[CyBerAliEn]

By Chattan on 9/5/03 11:55pm US Pacific:

I would like to pick up on some things that are posted here:

"The Catholic Church, in particular, legitimized same-gender unions for over 1,500 years. This tradition was halted only in the 1800s"

"Sen. John Cornyn said Catholic, Protestant, Jewish & Muslim groups have urged him to help preserve the traditional definition of marriage.

But Sen. Edward Kennedy (Edit: Catholic) argued that a constitutional ban on gay marriage would violate the rights of churches that perform same-sex weddings."

Homosexuals hide behind the viel of "religion", without religion, they would have nothing to hide behind. They could be treated and put in prison with the other dregs of society.

But because they hide behind their religion, they are often tolerated & ignored & the problem escalates until it explodes.Only then does the world react to this disgusting practice.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the Kingdom of God."

If you think God just does not understand the motives of homosexuals then youre wrong. Romans 1:26 and 27 tells us in no uncertain terms that God understands homosexuals completely and identifies their activity as a mark of depravity.

I agree wholeheartedly, as this is SUPPOSED to be a worldly paradise where men love women & vice-versa.

Eliminate religion and we can eliminate senseless racial violence.
Eliminate religion and we can eliminate the vast majority of wars.
Eliminate religion and we can eliminate homosexual depravity.

Eliminate religion and we can eliminate crime.

Are you going to start up with the gay bashing in this thread too? And then delete all your posts sometime later?

In another recent thread (Dantes Inferno Hell Test or such)... Chattan got in a bit of a debate with me and several others. Somehow Chattan got into bashing gays. He made a post about a friend who's kids were both gay, so he committed suicide; and Chattan would have prefered his kids committed suicide because of the disgrace on the father or something like that.

Are you going to start up the same thing here now?


Sorry if I'm not too happy about this, lol... but Chattan really got on my nerves in that other thread for clearly being the intolerent bigot that he is, and then deleting every post he made to get get rid of the evidence.

I removed all of the posts because you cannot have a moral argument with the immoral.

The immoral are both corrupt & irrational and you cannot rationalise with the irrational.

On the other hand the moral are rational, so it would be better to rationalise with the moral, as they are BOTH rational AND moral as well.

The irrational demoralise the rational and the immoral demoralise the moral, therefore it can easily be seen that the rational and moral can easily be demoralised by the irrational and immoral ... if we (decent moral people) allow them to do so. Corruption demoralises everyone.

This is a social choice and requires decent laws made by decent people with which to GOVERN a decent society.

Allowing the world to be flooded with pornography and wild-eyed religious fanatics does NOT suit there being a moral climate in which rational people can live normally.

I do NOT want this planet to be ruined by corrupt governments making laws which suit a minority of homosexuals and which bring disgrace on everyone.

God is all-seeing and all-knowing, you are as an open book, there is NO hiding place.

This is also the reason why I prefer science to religion.

Religion crucifies, science instructs. Of the two science IS the better teacher.

So-called "religion" is demoralising, science is enlightening.

[plschwartz]

Chattan:
Thank you for removing your previous posts. I for one encourage you to go the full monty and remove this last one also.

The poem says that straight is the gate and charged with punishment the scroll
I do hope on Judgement day you do not get a rude shock

I would just like to remind you that the question title is:

Same Sex Marriages: Yes? No? Why?

You ask for the answer and I give it to you.

But, as it does not suit you, you reject it.

More I cannot do, except to say that if you can come to an understanding of God through science then ALL the abuse of people which has been perpetrated by "religion" can end.

As I am not by nature evil of myself then I would like to know who it is who is evil toward me.

Religion is the evil, for there is no evil in science.

From Dr. Steven Weinberg:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Science should be taught ignoring religion. One of the social functions of science is to free humans from superstition."

"The whole history of the last thousands of years has been a history of religious persecutions, wars and crusades."

"I hope this long sad story, fueled by the progression of priests, ministers and rabbis will come to an end. If science can contribute to this end, it will be the most important contribution we can make, that we see no more of priests, ministers and rabbis. Religion is complete nonsense and terribly damaging to human civilization."

There is NOBODY that I know who wishes to persecute normal people who are law-abiding.

That anyone should hide the Truth is like hiding the Light under a bushel.

But ONLY the Truth and the Light shall set you Free

"CyberAlien"

Sorry if I'm not too happy about this, lol... but Chattan really got on my nerves in that other thread for clearly being the intolerent bigot that he is, and then deleting every post he made to get rid of the evidence.

I am NOT a racist but I do not like homosexuality and sectarianism.

I do NOT see that "the church" has any "right" before God to perform any immoral "ceremony".

It is said that, "Bad laws are the worst form of tyranny."

You should examine closely just who the tyrants are, and who it is who is irresponsibly changing the law and interfering.

Btw, I deleted the posts in deference to "Baby-Bug" and told her so.

[Wet Chicken]

Hi Chattan. Could you please answer me two easy questions?

You seem to put your faith in science rather than religion. Is that true ?

Yes or no.

You seem to be anti-gay. Is that true?

Yes or no.

Thank you.

Hi Chattan. Could you please answer me two easy questions?

You seem to put your faith in science rather than religion. Is that true ?

Yes or no.

You seem to be anti-gay. Is that true?

Yes or no.

Thank you.

Question 1. Yes, I put my faith in God too, but prefer a scientific understanding of God to a religious one.

Question 2. Yes, I AM anti-homosexual. I wish that they could live their lives a different way.

I was attacked by a homo-sexual when I was young. I had never come across this condition before. Happily I came to no harm.

Had I known what the hidden effect would be and been warned adequately I would probably have taken his life to defend mine.

In self-defense.

[CyBerAliEn]

By Chattan:

I removed all of the posts because you cannot have a moral argument with the immoral.

The immoral are both corrupt & irrational and you cannot rationalise with the irrational.

On the other hand the moral are rational, so it would be better to rationalise with the moral, as they are BOTH rational AND moral as well.

The irrational demoralise the rational and the immoral demoralise the moral, therefore it can easily be seen that the rational and moral can easily be demoralised by the irrational and immoral ... if we (decent moral people) allow them to do so. Corruption demoralises everyone.

This is a social choice and requires decent laws made by decent people with which to GOVERN a decent society.

Allowing the world to be flooded with pornography and wild-eyed religious fanatics does NOT suit there being a moral climate in which rational people can live normally.

I do NOT want this planet to be ruined by corrupt governments making laws which suit a minority of homosexuals and which bring disgrace on everyone.

God is all-seeing and all-knowing, you are as an open book, there is NO hiding place.

This is also the reason why I prefer science to religion.

Religion crucifies, science instructs. Of the two science IS the better teacher.

So-called "religion" is demoralising, science is enlightening.

By Chattan:

I would just like to remind you that the question title is:

Same Sex Marriages: Yes? No? Why?

You ask for the answer and I give it to you.

But, as it does not suit you, you reject it.

More I cannot do, except to say that if you can come to an understanding of God through science then ALL the abuse of people which has been perpetrated by "religion" can end.

As I am not by nature evil of myself then I would like to know who it is who is evil toward me.

Religion is the evil, for there is no evil in science.

From Dr. Steven Weinberg:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Science should be taught ignoring religion. One of the social functions of science is to free humans from superstition."

"The whole history of the last thousands of years has been a history of religious persecutions, wars and crusades."

"I hope this long sad story, fueled by the progression of priests, ministers and rabbis will come to an end. If science can contribute to this end, it will be the most important contribution we can make, that we see no more of priests, ministers and rabbis. Religion is complete nonsense and terribly damaging to human civilization."

There is NOBODY that I know who wishes to persecute normal people who are law-abiding.

That anyone should hide the Truth is like hiding the Light under a bushel.

But ONLY the Truth and the Light shall set you Free

OK... first and foremost... you cannot come to an understanding of god through science.

By Chattan:

"CyberAlien"

Sorry if I'm not too happy about this, lol... but Chattan really got on my nerves in that other thread for clearly being the intolerent bigot that he is, and then deleting every post he made to get rid of the evidence.

I am NOT a racist but I do not like homosexuality and sectarianism.

I do NOT see that "the church" has any "right" before God to perform any immoral "ceremony".

It is said that, "Bad laws are the worst form of tyranny."

You should examine closely just who the tyrants are, and who it is who is irresponsibly changing the law and interfering.

Btw, I deleted the posts in deference to "Baby-Bug" and told her so.

Again... you seem to completely lack the understanding of the word bigot. Being a bigot does not mean that you are specifically intolerant to ones race. As I had to do in the previous thread, here's the definition, AGAIN:

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

Now if you can't honestly admit that you match the definition of the word, then your even more blinded than I thought.

By Chattan:

Question 1. Yes, I put my faith in God too, but prefer a scientific understanding of God to a religious one.

Question 2. Yes, I AM anti-homosexual. I wish that they could live their lives a different way.

I was attacked by a homo-sexual when I was young. I had never come across this condition before. Happily I came to no harm.

Had I known what the hidden effect would be and been warned adequately I would probably have taken his life to defend mine.

In self-defense.

Let's see... you can't have a scientific understanding of god.

You were attacked by a homosexual; is this why you hate them?

What in the world do you mean by "this condition"?

"hidden effect"?

Oh this is good... you would have taken his life by decision for the sole reason that he was gay.

"OK... first and foremost... you cannot come to an understanding of God through science."

Yes, you can. In FACT most scientists have.

According to you, if someone believes in God you would term them a bigot as they differ from those who do not believe in God.

Clearly inverse logic.

God is known to abhor homosexuality. Someone who is homosexual obviously does not believe in God sufficiently to behave otherwise.

The definition concludes by saying:

" ... one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion."

I "obstinately" believe in God. However I am NOT blind to the fact that this is His Creation. I am devoted to all beliefs which believe in ONE GOD and to ALL "party" members who share the SAME belief and who express the SAME "opinion".

I do not attend church as I am Freethinking and wish to avoid sectarianism and therefore AVOID being bigoted towards those who do.

I have my own form of observance simply by acknowledging His presence.

[Wet Chicken]

Originally posted by Chattan:
Question 1. Yes, I put my faith in God too, but prefer a scientific understanding of God to a religious one.

Question 2. Yes, I AM anti-homosexual. I wish that they could live their lives a different way

Thank you Chattan for answering those two simple questions.

All you need to do is a little bit more of research, and you will understand (and not be fearful of) gay people. First you need to understand this, gay people don't just wake up one day and say "oh, I think I'll be gay so that I can be persecuted for the rest of my life". They have no more choice in the matter than you have in not being gay. You can understand how a person is born with the characteristics of being short, you can understand how a person is born with the characteristics of having brown hair, you can understand how a person is born with the characteristics of being thin, so why can't you understand that a person can be born with the characteristics of being attracted to one sex or the other? It's all controlled by your genes, and since God decides which ones which people get, it is Gods choice who is born "gay" and who isn't. By the stroke of Gods hand you could have easily have been born with a gay preference. This is for God to decide. If God is OK with it, and you want to follow in Gods example then why are you putting labels on people who have no choice in the matter? Do you say bad things about handicapped people? It's all pretty much the same thing, it's just that God is using different colors from his pallet to paint each person with

I was attacked by a homo-sexual when I was young. I had never come across this condition before

This is a totally different situation. The reason for this is because of your fears! You know when I was a kid I was bitten by a chihuahua. It just jumped right up and bite me in the crotch! To this day I hate chihuahua's They're like little domesticated rats! But that doesn't make chihuahua's a bad animal, it just means that deep inside I am fearful of them, and so to protect myself I try to always stay away from them.

Certainly what happened to you as a child had a big impact on your mind and your emotions. You equate gays with this incident that happened to you. But you need to keep in mind and remember that not every gay in the world attached you on that day. It was one sicko who was a sicko for another reason other than that he was gay. Was he short? Fat? Have red hair? Then why aren't you against short, fat red haired people? You need to understand what happened to you on that day, and try to examine it from OUTSIDE of yourself so that you won't allow your biases to distract you. Once you understand that it was just one sicko that attacked you, then maybe you can stop hating everyone with all of his characteristics, and just focus on that one sicko

Before you try to examine what happened to you on that day, take a deep breath! Your subconscious is going to have to relive that day all over again, and that is exactly what it has been trying to avoid all of these years.

God bless

"Oh this is good... you would have taken his life by decision for the sole reason that he was gay."

Do you agree that a child, under the age of majority, should have the right to self-defense?

Do you think that it is right for children, under the age of majority, to be attacked by grown and often violent adults who would want to rape them or abuse them in other ways? e.g. Prostitution/pornography/slavery/torture/multilation/murder.

Do you think that it would be a better thing if society were to PROTECT children from such abuse?

What, in your opinion, should the LAW do?

Should it raise the age of consent to the same age as the age of majority or lower it?

If you think it should be lower, then how low do you think it should go?

I am assuming a GLOBAL age of majority of twenty-one.

If you were making the LAW what would you do after careful consideration as to the RIGHT thing to do and having a CLEAR notion of right and wrong, according to your moral conscience?

Remember that the correct form of Freethinking is freedom of belief in One God, and not freedom of action, and that it is very much a matter of moral conscience.

[Wet Chicken]

Originally posted by CyBerAliEn:
you cannot come to an understanding of god through science.

OK this simpleton remark couldn't be more wrong or ignorant.

The fact is that God is probably the purest of all sciences, and we as humans will probably never truly understand it.

[angelize56]

If God is OK with it, and you want to follow in Gods example then why are you putting labels on people who have no choice in the matter?

Where do you get that homosexuality is ok with God in any way if that's what you're saying here? Just curious. Maybe I misread your statement? Is God ok with the perverted homosexuals who belong to NAMBLA? I think not! He wants all sinners to repent and become responsible for their own actions. It's fortunate that all of us who sin in any way (believers of course) are only accountable to God in the end, not anyone else. But people will still have their own individual opinions of homosexuality and any other thing God considers sinning. I guess it's hard to try not to judge others lest we also be judged. It's very hard NOT to judge pedophiles, homosexual or otherwise, or those who murder children. Take care. angel

The fact is that God is probably the purest of all sciences, and we as humans will probably never truly understand it.

You shouldn't underestimate others capacity to understand God through science.

I do purely through science, as the understanding which this form of proof gives equates precisely with the idea of being The Light and The Truth.

The Light is the CLEAR Light of understanding.

The Truth excludes ALL forms of trickery, lies and deceptions.

Given this PURE Truth, I fail to understand why it is that religion seems to thrive on trickery.

To me, religion seems impure, whilst science IS pure.

The scientific Truth is a golden clear enlightening, the religious equivalent of which is known as The Golden Fleece.

Angelize56, So Port Huron, Michigan. Been there, LONG ago, en route to Calumet City, Chicago. Used to know a nurse who worked at Hope.

Nice countryside drives along Lakeshore. Wish I could go back that way again.

I really miss that Great Lakes scenery, with everyone being so welcoming, especially around Thanksgiving.