[Classified]

Next subject title. Human beings, a peaceful people?

[Classified]

What do Buddhists use as a Bible? Were Christ or Paul, Moses, etc. contempories of Lord Buddha, or did they just live on the same planet?

Is this current affairs?

[triggs]

Originally Posted by HumbeOpinion

No...you asked for me to name 1 muslim that hated America....I did!
Now aren't you being typical "Islamic" in that you are always the victim! Why is it that Islam always justifies by 'claiming' they are always 'defending" their land??? Amazing how Islam's mouth waters with hate of the Jew over Jerusalem and yet if anyone does a little research you will find that Jerusalem is not mentioned ONE time in the Koran! If its so important to Islam then why do muslims pray to Mecca and not Jerusalem? Mohammed never even went to Jerusalem!!!
I love how you had to add "direct or indirect" LOL Very typical. But it doesn't work! Bottom line is...the Koran teaches it's followers to kill the nonbelievers and to not be friends with Jews or Christians! I think it really bugs you that Islam is exposed! The motive to kill others for Allah is out of the bag!

Because they are defending their lands...wheather you want to believe that or not is upto you...again you bang on about the Quran cammanding the muslims to kill the nonbelievers, i ask you again where in history has a muslim killed non believers, because they were non belivers

....See the logic? This is Islam's problem Trigg...It cannot seperate it's politics from it's religion! ALSO Trigg...there is a thing called International law....

No that is not islams problem....u see it as problem...unlike the christians and the jews, we muslims do not change our religion to please you because you or anyone else likes it, the only pleaseure wee seek is of Allah, and thats final. So you can go on killing muslims one by one till eternity but you wont be able to kill islam itself

However...again...sharia law should be banned from all the WEST...because due to our democracy we will not allow anyone to be tortured or killed over a "religious" law that someone thinks a child or anyone has broken!

that is exactly my point, who are you or what gives you the right to go and impose your belives and values on another nation.....you say the muslims are trying to convert the west....I say the west is trying to convert the muslims...just as you find some of the laws and practises of the muslims abhorant, likewise the muslims find some of the laws and practises of the west abhorant.

[B]War brings alot of innocent deaths Trigg...but ummm...your implication that the "west" has picked on...the "west" has killed...the "west" has destroyed poor Islamic nations for no reason is just ludicrous. Again...if you don't like the results, I suggest you take it up with ISLAM and the muslims that have taken on holy jihad against the west in the name of Allah!
Trigg...because what you suggest is no more than a definate reaction for every action and you can go on and on and continue to dismiss the Islamic responsibility and play the victim but it won't change your destiny now will it? All the horrible actions in the world done by muslims are always someone else's problem isn't it? Islam never takes any responsibility for it![b]

Obviusly you are not reading my posts fully or you may have missed it....ive said it twice and ill say it again...most blame lies on the necks of the muslims who let themselves be put into the situatuation that they are in today....but alot of the mess and problems would have been sorted along time ago by themsleves if the west had not interfered or they had not let the west interfere.

It's quite interesting that Islam is so huge and so rich in money and yet it keeps producing individuals that love to terrorize the world in the name of Allah and when Islam is criticized for it what does it do? It disowns the situation and the problem. In fact...Islam becomes "THE VICTIM" by saying it has been hijacked! You see Trigg...Islam reaps what it sows....IT is no different than any other....IT reaps what it sows! Your Koran teaches to kill the nonbeliever for Allah. Now you have people in your faith acting it out.

no the quran does not say kill the non belivers (it seems that this is your favourite catch phrase) because they are non belivers, but rather if they kill you, then you kill them.
You say islam produces individual who terrorise the world...well the west produce governments who terrorise and are terrorising the world.

Thats right Trigg it is and many young men and women's blood has been spilled for that freedom. The west has worked very hard generation after generation to have a democracy. We are not about to hand it over to a group that wants to just waltz in and take advantage of it and turn it into an Islamic country that practices sharia law! So don't cry when the democracies start banning sects of Islam in the future or when the democracies start stopping immigration from certain countries! Because if Islam doesn't get it's act together that is exactly what is going to happen!

Democracy?? Ill tell you what democracy is,...its one big hypocracy, thats what it is.

Well in response to this...I dont hate muslims...I don't think anyone hates muslims but rather I can honestly say that I hate the actions of Islam by muslims! And remember Trigg....Islam is not a race....and muslims are not either because anyone can be a muslim. A muslim is just someone that practices Islam. So to me... how Muslims behave -- not in theory, but in reality -- is Islam. For Islam to shake off criticism or to shake off the generations that are taking up jihad and a holy war is like a parent that refuses to accept they have a troubled child that is wreaking havock on everyone!

Well what you have just said about islam, i have been saying about america and the west.

why should islam stop producing people who are willing to fight jihad.....you stop people in the west signing up with the army going and killing muslims directly or indirectly, and islam will also stop.

All that you have said to me displays arrogance and hypocracy...that you are better than the muslims, that they are barbaric and you are not, that they are killing your innocents and you are not, that you are fighting a just war and they are not, that they are killing because they are commanded to and you are not, that they hate the non belivers and you love the muslims, that it is ok when the christains and the kew to kill for their relgion or cause but its not ok for the muslims, that ther is one law for the muslims and another for the non muslims.

[Classified]

I think that it all has more to do with know-alls and clever-dicks and has very little to do with egalitarian humanitarianism.

Just the usual farcical load of BS invented by some SOB.

In my ******* opinion!

[triggs]

Originally Posted by MSM Hobbes

One tenant of Isam, and if this is misspoken or blatantly wrong, please correct and enlighten me, that is seen is that contrary to the Christianity and related religions, Islam is not that forgiving of a faith - your god does not allow other faiths, all those that do not follow Islam are considered infidels, and should be converted or swept aside; there is no room in Islam for other beliefs.

Im not to sure what your question is...can you please clarify.

if you mean does islam allow other religions to co-exist within its borders, then the answer to that is yes. You can see that in the history of islam and even today.
If you mean that does islam say that non muslims will not go to heaven , the the anser is yes, just like all other religions which says they are the true path...which one is, well thats another topic itself

Another is that Islam allows very little to no debate, nor room for doubt and discussion. To question much w/in this faith, esp. if a follower, is not advised. Now, please don't get me wrong here... I'm not attacking your faith, but in my own limited research, it seems that there is much to be admired w/in Islam, but... there is likewise much that leaves very little to no doubt that this is a very strict, unforgiving, and intolerant faith. And such is a foreign concept to those in the "West", as you can tell here, we love to discuss, debate, denigrade, dismiss, and defray any and all those that attempt to be have a claim contrary to our own, in various degrees of civility...

debate and discussions within islam is allowed...it has been there since the beginning...attacks on islam verbally or phisically is not allowed.

[triggs]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Humble, no need to site the more extreme aspects of Islam--just look what's is going on in Iran---the Theocracy has won! These people want to be led around by a group of bearded perverts--We can't do anything about it.

perverts????....ahhh the hatred, i can smell it

[Classified]

"If you mean that does Islam say that non muslims will not go to heaven, then the answer is yes, just like all other religions which says they are the true path...which one is, well that's another topic in itself."

Why do people always say "Go to Heaven." Is this not heaven enough?

You are standing ON the solid part of Heaven.

Or would you rather "live" in outer space?

[triggs]

Originally Posted by HumbeOpinion

Dugg, I think anyone can go through this thread and see that YES you have stalked my post. LOL

BTW Dugg, when it comes to Deuteronomy you can argue that with the muslims since they fight about it all the time against the Jews since it is there also that God talks about the Jews inheriting the Land. Deuteronomy 11:31, Hashem says, "And you are going to cross the Jordan to enter and inherit the land which the Lord Your God is giving to you. You will interit it and dwell in it." The OT verses from what I understand from my Jewish friends have told me that they were referring to the idolotrous tribes of Canaan and that Deuteronomy is God speaking to his Jewish people. You can talk to a Rabbi and I am sure he will explain that to you.
I am not Jewish Dugg and so I am under the new convenant which is the New Testament, but as a Christian I do understand that my salvation depends on a promise given to the ancestor of the Jews, because the root is the promise of salvation given to Abraham, and as a Christian I do not support the root, but the root supports me.

Is that why the christains with simmiliar beliefs to you will defend the israelis to the hilt, no matter what.

[Classified]

I don't believe in religion. I only believe in God.

[dugq]

Originally Posted by HumbeOpinion

BTW Dugg, when it comes to Deuteronomy you can argue that with the muslims since they fight about it all the time against the Jews since it is there also that God talks about the Jews inheriting the Land. Deuteronomy 11:31, Hashem says, "And you are going to cross the Jordan to enter and inherit the land which the Lord Your God is giving to you. You will interit it and dwell in it." The OT verses from what I understand from my Jewish friends have told me that they were referring to the idolotrous tribes of Canaan and that Deuteronomy is God speaking to his Jewish people. You can talk to a Rabbi and I am sure he will explain that to you.
I am not Jewish Dugg and so I am under the new convenant which is the New Testament, but as a Christian I do understand that my salvation depends on a promise given to the ancestor of the Jews, because the root is the promise of salvation given to Abraham, and as a Christian I do not support the root, but the root supports me.

The verses I quoted support Genocide on the basis of religion, are you supporting that? Are you saying Genocide and murder is okay if it is in the Bible, but if it is in the Koran then Islam must be satanic. These are verses from your Holy Book, and here are some more

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die."

Exodus 22:20 "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."

Leviticus 24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death."

Exodus 31:15 "Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

Deuteronomy 13: 6-9 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people."

As for the new covenenant, first the Bible is none to clear on that

Matthew 5:17-20 Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

John 10:35 "Scripture cannot be broken."

So on the basis of these verses, the Laws of the Old Testament should still be followed

Second and more importantly, are you saying that we should not judge the Bible and the Christian religion based purely upon single verses, but should instead consider those verses within the context of the whole Bible and of Christian theology??? Normally, that’s a position I would have some sympathy with, if it wasn’t for the fact that you have shown the completely opposite attitude when interpreting the Koran. For example, when Jaim pointed out that much of the Koran is peaceful and tolerant and that many Muslims follow this, your answer was

Originally Posted by HumbeOpinion

But Jaim, that was my point! The Koran, if you have read it, then you know that its full of contradiction. In one breath a muslim can say that its against the Koran to kill. But on the other hand they can also its perfectly justified to kill since Allah commands muslims to do so.

Yet when the Bible contradicts itself, you assume we must take the peaceful verses as operative.

When I pointed out that much of Islamic Theology believes that the Koran has seven layers of meaning, the more metaphorical being the more divine, your reply was

Originally Posted by HumbeOpinion

The Koran is constant contradiction! And by saying its all metaphorical they can use it the way they wish whenever they wish! In fact, I think it was meant to be that way because its a lie.

So whereas you are quite happy to interpret the Bible in light of later Theology and use it to resolve apparent contradiction, you criticise Islam for doing the same.

When Trigg argued that many of the verses you quote from were written when Islam was at war and were meant for the battlefield, you replied

Originally Posted by HumbeOpinion

On the battlefield you say eh? Hmmm well could you tell me why I didn't see the word battlefield there? The koran teaches to kill the nonbeliever.

So when you interpret the Koran you insist on looking at verses in isolation from the rest of the Koran and from the context in which they were written, yet when you interpret the Bible you do the exact opposite.

So not only is your method of analyzing Christian Extremism the opposite to the method you apply for analyzing Islamic Extremism, but the method you use to interpret the Bible is the opposite to that which you use to interpret the Koran. Is it any surprise that you reach such opposite conclusions?

[Classified]

"The verses I quoted support Genocide on the basis of religion, are you supporting that? Are you saying Genocide and murder is okay if it is in the Bible, but if it is in the Koran then Islam must be satanic."

Far too complex a question.

If you have a positive belief and a negative belief which one would YOU consider to be negative or "satanic"?

[Classified]

Peaceful? Is any religion peaceful? http://www.charliedaniels.com/soapbox/soapbox.html

Seems to me that when some people say peace they really mean rest in peace or, literally, death.

[Classified]

I've just returned from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Naval Air Station base where we did three shows for the troops and toured several locations around the post visiting with some of the finest military personnel on planet Earth.

The kids seemed to really enjoy the shows and especially liked "This Ain't No Rag, It's A Flag" and "In America". We had a great time with them.

We saw! Camp X-Ray, where the Taliban detainees are being held only from a distance, but I picked up a lot of what's going on there from talking with a lot of different people. The truth of the matter is that this operation is under a microscope. The Red Cross has an on site presence there and watches everything that goes on very closely. The media is not telling you the whole truth about what's going on over there. The truth is that these scum bags are not only being treated humanely, but they are probably better off healthwise and medically than they've ever been in their lives.

They are fed well, able to take showers and receive state of the art medical care. And have their own Moslem chaplain. I saw several of them in a field hospital ward where they were being treated in a state of the art medical facility. Now let's talk about the way they treat our people. First of all, they have to be watched constantly. These people are committed and wanton murderers who are willing to die just to kill someone else.

One of the doctors told me that, when they had Taliban in the hospital, the staff had to really be careful with needles, pens and anything else which could possibly be used as a weapon. They also throw their excrement and urine on the troops who are guarding them.

And our guys and gals have shown great restraint in not retaliating. We are spending over a million dollars a day maintaining and guarding these nasty killers and anyone who wants to see them brought to the U.S.A. for trial is either out of their heads or a lawyer looking for money and notoriety. Or both.

I wish that the media and the Red Cross and all the rest of the people who are so worried about these criminals would realize that this is not a troop of errant Boy Scouts. These are killers of the worst kind. They don't need protection from us, we need protection from them. If you don't get anything else out of this soapbox, please try to realize that when you see news coverage much of the time you're not getting the whole story, but an account filtered through a liberal mindset with an agenda.

We have two fights on our hands, the war against terror and the one against the loudmouthed lawyers and left wing media who would sap the strength from the American public by making us believe that we're losing the war or doing something wrong in fighting it.

Remember these are the same people who told us that Saddam Hussein's Republican guard was going to be an all but invincible enemy and that our smart bombs and other weapons were not really as good as the military said that they were. They also took up for Bill Clinton while he was cavorting around the Oval office with Monica Lewinsky while the terrorists were gaining strength and bombing our Embassies and dragging the bodies of dead American heroes around the dusty streets of Somalia.

It's a shame that we can't have an unbiased media who would just report the truth and let us make up our own minds. Here I must commend Fox News for presenting both sides much better than the other networks. They are leaving the other cable networks in the dust. People like being told the truth. Our military not only needs but deserves our support. Let's give it to them. The next time you read a media account about the bad treatment of the Taliban in Cuba, remember what I told you. Been there done that.

Footnote: I got an e-mail from a rather irate first cousin of mine the other day who has a daughter who's a lawyer and she seemed to think that I was painting all lawyers with the same brush. Please understand that I'm not doing that at all. That would be like saying that all musicians were drug addicts. There are a lot of good and honest attorneys out there. I happen to have one of them. But it seems that they never get any airtime. It's always the radicals who get their opinions heard, who fight the idea of the military tribunals and cite The Constitution and the integrity of America as their source of justifying their opinions. Well, first of all The Constitution says "We the people of the United States", it doesn't mention any other country. And secondly as far as integrity is concerned, I don't think some of these folks would know integrity if it bit them in the posterior. What do you think?

God Bless America. Charlie Daniels .........

Is this Charlie Daniels a civilian?

[big_pimp]

too many pages to read,

i think on teh whole muslims are good people, i think muslims are not that different to christians.. i mean jeez look at the crusades.. there are some real evil christians out there.. but they dont really have much to fight for anymore.

there was an inteesting quote by a well known muslim cleic im ad libbing a bit because i cant find the quote

basicaly he said

you dont have to be muslim to be a terrorist, but if you're a terrorist you are probably a muslim.

[HumbeOpinion]

Originally Posted by Jaim
Well, got some time to do the masterpieces which will help you get some knowledge.

Get the point.

LOL Jaim.....now that was toooooo funny! Well at least I can pat you on the head for being funny! haha