There's no such thing as a stupid question, but they're the easiest to answer.
JoinTour
Login
 
Civilized Debate
Tag Cloud
audio blue blue screen boot bsod compaq computer cpu crash dell drivers dvd error excel firefox format freeze freezing hard drive hardware install internet internet explorer kb951748 lan laptop loss of internet malware memory motherboard network networking outlook outlook 2007 problem restart screen security slow sound trojan update virus vista windows windows xp winxp wireless zonealarm zone alarm
Search
Search in:
 
Advanced Search
Tech Support Guy Forums > Community > Civilized Debate >
Unanswered 9/11 Questions


Computer problem? Tech Support Guy is completely free -- paid for by advertisers and donations. Click here to join today! If you're new to Tech Support Guy, we highly recommend that you visit our Guide for New Members. Enjoy!

 
Thread Tools
eggplant43's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 12,709 posts.
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Billings, MT
Experience: Been there, done that, still learning.
11-Sep-2003, 08:52 PM #1
Unanswered 9/11 Questions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted on Thu, Sep. 11, 2003



WHY DON'T WE HAVE ANSWERS TO THESE 9/11 QUESTIONS?

By WILLIAM BUNCH
bunchw@phillynews.com

NO EVENT IN recent history has been written about, talked about, or watched and rewatched as much as the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 - two years ago today.

Not only was it the deadliest terrorist strike inside America, but the hijackings and attacks on New York City's World Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington were also a seminal event for an information-soaked media age of Internet access and 24- hour news.

So, why after 730 days do we know so little about what really happened that day?

No one knows where the alleged mastermind of the attack is, and none of his accomplices has been convicted of any crime. We're not even sure if the 19 people identified by the U.S. government as the suicide hijackers are really the right guys.

Who put deadly anthrax in the mail? Where were the jet fighters that were supposed to protect America's skies that morning? And what was the role of our supposed allies Saudi Arabia and Pakistan?

There are dozens of unanswered questions about the 2001 attacks, but we've narrowed them down to 20 - or 9 plus 11.

1. What did National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice tell President Bush about al Qaeda threats against the United States in a still-secret briefing on Aug. 6, 2001?

Rice has suggested in vague terms that the president's brief - prepared daily by the CIA - included information that morning about Osama bin Laden's methods of operation - including hijacking. But when the congressional committee probing Sept. 11 asked to see the report, Bush claimed executive privilege and refused to release it.

2. Why did Attorney General John Ashcroft and some Pentagon officials cancel commercial-airline trips before Sept. 11?

On July 26, 2001 - 47 days before the Sept. 11 attacks - CBS News reported that Ashcroft was flying expensive charters rather than commercial flights because of a "threat assessment" by the FBI. CBS said, "Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term." Newsweek later reported that on Sept. 10, 2001, "a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."

Did either Ashcroft or the Pentagon have advance information about a 9/11-style attack and, if so, why wasn't this shared with the American public?

3. Who made a small fortune "shorting" airline and insurance stocks before Sept. 11?

On Sept. 10, 2001, the trading ratio on United Airlines was 25 times greater than normal at the Pacific Exchange, where traders could buy "puts," high-risk bets that the price of a company's stock will fall sharply. The next day, two hijacked United jetliners crashed, causing the company's shares to plummet and ultimately leading the airline into bankruptcy. CBS News later reported that at intelligence agencies, "alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the U.S. stock options market" on the day before the attacks.

The unusual stock trading suggests that someone with a sophisticated knowledge of finance also had advance information about the impending attack. But two years later, no one has been charged in this matter, and officials have not indicated even if the probe is still open.

4. Are all 19 people identified by the government as participants in the Sept. 11 attacks really the hijackers?

Probably not. Just 10 days after the attacks, a report by the British Broadcasting Corp. said that some of the supposed hijackers identified by the FBI appeared to be alive and well. The BBC story said Abdelaziz al-Omari, named as the pilot who crashed the jet into the World Trade Center's North Tower, was reported by Saudi authorities to be working as an electrical engineer. He reported his passport had been stolen in Denver in 1995. Saudi officials said it was possible that another three people whose names appear on the FBI list also are alive.

The article, which can be read at Unanswered Questions, makes a persuasive case that another man was posing as Ziad Jarrah, the alleged pilot of hijacked Flight 93, which crashed in Shanksville, Pa. So why did this story line vanish into thin air?

5. Did any of the hijackers smuggle guns on board as reported in calls from both Flight 11 and Flight 93?

Quite possibly. An internal Federal Aviation Administration memo written at 5:30 p.m. on the day of the attacks said that a passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 11 - Israeli-American Daniel Lewin - had been shot to death by a single bullet before the jet slammed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center. The FAA insists the memo was a mistaken "first draft," even though the

alleged shooting is described in great detail.

Aboard Flight 93, passenger Thomas Burnett told his wife, Deena, in a 9:27 a.m. cell-phone call: "The hijackers have already knifed a guy, one of them has a gun, and they are telling us there is a bomb on board."

Why has this angle of Sept. 11 not been investigated in more detail?

6. Why did the NORAD air defense network fail to intercept the four hijacked jets?

During the depths of the Cold War, Americans went to bed with the somewhat reassuring belief that jet fighters would intercept anyone launching a first strike against the United States. That myth was shattered on 9/11, when four hijacked-jetliners-turned-into-deadly-missiles cruised the American skies with impunity for nearly two hours.

Why did the North American Aerospace Defense Command seem unaware of literally dozens of warnings that hijacked jetliners could be used as weapons? Why does NORAD claim it did not learn that Flight 11 - the first jet to strike the World Trade Center about 8:45 a.m. - had been hijacked until 8:40 a.m., some 25 minutes after the transponder was shut off and an astounding 15 minutes after flight controllers heard a hijacker say, "We have some planes..."?

Why didn't the fighters that were finally scrambled at Otis Air Force Base in Massachusetts and Langley Air Force Base in Virginia fly at top, supersonic speeds? Why didn't fighters immediately take off from Andrews Air Force Base, just

outside Washington, D.C.? Why was nothing done to intercept American Airlines Flight 77, which struck the Pentagon, when officials knew it had been had been hijacked some 47 minutes earlier?

And why has no one been disciplined for the worst breakdown in national defense since Pearl Harbor?

7. Why did President Bush continue reading a story to Florida grade-schoolers for nearly a half-hour during the worst attack on America in its history?

In arguably the greatest understatement in U.S. history, Bush told a questioner at a California town-hall meeting in January 2002 that 9/11 "was an interesting day." Interesting, indeed. In the two years since the attacks, questions have only grown about the president's bizarre behavior that morning, when he was informed in a Sarasota classroom that America was under attack.

"I couldn't stop watching the president sitting there, listening to second-graders, while my husband was burning in a building," World Trade Center widow Lorie van Auken, a leader of relatives of Sept. 11 victims who have raised questions about the attacks, told Gail Sheehy in the New York Observer.

Why did Bush read a children's story about a pet goat and stay in the classroom for more than a half-hour after the first plane struck the World Trade Center and roughly 15 minutes after Chief of Staff Andrew Card told him that it had been a deliberate attack? Why didn't he take more decisive action, and why wasn't he hustled to a secure area while the attacks were clearly still under way?

Conspiracy advocates have cited these strange lapses as evidence that Bush knew about the attacks ahead of time, but why would anyone with advance knowledge appear so clueless?

For a fascinating read on the subject, go to: www.unansweredquestions.org /timeline/main/essayaninteresting day.html.

8. How did Flight 93 crash in western Pennsylvania?

The most popular version - that heroic passengers who fought with the hijackers successfully stormed the cockpit - has become so widely accepted that people were jarred last month when an Associated Press report seemed to contradict it. The AP story took one line out of a congressional report and wrote that the FBI now believes the hijackers crashed the plane on purpose.

Many were dismayed that the FBI would change its story, but the government had never put out an official story. Some unidentified government officials had first floated the hijackers-crashed-the-plane-on-purpose theory in late 2001.

Based solely on circumstantial evidence from several cell-phone calls made by passengers, most of the public and the mainstream media have come to believe that the plane crashed because of a struggle between the passengers and the hijackers.

Meanwhile, the FBI reportedly has enough hard information about what really happened on Flight 93 to have worked up a flight-simulation video. But that video, the cockpit audio recording and the hard data from the other "black box," the flight data recorder, is still top secret.

The issue symbolizes the government's continuing refusal to release information about what really happened on Sept. 11. Even some relatives of Flight 93 victims are growing unhappy that more information has not been publicized.

9. Was Zacarias Moussaoui really "the 20th hijacker"?

Almost certainly not, even though the allegation has been repeated hundreds of times in the media. The Moroccan native, who has been in custody since his August 2001 arrest on immigration charges after he attended a flight-training school in Minneapolis, has admitted that he is a member of al Qaeda and wanted to commit terrorist acts in America. But he arrived here much later than the Sept. 11 hijackers and reportedly had no contacts with them.

The issue is important because some family members of Sept. 11 victims who are seeking information about what happened that day have been turned down because of the ongoing Moussaoui case.

10. Where are the planes' "black boxes"?

Nothing is more critical to learning about air disasters than the so-called "black boxes." They are the 30-minute audio recordings of cockpit chatter and the fight-data inputs which show the speed, direction and operational condition of the plane, and which are encased in material designed to withstand a high-speed crash. Yet the government has continued to keep a lid of secrecy on the black boxes from Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon, and from Flight 93.

FBI Director Robert Mueller has said Flight 77's data recorder provided altitude, speed, headings and other information, but the voice recorder contained nothing useful. Why not? Why not release the information to the public? Why has a docile mainstream media not demanded this information?

And how come none of the four "indestructible" black boxes was recovered from the World Trade Center, even as investigators said that a passport belonging to one of the hijackers had been found in the rubble, undamaged, a week after the towers's collapse?

11. Why were Donald Rumsfeld and other U.S. officials so quick to link Saddam Hussein to the attacks?

CBS News reported that the defense secretary was making notes about invading Iraq even before the fires from Flight 77 had been extinguished on the other side of the Pentagon. Rumsfeld wrote that he wanted "best info fast. Judge whether good enough [to] hit S.H." - Saddam Hussein - "at the same time. Not only UBL" - Osama bin Laden. He added: "Go massive. Sweep it all up. Things related and not."

Rumsfeld and a number of other Bush administration officials have ties to a once-obscure policy group called the Project for a New American Century. In a 2000 white paper, PNAC - which had long urged an American invasion of Iraq - said that for the United States to assert itself properly as the world's lone superpower, "some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor" - would be required.

That new Pearl Harbor came - two years ago today.

12.Why did 7 World Trade Center collapse?

7 World Trade Center, a 47-story building, was not struck by an aircraft on Sept. 11, yet the building mysteriously collapsed at 5:20 p.m. that afternoon. Apparently debris from the jetliner attacks on the adjacent twin towers started a fire at No. 7. But as the New York Times noted: "No building like it, a modern, steel-reinforced high-rise, had ever collapsed because of an uncontrolled fire." Investigators have speculated that excess diesel

fuel for emergency generators fanned the flames, but the full story may never be known.

Some questions also have lingered about why the two 110-story towers collapsed. But investigators think the burning jet fuel - compounded by paper-and-electronics-laden cubicles and possibly insulation matter - burned long enough, at temperatures exceeding 1,000 degrees, to weaken the structural steel.

13. Why did the Bush administration lie about dangerously high levels of toxins and hazardous particles after the WTC collapse?

Because apparently some White House officials felt that the health of the American economy and Wall Street was more important than the health of New York City residents who lived nearby. For example, on Sept. 16, 2001, a draft press release from the Environmental Protection Agency said: "Recent samples of dust gathered by OSHA on Water Street showed higher levels of asbestos in EPA tests." That was deleted and replaced with this: "The new samples confirm previous reports that ambient air quality meets OSHA standards and consequently is not a cause for public concern."

A key figure in the changes was the head of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, who - you can't make this stuff up - is a lawyer who formerly represented the asbestos industry.

In fact, the EPA told workers and residents that it was safe to return to lower Manhattan at a time when some test results had not been analyzed and other key tests had not even been performed. The outcome? Key medical professionals say thousands of New Yorkers have developed respiratory illnesses associated with exposure to the dust. Symptoms include periodic gasping for air, a choking sensation and unusual sensitivity to airborne irritants, apparently from a type of "occupational asthma" called Reactive Airways Disease Syndrome.

14. Where is Dick Cheney's undisclosed location?

We'll never know, but a widely reported rumor was that it was right here in the Keystone State. The speculation is the vice president spent the days after the attack at Site R, a secretive Cold War-era site, also known as Alternate Joint Communications Center, deep inside Raven Rock Mountain. The mountain is in western Pennsylvania, near Waynesboro.

15. What happened to the more than $1 billion that Americans donated after the attack?

The largest recipient, the American Red Cross, says it already has used $741 million from its Liberty Fund to help more than 55,000 families cope with the death of loved ones, serious injuries, physical and mental health concerns, financial loss, homelessness and other effects of the attacks.

Of that, $596 million was in the form of direct financial assistance to families of those killed or seriously injured, as well as to displaced workers, residents and emergency personnel who were seriously affected. Depending on individual needs, this financial assistance included up to a full year's living expenses, estate and special-circumstances cash grants, and more.

16. What was the role of Pakistan's spy agency in the Sept. 11 attacks and the subsequent murder of U.S. journalist Daniel Pearl?

The idea that Pakistan is considered a leading American ally in the war on terror is both ironic and a bit disturbing when one considers that there are proven links between Pakistan's intelligence agency, the notorious ISI, and the Taliban, as well as likely ties to al Qaeda and bin Laden.

In October 2001, the Wall Street Journal and many reputable news organizations in South Asia reported that the head of the ISI, Lt. Gen. Mahmoud Ahmad, was fired after being linked to a $100,000 payment that had been wired to al Qaeda hijacker Mohamed Atta in America to pay for the Sept. 11 attacks. The New York Times said the intelligence service even used al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan to train covert operatives for use in a war of terror against India.

In recent weeks, two troubling reports have emerged. The highly regarded French journalist Bernard-Henri Levy has written that Wall Street Journal reporter Pearl had been murdered by elements of the ISI because he'd learned that al Qaeda "is largely controlled by the Pakistani secret service" and that Islamic extremists control the nation's nuclear weapons. And investigative reporter Gerald Posner writes that bin Laden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah not only revealed a link to top Saudis but also to high-ranking Pakistani air force officer Mushaf Ali Mir. Mir, who is said to have cut protection deals in secret meetings with bin Laden, died earlier this year in a plane crash that also killed his wife and closest confidants.

17. Who killed five Americans with anthrax?

Actually, it's not clear whether this question should even be on this list. Two years later, it's not known whether the anthrax-laden letters that killed five Americans from Connecticut to Florida, and targeted some leading Democratic pols and TV news anchors, had anything to do with the Sept. 11 attacks. Indeed, the list of potential suspects - al Qaeda terrorists, Saddam, crackpot U.S. scientists - hasn't been narrowed down. Our government's utter cluelessness about a reign of terror that rattled the nation and dominated the headlines in fall 2001 is an investigative failure of epic proportions.

One man, a former Army biomedical researcher named Steven J. Hatfill, has been labeled "a person of interest" by the FBI, but nothing definitive has linked Hatfill to the crime. Just this summer, federal investigators drained a Frederick, Md., pond where they speculated the anthrax letters might have been assembled, but tests of soil samples taken after the draining yielded no evidence of biological weapons. And now Hatfill has sued the government for invading his privacy - in a case that may never be solved.

18. What happened to the probe into C-4 explosives found in a Philadelphia bus terminal in fall 2001?

Do you remember this front-page headline from Oct. 20, 2001: "In Phila. locker, a lethal find; Explosive 'would probably have leveled' bus depot." You can be forgiven if you don't. There's been no mention in local media since late 2001 of the alarming discovery of one-third of a pound of lethal C-4 and 1,000 feet of military detonation cord in a locker at the Greyhound bus terminal in Center City, even though it's possibly the most direct link between Philadelphia and domestic terrorism.

Investigators conceded a couple of months into their probe that the trail had gone stone-cold. They speculated that the material had been stolen from an Army base and that the culprit, who rented the locker on Sept. 29, 2001, decided that the material was too hot to handle after the Sept. 11 attacks. The truth may never be known.

19. What is in the 28 blacked-out pages of the congressional Sept. 11 report?

It's not a total mystery. Everyone has acknowledged that the pages contain highly embarrassing information about links between the Sept. 11 hijackers and the government of Saudi Arabia, America's supposed ally in the Middle East and home to the world's largest oil reserves. One of those officials is said to be Saudi ambassador Prince Bandar, whose wife, Princess Haifa, indirectly funded at least two of the Sept. 11 terrorists during their time in San Diego. The prince is so close to the Bush family that he's known, incredibly, as "Bandar Bush." This week, Time reports that just after the Sept. 11 attacks, when U.S. commercial airspace was still closed to our citizens, Bush allowed a jet to stop at 10 U.S. cities to pick up and fly home 140 prominent Saudis, including relatives of bin Laden.

A new must-read book by investigative reporter Posner - "Why America Slept" - takes the conspiracy to the highest of levels of the Saudi government. He says a top bin Laden lieutenant, Abu Zubaydah, who was captured in March 2002, stunned investigators when - allegedly given the "truth serum" sodium pentothal - fingered three top Saudis. They were Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, the Westernized owner of 2002 Kentucky Derby winner War Emblem; Prince Turki al-Faisal bin Abdul Aziz, the kingdom's longtime intelligence chief, and Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir.

The most incredible part of the story is what happened next. In an eight-day period in late July 2002, Prince Ahmed died at age 43 from a heart attack, Prince Turki died in a car crash and Prince Fahd "died of thirst." Coincidence? What do you think?

20. Where is Osama bin Laden?

Remember how President Bush vowed on Sept. 17, 2001, that he was determined to catch bin Laden "dead or alive"? Well, the good news is that if he wants bin Laden "alive," there's still a chance that could happen. Intelligence experts now agree that bin Laden successfully escaped his Tora Bora hideout in Afghanistan back in December 2001 - when the U.S. failed to commit ample manpower to the chase - and that the al Qaeda leader is alive and well, and plotting new attacks.

"We don't know where he is," Army Col. Rodney Davis, spokesman for America's forces in Afghanistan, said recently. But Newsweek seems to know where to find bin Laden: in the remote, mountainous - and lawless - Kunar province of Afghanistan. The magazine chillingly reported that just five short months ago, bin Laden convened the biggest terror summit since Sept. 11 at a mountain stronghold there. The participants reportedly included three top-ranking representatives from the Taliban, several senior al Qaeda operatives and leaders from radical Islamic groups in Chechnya and Uzbekistan. The topic was carrying out attacks against U.S. interests inside Iraq.

The most chilling aspect of the Newsweek report is that bin Laden has access to biological weapons and is determined to find a way to use them against the United States. A source from the Taliban told the magazine: "Osama's next step will be unbelievable."

But this week, ABC News reported that the hunt for bin Laden has been narrowed to a different area - a 40-square-mile section of the Waziristan region of Pakistan. The report said that local residents suspected of trying to inform Americans about bin Laden's whereabouts were executed in broad daylight.


Original Article: http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/6742902.htm





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________
For Bea - Bald Is Beautiful


If we'd just be 10% nicer to each other, we could transform the world.

My Blog:http://eggplant43-aubergine.blogspot.com/
Mulderator's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 49,762 posts.
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
11-Sep-2003, 09:02 PM #2
Is this from an episode of the X-Files or the Twilight Zone?
eggplant43's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 12,709 posts.
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Billings, MT
Experience: Been there, done that, still learning.
11-Sep-2003, 09:23 PM #3
mulder
I posted the link for you so you could investigate. So you tell us. Perhaps you already know the answers to the questions, want to give it a go?
eggplant43's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 12,709 posts.
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Billings, MT
Experience: Been there, done that, still learning.
11-Sep-2003, 09:34 PM #4
The Dust
Anger builds over EPA's 9-11 report
By Francesca Lyman, MSNBC contributor


Two years after the World Trade Center attacks, New Yorkers say they're outraged by reports that the White House influenced the Environmental Protection Agency to downplay hazards posed by the toxic dust that fell in an avalanche over the city. The EPA's acting chief defends the agency's actions after the attacks, saying it hopes to be better prepared for "the next time."

"I PRAY TO God that, as a country, in the event of another terrorist attack, God forbid, we as an agency would be equipped to get the data analyzed and posted to the public," EPA Acting Administrator Marianne Horinko told MSNBC in an exclusive interview. "All that was a huge challenge to us on 9/11 -- coordinating communication among agencies, following incident command. God forbid there is a dirty bomb. I hope everyone knows their battle stations."
In the early days and weeks of the World Trade Center disaster, says Horinko, there was such chaos that mistakes were inevitably made.

"Did we rush out (too soon) with data? On balance, I think we used our best professional judgment in an atmosphere where people were clamoring for answers." But the agency wasn't trying to deceive the public, she claims.

However, a report by the EPA's Office of the Inspector General released on Aug. 21 states, among other criticisms, that the White House reviewed and even changed EPA statements about public health risks to make them sound less alarming. The report charges that the White House Council on Environmental Quality influenced "the information EPA communicated to the public through its early press releases when it convinced EPA to add reassuring statements and delete cautionary ones." The report cites "reopening Wall Street" and "national security" as reasons for the spin.

'WE WERE ALL LIED TO'
The EPA presented "an overriding message that there was no significant threat to human health" even though there was cause for caution, it concluded.

"When EPA made a September 18 announcement that the air was 'safe' to breathe, it did not have sufficient data and analyses to make such a blanket statement," said the OIG, adding that the agency was missing data on other pollutants, such as particulates and chemicals like PCBs. In addition, 25 percent of dust samples contained asbestos, a potent carcinogen.

Yes, Horinko admits, the EPA did find asbestos in the dust samples. "But the vast majority of the samples we took did not contain it," she says.

Asked about why people are still suffering ill effects, Horinko said she can understand that rescue workers would still be affected but finds residents' continued complaints to be "mystifying."

Even though the the building collapses caused the highest particulate count in the city's history, the tragic event violated no pollution standards. That's because the air quality regulations were set up to measure particulate matter loadings over 24-hour periods rather than intense, short-term bursts.


That is cold comfort to many New Yorkers, particularly those still suffering health effects from exposure to the dust.

Kim Todd, an acting coach who lives in lower Manhattan just two blocks from the former World Trade Center, says she's angry. "I might not have stayed down here -- with dust on me for days -- had I known of the dangers," she says. "We were all lied to, and I'm afraid everybody is going to be seriously sick."

Some fear that "WTC cough," sinus problems, headaches and other ailments that Todd and others continue to experience, were worsened by government officials more willing to return the city to normalcy and open the Stock Market than protect public health. Doctors, too, worry the event could spur a rash of asbestosis, cancer and other long-term diseases in the future.


MANY WORKERS STILL SICK
"For me, it's very scary. We lost another firefighter, and that makes one in New York and two volunteers who have died of pneumonia. My lungs are totally shot, and I'm afraid that's what many of us are going to die of," says Vincent Forras, a volunteer firefighter who answered the call for help, driving down from South Salem, N.Y., to Ground Zero that clear, blue-skied morning on Sept. 11.

Forras and thousands of other rescue workers on "the pile," who were largely unprotected in those first hours and days, are still sick. Workers got little more than paper masks, if that, and there weren't enough respirators to go round, recalls Forras, who still suffers severe headaches and ailments stemming from sinus surgery. "It took at least two weeks to get properly equipped. By then we were pretty well cooked."

"There was a lot of finger-pointing about who was in charge," says Joel Shufro, director of the New York Coalition for Occupational Safety and Health. "But in the confusion between EPA and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the city Health Department, laws weren't enforced."

Workers have to bear some of the blame, says Horinko. "Many did not wear professional gear despite our best efforts."


But, Forras says, even Mayor Rudolph Guiliani appeared to believe the EPA's statement and went so far as to stand next to then-EPA administrator Christie Whitman and announce that the air was safe.

"When you have someone of the caliber of Mayor Guiliani saying it, they took that as gospel," says Forras.

Not all New Yorkers believed that the smells wafting up from the smoldering remains of the two 110-story office towers were as benign as official pronouncements.

"How could something as huge as the World Trade Centers with all their contents -- computers, fluorescent lights, plastic chairs, everything -- just disappear?" says Todd. "They had to go somewhere."

Workers at Ground Zero got much higher doses of dust and fumes than residents, says Dr. Robin Herbert, a physician and researcher at Mt. Sinai Hospital who worked on a program that screened and treated rescue workers and volunteers at the site. A year after the attacks, half of the program's patients -- some 7,000 firefighters, police officers and other volunteers -- were still sick. While the final count is not in, says Herbert, "a substantial percent continue to have persistent upper and lower respiratory symptomatology -- coughs and sinus problems."

TOXINS MAY LINGER
Two years after Sept. 11, some downtown New Yorkers are still concerned about the potential toxicity of lingering dust in indoor areas, says Jenna Orkin, of 9/11 Environmental Action, a group formed to address issues many felt literally slipped through the cracks after the disaster when the EPA turned indoor air issues over to the city Department of Health.

After Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) held hearings on the health hazards triggered by the terror attacks, the EPA and city launched a program to clean up people's apartments, ultimately cleaning more than 4,000 apartments in lower Manhattan. But that program left out the cleanup of schools, offices, workplaces, shops and businesses -- and that's only the beginning of how "wholly inadequate'' the program was, Nadler told MSNBC.

"The program was limited to an area north of Canal Street, as though there were a Star Trek force field blocking out the rest of Manhattan and other places, like Brooklyn, where we know the toxic plume traveled," says Nadler.

The EPA tested and cleaned individual apartments only when people asked, and generally left out central air systems and common areas. "How can you clean one apartment, and not the one next to it?" Nadler asks.

Apartments were tested for only one pollutant: asbestos. The testing method used excluded active testing, which uses a fan to kick up the pollutants lurking in carpets, drapes and corners, unless applicants opted for the most aggressive cleanup, which prohibited the resident from being present (and, some say, discouraged many people from signing up).

Jo Polett, who lives 6 blocks from the trade center site, however, insisted on supervising her job, and made the contractor turn on the "active" test fan when he didn't even know to. With effort, she learned that her apartment was contaminated with heavy metals, such as antimony and lead (with the lead reading five times the EPA's standard). Had she opted for "testing only" -- which tested only asbestos -- she might never have found that out.

Polett, who speaks softly with her new whispery voice, blames her respiratory problems on the toxic dust trapped in her building's ventilation system. Yet, because there was no visible dust in her apartment, she never suspected a problem until several months after the disaster. Too late, her home was judged "uninhabitable" by FEMA, she said. "I'm frightened by what other people might also be living with," says Polett.

In a press conference, Nadler also release a memo by EPA scientist Cate Jenkins, a veteran of the Hazardous Waste division, saying that even the most rigorous EPA-led efforts have failed to clean up downtown buildings to federal levels for asbestos and silica, another carcinogen that, she says, could be implicated in "WTC cough."

Jenkins' memo states that a building at 114 Liberty Street still has visible dust. She has said that the EPA tested its own offices downtown with more stringent methods. The city Department of Environmental Protection did not return calls regarding its joint cleanups with the EPA, but Jordan Bailowitz in Mayor Michael Bloomberg's office said, "The city is not responsible for oversight of what EPA had done to clean up apartments."

NEW CLEANING EFFORTS URGED
Siding with Nadler on this issue, the OIG has urged the EPA to re-launch a new systematic program to make sure the agency's apartment cleaning does reduce residents' exposure to indoor pollutants. The OIG notes that in this case, as in future terrorist events, the EPA is tasked under a 1998 Presidential Decision Directive "with the leadership role in cleaning up buildings and other sites contaminated by chemical or biological agents as a result of terrorism."

But the EPA's Horinko doesn't think that's necessary. "We stand by the job we managed in testing and cleaning up people's apartments," she says.

It's too soon to say if the World Trade Center attack will have long-term health effects on New York residents, says the OIG report, although there are troubling signs. Pregnant women exposed to air pollution from the World Trade Center attacks, according to a preliminary study released in August 2003, face double the risk of delivering babies up to a half-pound smaller than babies born to women not exposed.

Doctors are still treating patients with post 9-11 respiratory problems, says Neal Schachter, a pulmonologist at Mt. Sinai. During the first year, he saw perhaps 15 percent more such patients, but that's tapering off to between 5 percent to 10 percent more now.

"But I still get a steady stream of patients, including new ones," he says.

Schachter also worries about the long-term consequences of the pollution that we have yet to see. "With asbestos, as well as other carcinogens, we're dealing with silent culprits, that have yet to wind up scarring lungs or causing cancer," he adds.

For some, the OIG report shook their confidence in government. "Accurate and timely information from government is a cornerstone of good public health," says Mt. Sinai's Herbert. "By deleting good information to the public -- people in their apartments, people on the pile -- we lost opportunities for disease prevention."


Francesca Lyman is an environmental and travel journalist and author of "Inside the Dzanga-Sangha Rain Forest" (Workman, 1998). She recently finished a report on the health effects of the Sept. 11 attacks titled "Messages in the Dust," which will be available online at www.neha.org


http://www.msnbc.com/news/963407.asp?0cv=CB10
__________________
For Bea - Bald Is Beautiful


If we'd just be 10% nicer to each other, we could transform the world.

My Blog:http://eggplant43-aubergine.blogspot.com/
Mulderator's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 49,762 posts.
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
11-Sep-2003, 10:29 PM #5
Re: mulder
Quote:
Originally posted by eggplant43:
I posted the link for you so you could investigate. So you tell us. Perhaps you already know the answers to the questions, want to give it a go?
What difference does it make? You don't want the answers, you simply take charged rhetoric and use it to smear the Bush Administration.

Take this for example:

Quote:
The most chilling aspect of the Newsweek report is that bin Laden has access to biological weapons and is determined to find a way to use them against the United States. A source from the Taliban told the magazine: "Osama's next step will be unbelievable."
Did we not invade Afghanistan (to the Chagrin of the anti-war left)? Was Bush suppossed to go in there an find bin Laden himself? What you really are saying is the elite of the military are incompetent because Bush doesn't carry out these missions himself. I'd like to ask you a question--do you believe a Democratic Administraton would have been more successful in locating bin Laden? Is that the import of this article?

And as for biological weapons, how come you're so willing to accept the word of Newsweek that bin Laden has access to biological weapons when you wouldn't listen to any reports from any source about Hussein's access? And if bin Laden has access to biological weapons from some cave in Afghanistan, how the hell is that a threat to the United States? Are you going to sit there with a straight face and try to tell us all that bin Laden was a bigger threat to use biological weapons from his Afghanistan caves than Hussein, who was in control of an entire country with an established military, and who used biological weapons in the past?

Your hypocrisy and the hypocrisy of the the anti-American left is shameful its so obvious (to anyone with an open mind). You people are so damned determined to smear Bush and his administration that you gleefully receive and publish every bit of negative news you can find to scare people. You'd expect us all to believe that bin Laden poses a serious imminent threat while at the same time criticizing Bush for taking out the ever noble and nice guy, Saddam Hussein, who was as harmless as a fly.

Do you take us all for fools? I can't believe anyone except those in the "hate-Bush" camp would swallow such ridiculous assertions as those put forth in your articles. But then, I'm never surprised at the lack of any logical thought process from the left--I'm come to accept it as a fact of life like the Sun rising every day.

PS--why don't you just have the honesty to call this thread what it really is just another "I hate Bush and I'll post every crackpot article I can find to smear him with" thread. I'm getting tired of them and I know most of the members are (and it has nothing to do with wether they even support Bush--its just the constant droning on and negativity--its enough to make anyone sick).
__________________
Weapon of Mass Instruction!

Do you like counting dead bodies? If so, you'll LOVE this thread: http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-...ity-chart.html. On the other hand, if you prefer honoring heroes, please visit this thread: http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-...those-who.html

Last edited by Mulderator : 11-Sep-2003 10:51 PM.
sdc's Avatar
sdc
Guest with n/a posts.
 
11-Sep-2003, 10:31 PM #6
Peace to Bush our Commander and Chief on this solemn day
we all hang our heads with you!
eggplant43's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 12,709 posts.
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Billings, MT
Experience: Been there, done that, still learning.
12-Sep-2003, 01:26 AM #7
Mulder
Thanks for exposing your hatred of those who do not share your views. You have determined that this is simply an anti-Bush thread. It is far from it. I posted the questions because I thought they were valid. What makes you think I don't want the answers? Once again you put words in my mouth.

I think all Americans have a responsibility to question the actions, motivations, agendas of whatever Administration is in power, the decisions that the Congress and Senate make, as well as what the different agencies do in our name. That is the very nature of a democracy. That was certainly the path the Republicans took during the last Administration, so why is it not OK to question, scrutinize, and criticize the actions and motivations of the current Administration? Seems a bit one-sided to me.

I did not post the article because I believed every word that was said, but rather because I thought it was provocative. As far as smearing the Bush Administration, I have no need to do so, as IMO they do that everyday on their own. As far as I'm concerned, this is the most dangerous, misguided, and arrogant administration in my lifetime. I know many people who share this view with me, including many Republicans. As I've said many times recently, this will be validated next November, mark my words.

As far as Afghanistan is concerned, your President Bush promised the Nation that he would find the criminal "dead or alive", his name is never even mentioned anymore, although he represents as great a danger, or even greater than he did before. He proved it by the actions he has successfully taken against the US, Saddam Hussein never did.


Quote:
Your hypocrisy and the hypocrisy of the the anti-American left is shameful its so obvious (to anyone with an open mind). You people are so damned determined to smear Bush and his administration that you gleefully receive and publish every bit of negative news you can find to scare people. You'd expect us all to believe that bin Laden poses a serious imminent threat while at the same time criticizing Bush for taking out the ever noble and nice guy, Saddam Hussein, who was as harmless as a fly.
The above statement on your part is pure hogwash, and you know it. I have never said, nor do I believe have any of the rest of us opposed to your viewpoints said, or implied that Hussein was innocent, a nice guy etc. What we have said is he was not the imminent threat that the Bush Administration tried to convince us he was, that a pre-emtive unilateral attack was ill advised both militarily, and strategically, and that our anti-terror campaign should include the UN members who have as big a stake in this as we have.

Now this constant droning may make you sick, but not confronting the absurdity of the current situation could do far more than make you sick.
__________________
For Bea - Bald Is Beautiful


If we'd just be 10% nicer to each other, we could transform the world.

My Blog:http://eggplant43-aubergine.blogspot.com/
Mulderator's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 49,762 posts.
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
12-Sep-2003, 01:31 AM #8
Re: Mulder
Quote:
Originally posted by eggplant43:
Thanks for exposing your hatred of those who do not share your views.
So you think I hate you? I hate Rep? I hate my wife? She certainly doesn't share all of my views--we disagree on some key issues.

What this does is expose not me, but you, my friend, for the rhetoric you a so fond of spinning--few buy it except those that already despise Bush.

I do not hate you--I can honestly say I don't hate anyone [except for possibly Hillary Clinton! ]. I am simply tired of reading ludicrous allegations passed on as being credible (would you please answer the question about why you are willing to believe bin Laden is an imminent threat to use chemical weapons, but Hussein is not (or was not)?)

Strong dissent does not equate with hatred unless, of course, it is a conservative disagreeing with a liberal.
__________________
Weapon of Mass Instruction!

Do you like counting dead bodies? If so, you'll LOVE this thread: http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-...ity-chart.html. On the other hand, if you prefer honoring heroes, please visit this thread: http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-...those-who.html
Mulderator's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 49,762 posts.
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
12-Sep-2003, 01:41 AM #9
Re: Mulder
Quote:
Originally posted by eggplant43:
Now this constant droning may make you sick, but not confronting the absurdity of the current situation could do far more than make you sick.
Absurdity in who's opinion? Yours? The situation in Iraq is exactly what any reasonable person and certainly everyone in the Bush Administaion expected it to be. It is you and the venemous anti-war left that have in the first place manufactured the premise that the Bush Administration thought that post-war Iraq would be a cake walk and easy and then turned around and took the current situation and try and make it look like somehow its a failure because it doesn't measure up to your fabricated predictions.

To the contrary, and I repeat, SHOW ME PROOF ANYWHERE THAT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION BELIEVED THAT IT WOULD BE A QUICK AND PAINLESS TASK TO DEFEAT AND THEN RECONSTRUCT IRAQ?

If you can't show proof, STOP FABRICATING. At least have the intellectual honesty to admit you have asbolutely no basis for your allegations.
__________________
Weapon of Mass Instruction!

Do you like counting dead bodies? If so, you'll LOVE this thread: http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-...ity-chart.html. On the other hand, if you prefer honoring heroes, please visit this thread: http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-...those-who.html
PCvirgin's Avatar
Senior Member with 276 posts.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Experience: Beginner-Intermediate Plus
12-Sep-2003, 01:43 AM #10
Everybody:

After dealing with tradgedies that have occured, we should try to unite more and realize that we have a long fight ahead to fight terrorism (911 drives this point home more than ever).

Speaking from a realistic viewpoint, we have to face the fact that both political parties are not perfect at times and have their own hidden agendas that the american public is not always aware of. So, at this point, the only rational thing to do is to deal with some of the individuals that have been voted into office and hope that there are still some honest politicians left.
eggplant43's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 12,709 posts.
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Billings, MT
Experience: Been there, done that, still learning.
12-Sep-2003, 01:48 AM #11
Well it feels like hatred to me. Admittedly I could be wrong, but that is honestly what it feels like on this end.

I guess I didn't answer your question directly enough. Osama bin Laden and his Al Quaeda organization are DIRECTLY responsible for the death of thousands of American lives through their acts of terrorism, Saddam Hussein is not responsible for a single death of an American by terrorism. Saddam Hussein, and his coterie were reprehensible human beings causing great human suffering, but they never constituted a direct threat to American citizens, especially on our own soil. Do you refute this?

I have seen hatred from the left here, almost as much as from the right, but that does not make it acceptable, or OK. Early on, you called me on name calling, I listened and stopped, I don't believe you ever have.
__________________
For Bea - Bald Is Beautiful


If we'd just be 10% nicer to each other, we could transform the world.

My Blog:http://eggplant43-aubergine.blogspot.com/
Wino's Avatar
Computer Specs
Distinguished Member with 12,375 posts.
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Republic of Texas
Experience: Advanced
12-Sep-2003, 02:27 AM #12
Re: Re: Mulder
Quote:
Originally posted by Mulder:
....The situation in Iraq is exactly what any reasonable person and certainly everyone in the Bush Administaion expected it to be. It is you and the venemous anti-war left that have in the first place manufactured the premise that the Bush Administration thought that post-war Iraq would be a cake walk and easy and then turned around and took the current situation and try and make it look like somehow its a failure because it doesn't measure up to your fabricated predictions.
Attached Thumbnails
unanswered-9-11-questions-baby_suck_on_pacifier_md_clr.gif  
Mulderator's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 49,762 posts.
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
12-Sep-2003, 02:49 AM #13
Quote:
Originally posted by eggplant43:
Well it feels like hatred to me. Admittedly I could be wrong, but that is honestly what it feels like on this end.

I guess I didn't answer your question directly enough. Osama bin Laden and his Al Quaeda organization are DIRECTLY responsible for the death of thousands of American lives through their acts of terrorism, Saddam Hussein is not responsible for a single death of an American by terrorism. Saddam Hussein, and his coterie were reprehensible human beings causing great human suffering, but they never constituted a direct threat to American citizens, especially on our own soil. Do you refute this?

I have seen hatred from the left here, almost as much as from the right, but that does not make it acceptable, or OK. Early on, you called me on name calling, I listened and stopped, I don't believe you ever have.
Not hatred Bruce, frustration. I respect you--what I know of you outside your resentment for George Bush and Republicans (that's was it seems like to me), I like very much. You are a sensitive man with a great compassion for your fellow man--I could not possibly hate a person like that--I can only admire you for that. Certainly, as I have told you before, we need more people like you in the world.

However, its appears to me that when you (or anyone from you political side) discusses the war in Iraq, there is a complete distortion of the truth. I do not believe that anything going on in Iraq right now was unexepcted by the Bush Administration or those in charge of the war. Do you honestly believe they did not expect continuing sniper attacks and dissidents? There are millions of people in Iraq--its takes only a handful to commit cowardly acts of terrorism.

If you want to debate whether it was a mistake or not to invade Iraq, that's a honest debate. If you want to debate whether Hussein posed an imminent risk to the US, that's a honest debate. But arguing that what's happening in Iraq was not expected and therefore, its a failure is an intellectually dishonest position. I think you know that Bush said all along that it would be a long and difficult process--I never recall him saying anything else. Do you?
__________________
Weapon of Mass Instruction!

Do you like counting dead bodies? If so, you'll LOVE this thread: http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-...ity-chart.html. On the other hand, if you prefer honoring heroes, please visit this thread: http://forums.techguy.org/civilized-...those-who.html
Mulderator's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 49,762 posts.
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
12-Sep-2003, 02:49 AM #14
Re: Re: Re: Mulder
Quote:
Originally posted by Wino:
Wino--you're lucky your so much older than me, or these childish antics would really piss me off!
PCvirgin's Avatar
Senior Member with 276 posts.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Experience: Beginner-Intermediate Plus
12-Sep-2003, 02:54 AM #15
Wino:

I agree with statement you made about Bush thinking that the Iraq war would be a cakewalk. It is so darn unfortuante that the lives of our solidiers have to be sacrificed daily to obtain victory. All we can do now is keep the soldiers and thier family in our prayers.
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
WELCOME TO TECH SUPPORT GUY! Are you looking for the solution to your computer problem? Join our site today to ask your question -- for free! Our site is run completely by volunteers who want to help you solve your computer problems. See our Welcome Guide to get started.



Thread Tools


You Are Using:
Server ID
Advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:31 PM.
Copyright © 1996 - 2008 TechGuy, Inc. All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin, Copyright © 2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
Powered by Cermak Technologies, Inc.