[angelize56]

Do you think this is a good idea? In a way it is....if the participants have the surgery, lose the weight, have minor complications and it can actually be proved that it'd cost more to treat health problems assoicated with their weight if they had no surgery. I'm always torn when thinking of this type of surgery! My best friend had it done...the lap-band....went from 360 to 195 lbs in less than a year and at age 37 died suddenly. The autopsy revealed no known cause for her death. What's scary is she knew about 7 others who had it when she did and several of those have died suddenly too of unknown causes! Seems not to be a coincidence! Even a Detroit city councilwoman died from the surgery as the hopsital sent her home not knowing they'd punctured her stomach and she developed a deadly infection. Too sad! Maybe these people would have lived longer overweight...it was a chance they chose to take though. I think if I hadn't been able to lose 110 lbs on my own I might have given it a small amount of consideration....out of desperation. Good luck to these people in Louisiana. Take care. angel

Louisiana government employees to find out
Wednesday, October 15, 2003 Posted: 11:40 AM EDT (1540 GMT)

BATON ROUGE, Louisiana (AP) -- Forty obese government employees will get weight-reduction surgery in a $1 million experiment to see whether it keeps insurance payments down over the long run by preventing other health problems.

The first job will be choosing the 40 from more than 1,000 people on the state's health plan who expressed interest in the surgery. The participants will be monitored for three years.

A few states require insurance companies to cover weight-reduction operations, such as those that clip the stomach to a fraction of its original size and bypass part of the intestine. This makes people feel full much more quickly, and digest less of what they eat.

The resulting weight loss can head off long-term illness related to being overweight. The operation is generally considered only for people who are "morbidly obese" -- at least 100 pounds overweight.

The Louisiana Legislature refused to require coverage of the operation after insurers objected that it would cost too much. The state health plan alone would spend an estimated $25 million in its first year if it had to cover all requests immediately, Executive Director A. Kip Wall told lawmakers this summer.

"The biggest obstacle is, for lack of a better term, pent-up demand," he said Tuesday.

Wall said the $25 million estimate was based on a quoted price of $25,000 per operation and the more than 1,000 letters his office got after sending a notice about the proposed test a year ago to the 250,000 people covered by the plan. Nationwide, prices range up to $40,000 per operation.

A $1 million contract was approved this month for LSU Health Sciences Center -- the state's major medical school -- to pick, treat and follow up with 40 volunteers for the pilot study.

Participants in the experiment will have to pay no more than the usual co-payment or deductibles. The amount would depend on which group benefits plan they are in.

[Cédric]

[Paquadez]

As I'm sure that Ceddy will agree, the French had a good way of reducing weight in the 1700s.

Called the guillotine!

15 pounds of ugly fat gone in one fell stroke!

Hi Angel.

Hugs 'N Stuff.

Paq

[DNeurococo]

Angel, I don't know much about the "lap-band" operation. It MAY have been at fault, or it may not. I wouldn't be too quick to jump to conclusions.

There are a lot of questions unanswered here. You say your friend and seven others died. Is that a significant number compared to all who had the surgery? Were their deaths traceable to the surgery? What were their ages and physical condition?

People who are, or have been, morbidly obese are likely to have strained their hearts and damaged their arteries. I'm no doctor, I'm just pointing out that there may be other possibilities.

Or, it may be the operation after all.

#$DN

[Fyzbo]

When in my last relationship I became very comfortable and gained a lot of weight. Since then I have vowed to take it off. I've done this by exercising three times a week and watching what I eat. The results have been obvious. I've lost fat, feel healthier, and have become much stronger. My question is, why can't healthy living take the weight off for these people? Granted I did not have 100+ pounds to lose, but isn't the concept the same? Is this just another way to find an easy way out? to get what we want without having to put the needed effort in? or am I just missing something?

[CyBerAliEn]

Although I'm sure for a number of cases, exercise and dieting would result in an obese person losing weight...

The majority of obese people are overweight for reasons beyond just "laziness". It ranges from emotional problems that MAKE them eat, genetic problems, etc.

Keep in mind there is also a big difference between being obese and simply overweight. The majority of people simply overweight, are usually able to easily lose weight (well, not "easily", but you get my point, lol) by dieting/exercise.

[angelize56]

DN: I said several of the people died, not 7. The reason it seems significant is that they were all in their late 20's to 30's, had the surgery, lost the weight and died within a year the same way...just never woke up! My friend had talked to her Mom and 15 minutes later was found dead still sitting up in her chair. I guess it's just strange they all had the same op, same Dr, same hospital and same unknown cause of death. If it's coincidental it sure is strange eh!

It's not easy to lose weight when you get morbidly obese. And eating habits are hard to break! Not all large people are lazy and want to be that way. I hate how some people just assume large sized people don't care or are slovenly or any other myriad of things they are judged as. But that prejudice will never change!

The operations are not the easy way out for large sized people. There are many possible complications....just the anesthesia alone is a big risk. I like the laparoscopic procedure as it leaves less tissue to heal. The regular surgery can cause healing trouble at the incision line as obese people usually have that large apron of fat on their abdomen which pulls on the incision line and can cause infection, rupture at the suture line and/or wound dehiscence. I'd say this surgery is usually the last resort these people have short of death. I think the next big cost would be that the majority of those operated on lose the weight and then have all that excess skin to surgically remove. I hope they cover the cost of that too. Not something a person wants to have hanging around on them the rest of their lives. So I hope that LA knows what it is doing. Take care. angel

[lisaa7002]

Quote "My best friend had it done...the lap-band....went from 360 to 195 lbs in less than a year and at age 37 died suddenly. The autopsy revealed no known cause for her death. What's scary is she knew about 7 others who had it when she did and several of those have died suddenly too of unknown causes! Seems not to be a coincidence! Even a Detroit city councilwoman died from the surgery as the hopsital sent her home not knowing they'd punctured her stomach and she developed a deadly infection. Too sad!"

I think that would be enough to keep me from doing it , or suggesting it to others...

[cnimbus]

[smartass]I think it is the world's worst idea. Why spend all that money and have the patients suffer through surgery when a 2 cent tapeworm could do the same thing? [/smartass]

On a more serious note...

Some morbidly obese people are that way because of thyroid problems. Surgery, dietary changes and exercise will not do them any good, they need proper medication or the weight will come right back.

For others, the solution is simple - eat right and exercise. The added bonus is that those leading a healthy lifestyle feel energetic and have a much better quality of life. This is important, it must be a change in lifestyle or the weight will come back no matter what.

[Rockn]

Weight loss like this can't be healthy for you...look at it this way, it took 30 years to have gotten that heavy and now they lose it all in a year. Quite a shock to the system don't you think? I have always thought this type of surgery was the epitomy of laziness and in our quick fix society a quick solution for problem that took years to develop in the first place.

[EdGreene]

Originally posted by angelize56:
Do you think this is a good idea? (SNIP)

Originally posted by angelize56:
Do you think this is a good idea? (SNIP)

Angel, I weighed 210 pounds when I developed Diabetes. During my attempts to manage my weight, I ballooned up to 137 pounds. Why? Instead of eating the three measured and balanced meals with the two prescribed "snacks", I had inadvertently begun to eat <i>five times a day</i>, the two "snacks" becoming two additional full blown meals. On my doctor's advice, I cut out the two "snacks." In addition, she (her staff really) "policed" my kitchen cabinets, making me remove all item containing starches and other sugars. In addition, they took my salt!
I began to eat only low fat meats, including lean beef, salads (I settled on the prepared bagged salads rather than buy the "makings" and go through all that hassle), six eggs a month 12 ounces of fat free, sugar free "cookies" or "Cakes" a month.
In forty weeks, I lost down to 192 pounds. Enough so that my Insulin dosage has to be cut by some 30% (I began having bouts of Hy<i>PO</i>glycemia (low blood sugar) because the old dose was calculated to keep my blood sugar level at 135-140 pounds.

No secret to my weight loss: cutting out sugar and items containing sugars, low fat meats (all) and salts. Most of all, I lowered my calorie intake to the prescribed 2000-2200 calories a day.
I also adopted my doctor's own "exercise" program: I walked 20 minutes a day (one way) as far as I could, as <i>fast</i> as I could. I was permitted to walk back to the starting point at my own pace, but eventually, I started doing it the same way.
I went from 800 <i>yards</i> per set the first week to 2.78 <i>miles</i> per set nine weeks later.
My goal? 180 pounds by New Years.
(I once got down to 184 pounds and in celebrating, ate my way back to 198 pounds before I realized it).

1. No sugars, salts or fats (any, in any form).
2. 3 meals a day, at a <i>time certain</i> every day
3. No snacks (<i>except every six weeks, I can pig out on anything I want and that's usually 2-3 slices of Pizza!</i>)
4. Regular exercise, the "<i>fast as you can, as far as you can</i>" walking will do for starters, at least four times a week.
5. Ten pound dumbbells ($16 at Wal-Mart) for toning on the days when you are not walking.
(<i>For every pound of lean muscle you build, you body burns the equivalent of three pounds of fat).
*A ten-pound gain in muscle mass for a man can produce a 30-pound loss of body weight.
**A woman who gains ten pounds of lean muscle will lose as much as 40 pounds of fat! (Better metabolisms!)
(Assuming of course s/he maintains a moderate eating/calorie schedule).
6. "Cheating" is dumb, stupid and worse, unhealthy.
*I'll expect to hear about your weight loss in about 20 weeks.
Just do it; dammit!

[EdGreene]

Originally posted by cnimbus:
[smartass]I think it is the world's worst idea. Why spend all that money and have the patients suffer through surgery when a 2 cent tapeworm could do the same thing? [/smartass]

On a more serious note...

Some morbidly obese people are that way because of thyroid problems. Surgery, dietary changes and exercise will not do them any good, they need proper medication or the weight will come right back.

For others, the solution is simple - eat right and exercise. The added bonus is that those leading a healthy lifestyle feel energetic and have a much better quality of life. This is important, it must be a change in lifestyle or the weight will come back no matter what.

But 99% of fat, obese, morbidly obese people are fat because they, like myself before the change, eat too much of all the foods that are bad for them.
Think of it this way: nearly every bad habit humans have starts with sticking their fingers in their faces; drugs, including cigarettes and alcohol, obesity, OCDs all start from putting something in or on their hands thn dragging that whatever to their lips.
*The guy that just finished 44 days in that glass box suspended over London? Lost 80 pounds and was no worse the wear for it. Yeah, he was weak, but that came from muscle atrophy, not the weight loss per se.

[Cédric]

Originally posted by Paquadez:
As I'm sure that Ceddy will agree, the French had a good way of reducing weight in the 1700s.

Called the guillotine!

15 pounds of ugly fat gone in one fell stroke!

Hi Angel.

Hugs 'N Stuff.

Paq

Absolument cher ami!!!
I think some people shoug gain brain weight... might be useful too

[cadaver queen]

Surgery is extreme in any fashion ... I think people forget this..There are no guarantees that it will be successful or that the patient will wake up in the recovery room without complications..It is because the perception of most since it has become common place(to under go the cutting of the body) that it is safe...

I am not an alarmist but I think people have to realize this from another point ...A team of doctors , nurses and techs can sedate a person , make incisions, remove cellular matter , monitor a patients breathing , heart sounds and be vigilant as they close and stabilize a patient but they can not give the family an iron clad promise that their loved will indeed.. survive.. A team can do 7 surgeries both planned and of an emergent nature but not be able to say who will live through the surgery , who won't and who will develop consequences that change the outcome of treatment plan..

We can make it as sanitary , safe and informative process( with standard protocols and practices ) that will ensure a policy of accountability and trust with patients but we don't forget what we are doing is alien to the human body .. I have had discussions with my friends and colleagues and I realized that with the knowledge must come self humility that it is a responsibility as well as a gift..


I have read enough info about this surgery that I have a few thoughts...

1) From an HMO's point of view ... This is considered maintenance..Extreme measures must be taken with pts who are 200 lbs overweight ...Instead of paying for later medical treatment due complications due to obesity ..e.g. Knee replacements, hip replacement and then expensive rehabilitation , diabetes , pulmonary complications and cardiological conditions / CCU + ICU and SICU extended stays..so they offer 40,000 surgery and will even pay for skin flap removal e.g tummy tucks .

Bottom line it saves them money in the long run.. However, some plans are not covering the dietitians , the physical rehab needed to change the eating habits, or psychological support need to transform the person's cycles to a more positive lifestyle..
That worries me.. If you are going to alter some one's life that severely ( only being able to eat 3 oz of food for 6 hours at a time and if they go back to abusing food , the stitches will burst and peritonitis will result. This can cause death) there should be stop gaps to ensure safety..


2) There are not enough qualified doctors doing this surgery .. It is a fact.. It is experimental faze and there have been some incidences of product failure.. There have been cases of general surgeons ..not board certified gastro/ intestinal or even thoracic surgeons , attempting this procedure.. I wouldn't want a general surgeon doing brain surgery , would you ??

3) Stick with me for a moment.. Liposuction was considered an extreme measure for surgical purposes , once upon a time ago , it is now done in doctor's offices all over the country, not hospitals ..Only 4% of the targeted body region ,cellulite was to be removed and now in some cases 9% (or even more ) is being removed..This throws the heart, lungs and electrolyte system in shock (even if the patient is receiving fluids through an IV) ..

So a patient is in a Dr.'s operating room in his office with a nurse and if some thing goes wrong , the only option is to call for an ambulance and pray to stabilize the patient with epi, defib, or dopamine until the patient can be transported.. If the patient expires , the death certificate will not show the cause of death as being ill advised liposuction. No , it will be of cardiac nature .e.g. MI so tracking these cases are hard even with a post morbid done..

There are doctors who are GP's doing Plastic surgery procedures with minimal training and even less accountability because it is considered "safe" by the public.. It is not safe when you are being operated on someone who did not take time to enter an established program and spend 3-6 years to learn what a specialist must know..Instead using the scant knowledge from Med. school rotations , brief 4 month rotation through a residency program.. I see a parallel here , to this surgery.. The easing of standards , acceptability and lack of information to the public worries me..

This surgery can save lives and should be encouraged for those willing , and able to make the transition ..It is important that the health care community treats it's patients with respect and dignity by giving them the best standards , we are able to offer..The best doctors, best support staff and the best information so they can make decisions based on all the facts and not out of fear, prejudice and ignorance..

[GoneForNow]

So CQ how about you giving us your opinion?

You wrote all that and it was readable , you're going to be put in the doctors hall of shame.