he won't pollute himself

I have it on good authority that Ashcroft squats to pee, doesn't poop or fart, and is full of-you-know-what!

Also, heard a rumor that he would not let his kids go see the movie Peter Pan, as he thought it was about someone washing off their privates!

[angelize56]

UPDATE:

Senators Debate Constitutional Gay Marriage Ban

POSTED: 12:27 p.m. EDT September 5, 2003

WASHINGTON -- Senators have heard opposing views on the need for a constitutional amendment to block courts from legalizing gay marriage.

Several witnesses told a congressional hearing that marriage should only be the union of a man and a woman because children need a mother and father.

But a man whose gay partner was in one of the jets hijacked on Sept. 11, 2001, said that without a marriage license it was hard for him to settle inheritance and other legal issues.

Sen. John Cornyn said Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim groups have urged him to help preserve the traditional definition of marriage.

But Sen. Edward Kennedy argued that a constitutional ban on gay marriage would violate the rights of churches that perform same-sex weddings.

[LANMaster]

Originally posted by plschwartz:
Wino:
Ashcroft when he has to pee probably carries a pair of tongs to take out his dong so he won't pollute himself

Originally posted by Wino:
I have it on good authority that Ashcroft squats to pee, doesn't poop or fart, and is full of-you-know-what!

Also, heard a rumor that he would not let his kids go see the movie Peter Pan, as he thought it was about someone washing off their privates!

TSG reaching a new low?

I would like to pick up on some things that are posted here:

"The Catholic Church, in particular, legitimized same-gender unions for over 1,500 years. This tradition was halted only in the 1800s"

"Sen. John Cornyn said Catholic, Protestant, Jewish & Muslim groups have urged him to help preserve the traditional definition of marriage.

But Sen. Edward Kennedy (Edit: Catholic) argued that a constitutional ban on gay marriage would violate the rights of churches that perform same-sex weddings."

Homosexuals hide behind the viel of "religion", without religion, they would have nothing to hide behind. They could be treated and put in prison with the other dregs of society.

But because they hide behind their religion, they are often tolerated & ignored & the problem escalates until it explodes.Only then does the world react to this disgusting practice.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the Kingdom of God."

If you think God just does not understand the motives of homosexuals then youre wrong. Romans 1:26 and 27 tells us in no uncertain terms that God understands homosexuals completely and identifies their activity as a mark of depravity.

I agree wholeheartedly, as this is SUPPOSED to be a worldly paradise where men love women & vice-versa.

Eliminate religion and we can eliminate senseless racial violence.
Eliminate religion and we can eliminate the vast majority of wars.
Eliminate religion and we can eliminate homosexual depravity.

Eliminate religion and we can eliminate crime.

[Gibble]

lol, you say you are going on vacation in one thread, then start up in another...are you leaving or not?