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You ARE Being Watched - You ARE being Monitored !


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oldie's Avatar
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10-Nov-2003, 07:43 AM #1
You ARE Being Watched - You ARE being Monitored !
No not just by MS - but by various Government Depts. US / Brit and others !!!

TSGs plus most other Forums, and it's members, are monitored 24/7 for - - - - National Security purposes!!!

Invasion of privacy - or a necessary evil?

Your views on the subject ????????????????????????????????

Regards - Oldie
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10-Nov-2003, 08:48 AM #2
Oldie
Personally I am divided on that issue. If as you say the governments are monitoring forums such as these then these are my thoughts:

1) I do not like seeing our tax dollars spent having people monitor non-security threats such as TSG.

2) If they are using keyword monitoring for flagging words or sets of words so a human can review its content and context then I feel it is alright for national security. Being a public forum I do not view it the same as a I would a phone tap.

Dave
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10-Nov-2003, 09:00 AM #3
besides if a terrorist group were to use tsg as a operations message board they wouldnt get to far. we have good and smart members and mods and would police them very good. just look at a reaction from a potentially illegal thread. they are usually closed in 30 min or less
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10-Nov-2003, 09:01 AM #4
Oldie

We are ALL being monitored, 24/7 by NSA in the USA and GCHQ in the UK etc.

They routinely monitor ALL global traffic, using Key Word trapping techniques, this includes landlines, Faxes, Telexes (Still some left!), mobile phones and the Net.

In fact the UK Government beefed Up its own powers two years ago, with the aptly named RIP Act (Regulatory Investigation Powers or somesuch) immediately called RIP Confidentiality by Techies.

NSA use Cray Super Computers to crunch trillions of calls.

If you go to Gib and Cyprus, you will see geodysic domes (might be some in Malta-can't remember): these are all linked into NATO and the US/UK Electronic Intel gathering process.

Mainly, of course, used to trap drug barons and terrorists.

MI5 now have almost TOTAL access to both the PNC (Police National Computer), Inland Revenue and Social Security computers and databases.

Big Brother grows by the minute.

By the way, did you know, that if you are arrested in the UK and charged, the Police automatically take a DNA sample.

If the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) drop the charge, the Police STILL hang on to the DNA Sample! Nice!

paq
oldie's Avatar
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10-Nov-2003, 09:17 AM #5
Davey - well said and I agree to some extent but as the thread evolves there are other issues that have to be considered - later?

Pag - spot on of course - regarding Malta - YES - provided by none other than - the UK (but with good reason !!!)

Buddha - no chance - no chance whatsoever - unless they are absolutely stupid - no - they would use the PM system in code - and I do not mean encryption - I mean a straight forward and harmless looking letter / poem / film review - you name it !!!

A Satellite related board that I used to mod on had people running an international business using the PM facility - cheap eh???

Ciao ciao - Oldie
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10-Nov-2003, 10:40 AM #6
Warning to the World about the New America
November 09, 2003
Warning To The World About The New America
Posted by Carlo Stagnaro at November 9, 2003 02:59 PM

Writes "Baldknobber":

For years I have told Americans to wake up and see what was happening to their country before it was too late for America. Now it is time for me to tell the world to wake up about America before it is too late for them.

I have been aware of a disturbing change in the US government for the last 12 years. It seems that the world has slept through this change and does not realize what America has become. I will outline some major problems, go into specific subjects and cite examples of how America has changed, yes, we are indeed no longer free. Much of what is written in this report is from my own personal experience.

This is a warning to the world to watch out for the new America. America is no longer the moral guardian you knew it to be, in recent years America has become a tyrant unprecedented.

(Courtesy of Daniel New.)

Control Of Media

The American press can no longer be trusted. When the Government passed the Telecommunications act of 1996, it allowed consolidation of the media and control of all information received by the people to a small group of sources. This showed itself as large media mergers and virtually all information was soon controlled by the same small group of people. In June of 2003 additional legislation was passed which now allows all the news to be controlled from a single source. The day I typed this I called CN8 live, a national cable news program to speak on the air. They took my personal information including name, address and phone number. They then hung up and called me back to verify that I really was at that address. They then said something that scared me half to death, They said that if I did not stay on subject and say what I told them I would say that they would "notify the authorities". I am someone who has called news programs frequently in the past, and that never happened before. Itís obviously a new policy. So much for a free press.

Police Brutality

I know a man who manages a store close to where I live. His brother has a sixteen year old boy and seven year old girl. Outside his brotherís house some police were beating a man who was laying down on the road and not fighting back. The sixteen year old opened the window and shouted at the police, telling them that they were doing too much and that they did not need to beat the man so hard.

They did not let up, instead they kicked in the door to the house and assaulted the boy. So now they were beating up the man on the street and beating up the kid in the house. The seven year old girl ran to the officer who kicked in the door and tried pulling him off her brother. The officer pushed her away so hard that she hit the wall and broke her arm. It never made the news. This is not an isolated incident, it is the new America. Contrast this with the glossy happy-go-lucky "police are great and accountable for their actions" media coverage on shows like Real TV and "Cops", there is much more to the truth than we are allowed to see.

In the past I had heard stories like this from strangers but did not believe them until I heard it from someone I knew well. Indeed the foreign governments who have started to call the US a police state are much more correct than they realize. I am waiting for them to have the courage to say it without retracting comment.

Asset Forfeiture

America has a new policy towards personal property called "asset forfeiture". This is the act of confiscating property without a trial. The way it works is this: The police accuse you of a crime and take whatever they say you had in your possession when the alleged crime was committed. This could be a vehicle such as a boat or car, or a computer, or even your house. You have to go to court to prove your innocence to get it back, and if you win your case you have to pay a return fee which is usually 50% of the property value. If they take a car that was worth 12,000 you will have to pay 6,000 to get it back. If you cannot afford the 6,000 they will sell it at auction to "recover" their "funds". If you have a loan or mortgage on the property they sell at auction, you are still obligated to pay the bank for what you no longer have.

This happens frequently and the evidence is easy to find. Go to Google and type the search term "US government auctions" or "asset forfeiture auction" or pick any state and add the word auction. The auctions are everywhere, selling property seized from people who were often judged by the courts innocent.

If you are a property owner with tenants in a 200 room apartment complex and one of the tenants gets arrested in an apartment for possession of drugs or stolen property, or committing a crime such as calling a prostitute to his room, the city or state can take the apartment building away from the owner who was not involved in any way and say that the property committed the crime and therefore needed to be taken. Confiscation of large complexes has happened more than once, confiscation of single family rental houses and private homes is frequent.

Forcing A Crime

It has become common for a judge to force a crime. The way this is done is to issue a civil judgement that cannot possibly be implemented by the person the judgement is against. When the person the judgement is issued against fails to implement the judgement, a civil matter becomes criminal due to "contempt of court". This is commonplace in family law when a man is forced to pay ìchild supportî Child support judgements often leave a man with less than 20 percent of his income after taxes, despite the 50% rule. This forces the person the judgement is against to make a decision - pay "child support" as ordered and suffer severe hardship, often including dependence on friends or being homeless or living in a car or camper, or get behind on "child support" and become a "criminal" due to contempt of court.

Violation Of Ex Post Facto

In the constitutional republic the United States used to be, there was a rule of ex post fato which prevented any government, be it federal state or local from writing retroactive laws. But since 1987 there has been a new and disturbing trend.

The federal government along with many states and municipalities has started to write and enact retroactive laws. As an example, let's say that in 1998 you painted your house and at that time it was legal to paint your house without a permit. If in 2003 your municipality writes a retroactive law that states that you now needed a permit to paint your house, and makes it retroactive to 1995, you will be in violation and guilty of breaking the law in 1998.

Retroactive laws are commonplace now and are usually enacted in the areas of taxes, family policy, and land usage. It is a frequent event now to have people suddenly discover they owe huge sums of money or are now subject to punishment for doing things that were legal when they did them.

The public tolerance of the now commonplace violations of ex post facto has opened an avenue through which governmental bodies are prosecuting people for violations they did not commit, collecting taxes that were never owed and seizing properties which were "improperly used" in the past.

Legislation Without Representation

Starting in the late 1980's, most states authorized the practice of legislation without representation. It is standard practice now for un-elected people in state agencies to enact policy and write laws that were never voted on, approved, or asked for by the public. Legislation without representation often takes place in secret, with the public unaware of what is happening until the new law is put in place and enforced. This has removed accountability from government and allowed serious abusive practices to be implemented without the presence of any individual or group to be held accountable.

My own personal experience with legislation without representation occurred when I calculated that over 80 percent of my income was being taken in taxes and "child support" for two children. I called the child support agency and asked them who wrote the laws that made such a thing possible. I wanted to know which senator, representative or other elected official was responsible for enacting such a draconian policy.

The state agent replied: "The child support statutes were enacted by this child support agency and have nothing to do with elected officials. As for the individuals who write the policy, you are not permitted to know who is involved".

This most serious practice, probably the one that has destroyed our freedom the most, is occurring everywhere through many avenues, not only "child support". Legislation without representation allows a corrupt government to thrive because the people who write the legislation are employees of the government who work in secret, will never be held accountable and cannot be voted out of office.

In a democracy, the people can effect change by voting the people who are going against their will out of power. Legislation without representation circumvents the democratic process and takes the will of the people out of government. Due to the now common practice of legislation without representation, America can no longer be considered a true democracy.

Road Closures

In the back country they are closing down the roads to limit access. If you get caught riding even a bicycle on the road beyond the barrier, having left you car at the barrier, they will confiscate the bike, the car, and throw you in prison, and you will lose everything 100%. I was familiar with the back country of the intermountain west and noticed that around 1996 the road closures began to happen. I believe the closures are an attempt to de-familiarize the public with alternate routes of escape in the event of a police lockdown or martial law. They also closed down any road that led to safe water in remote regions. In High School, I had a German teacher who was alive during Hitler's reign and she said that Hitler closed down access to the wilderness areas after the Reichstag was burned which proved to be an effective method of eliminating resistance from the portion of the population which did not agree with him. She warned us to never let it happen here.

Road closures are usually done with very large immovable barriers such as boulders or trenches and signs warning of what will happen if you get caught attempting to travel beyond them.

Citizen Spies

In the name of fighting terrorism, the so-called "department of homeland security" has employed a network of citizen spies who may have in reality been hired to identify people who are upset with the new government policies. When the Reichstag was burned, Hitler also set up his network of citizen spies. Was Sep11 a Reichstag? One thing is certain, the videos you can download now are not the same as the ones I downloaded on Sep12. Immediately after Sep11 they clearly showed explosives going off in sequence, bringing the buildings down in a perfect demolition wave. Most of the ones you can find now no longer show the explosions, they have been "photoshopped" out.

Terror is a common tactic or excuse used by oppressive governments to get the people to give up their freedoms for a little bit of security. Hitler used this tactic after the burning of the Reichstag to justify the military actions he took in the opening days of World War II. To keep the population safe from terror, Hitler also employed his network of citizen spies who did little but turn their neighbors in for expressing dissenting views.

Common Police Searches

It has become commonplace now for police to stop people for no reason and search them. This began long before Sep11. This has happened to me personally three times, once at a roadblock, once when I was walking on my way to work, and once when I was sleeping in my van due to homelessness caused by a divorce. It would have happened many times, but I got good at spotting the roadblocks - just look for a traffic jam with evenly timed cars coming toward you in the opposite lane. Normally, the traffic jam would be long enough to allow me to pull a u-turn without being seen. I never did anything wrong, but I hate those road blocks.

Anonymous Accusation

In recent years, Federal, state and local law enforcement bodies have started arresting and punishing people due to anonymous accusations. Now when you show up in court you have no right to know who has accused you of a crime. Without any chance of any repercussions, individuals, groups and organizations now commonly issue accusations to get revenge, gain unfair advantage, or simply because they were going on assumption rather than actually being witness.

The right to know your accuser was a cornerstone of American justice; it created an environment which brought accountability to legal prosecution. Without it, people are now going to jail, being fined, and losing their children in civil disputes without ever knowing why.


***********
Just read that you guys were bored, just stumbled across this Should keep you busy for awhile

http://blog.lewrockwell.com/lewrw/ar...2380.html#more
oldie's Avatar
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10-Nov-2003, 11:50 AM #7
Heard only today that anonymous powers that be (within the USA) actually tried to gag the BBC from screening on their International network (BBC World) a Panorama special on the Iraq friendly fire incident in which John Simpson was almost killed

It will be shown around the world this week

Regards - Oldie
oldie's Avatar
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10-Nov-2003, 12:03 PM #8
Transfer it to here Candy - will keep the number of threads down to a more manageable level

And you will be allowed another thread this week
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10-Nov-2003, 12:22 PM #9
Re: You ARE Being Watched - You ARE being Monitored !
Quote:
Originally posted by oldie:
No not just by MS - but by various Government Depts. US / Brit and others !!!

TSGs plus most other Forums, and it's members, are monitored 24/7 for - - - - National Security purposes!!!

Invasion of privacy - or a necessary evil?

Your views on the subject ????????????????????????????????

Regards - Oldie
Not as bad as being married IMHO!!

Agree with Davey - waste of TP money. If they want to track my mundane traipse around the internet, as GWB said, "Bring 'em on!!" I'm getting used to the wasted resources by our government.
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10-Nov-2003, 12:59 PM #10
I've said this before, and I will say it again: The American public votes for the people who set forth these laws into place. It is the American public that is responsible for all that thier elected officials do. Some of the American public likes to remain ignorant to everything happening, as long as they don't have to be "bothered" by it. Some of the American public will go along with anything that an elected official does as long as that official is part of the political group they belong to. A small amount of the American public still tries to keep America "free" and the way that the framers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights wanted it to be.

AcaCandy, that is a sad article. But, even sadder is that things will get worse as time goes on. These practices are part of why our forefathers left England to form a "free" country. But, we (the American public) have allowed our politicians to become monarchies, and the common public to become nothing but peasants (sp?).

Sorry, but your article will be eventually discredited and attacked by close-minded persons, who see nothing wrong, even if it happened in front of thier face.
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10-Nov-2003, 01:08 PM #11
Strange but true and well as typically perverse!

When the UK government brought in the RIP Act, many techies went out of their way to send each other emails etc, all containing comments to do with terrorism and drugs!

Their concept was to create a D o S attack, by deluging the filtering computers with far too much work!

paq
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10-Nov-2003, 01:09 PM #12
We are being probed, monitored, DNA filed, fingerprinted, scanned, and almost stripped of all that we are, yet 4 planes were still highjacked after multiple warnings. Safety, my a**, this is more of a control isssue than a security issue! Government officials have thier hands in the pockets of businesses, and have to assure that those businesses remain to make money and be successful.
oldie's Avatar
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10-Nov-2003, 01:17 PM #13
Rest Assured
Slight interruption to thread

Mike (Tech guy) AcaCandy and mods - have no fears of shutdown - this board is respected by more than just it's members !!!!!!!!!!!

Ghawdex.com (powered by vBulletin) was shut down 7 days ago due to pressure from a certain Mr Murdoch (Australian Guy !!!) who owns the SKY above us - bloody FOX

Regards - Oldie
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10-Nov-2003, 01:27 PM #14
Oldie
want to expand on this?

"Mike (Tech guy) AcaCandy and mods - have no fears of shutdown - this board is respected by more than just it's members !!!!!!!!!!!"
~Candy~'s Avatar
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10-Nov-2003, 01:28 PM #15
Lol, you get it Marcus One day folks will wake up and say 'wow, when did that happen???????'

I am going to take Oldie's invitation to merge this into his thread since the theories are about the same
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