[LANMaster]

I know this thread may seem full of intent to enflame, and anger people.
That is not the intent.

I want to pose questions to the Muslims and allow them the
chance to confirm or deny some of the teachings of Islam.

Before we begin, I want to state that it has been my understanding that pretty much all major religions have had an intolerance to other belief systems. Christianity (of which I am a member) has had an extremely violent past which I fully condemn and rebuke.

The intent of this thread is primarily to become more educated
and less ignorant about Islam.


So here we go;

Are the below statements actual teachings of Islam?

teachings of Islam:

Men are superior to women (surah 2:228).

Women have half the rights of men: in court witness (surah 2:282)
and in inheritance
(surah 4:11).

A man may punish his wife by beating her (surah 4:34).

A man may marry up to four wives at the same time (surah 4:3).

A wife is a sex object for her husband (surah 2:223).

Muslims must fight until their opponents submit to Islam (surah
9:29).

A Muslim must not take a Jew or a a Christian for a friend (surah
5:51).

A Muslim apostate must be killed (surah 9:12).

Stealing is punished by the amputation of the hands (surah 5:38).

Adultery is punished by public flogging (surah 24:2).

Resisting Islam is punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off
of the hands and feet
(surah 5:33).

Fate decides everyone's eternal destination (surah 17:13).

Every Muslim will pass through Hell (surah 19:71).

Heaven in Islam is the place where a Muslim will be reclining,
eating meats and delicious fruits, drinking exquisite wines, and
engaging in sex with virgins (surah 55:54- 56) &
(surah 52:17,19).

[LANMaster]

Also, please confirm or deny the following.

(note: this quote also appeared briefly in the "the French strike again" thread. I have since deleted it from there, because it is more appropriate in here.)

Take not Jews and Christians for friends . . . He among you who takes them for friends is one of them . . . Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scripture before you but keep your duty to Allah (Surah 5:51-57).

For those who do not submit to Allah their punishment is . . . execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet, from the opposite sides, or exile from the land.(Surah 5:33)

Fighting is prescribed for you, and [some of] you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not (Surah 2:16).

Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war (Surah 9:5).

Islam is an Intolerant, Militant and Imperialistic religion of hate and violence. And it is impossible for Allah, the God of the Muslims to be the one and only true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

[LANMaster]

One more thing.

If the above is true, and Muslims are to follow these scriptures "to the letter", then doesn't that mean that all Muslims are OBLIGATED to CONVERT OR KILL all Christians, Jews, and anybody else who will not convert to Islam???

[LANMaster]

from a reply by Al Firdaus ...

Islam is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of Allah, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. The name of God's religion lslam was not decided upon by later generations of man. It was chosen by Allah Himself and clearly mentioned in His final revelation to man.

This is solid proof to me that you and I worship the same God.
We simply call him by a different name, and over the years man has "forked up" the religions. When I say "forked up" that is exactly what I mean.

At the time of Adam and Eve. We shared a common belief system.
The common God.
Your religion and my religion reached a pivital "fork" in the road around the time of Abraham. Do you think that God wanted to split the religion in half? I don't.
It is for that reason that I believe that MAN is responsible for "forking up" the religions.
Some 2000 years ago, Christianity and Judeaism was "forked up" by man.

Jews and Christians worship THE SAME GOD!.

This constant division of the faiths by MAN is the single reason for the religious arrogance that seems to have a root in ALL religions. (that MY GOD is better than YOUR GOD, so neener, neener, neener.)

I say it that way because it is childish the way religions which have the same beginnings claim that their God is the "only God" and that Jews, Muslims, and Christians are not worshipping the same deity.

Al .... you claim that Christians are worshipping a false God.
I submit to you that you and I worship the same One God.

[LANMaster]

The God of Christianity is the father, the son and the holy ghost. And yet, the prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship Allah but those who claim to be his followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was Allah! The First Commandment Thou shalt have none other gods before me. The Father equates to Allah. The Son equates to nothing!

You completely have missed my point.

I can easily point ot the CHANGES made throughout Islam.

Was Muhammed around during the time of Adam and Eve?
Then you MUST, by your own rules, exclude ANY and ALL of his teachings.

Surah must be discounted,
Yusufali must be discounted
Aal'imraan must be discounted
Moses must be discounted
Noah must be discounted

The entire Holy Bible must be discounted.
Old and New Testament
The entire Qur'an must be discounted

For these are scriptures written by MAN.
Who are YOU to say which scripture is the one truly written in the name of God?

Awful arrogant of you and your religion (and me and my religion) to claim that yours is the true religion and mine is a false religion.

I believe that God will judge, quite harshly, those religions which feel an entitlement to the only route to God.

Please think about that.

[deh]

What about the teachings of the Talmud LAN? Any question about that or would questioning that make one anti-semetic?

[oldie]

The question I put to Al-Firdaus is

What is the oldest known copy of the "Koran" and how does it differ, if at all, from modern day teachings?

Most Christians are aware that the oldest known copy of the Bible is held in the Vatican archives. Most Christians are also aware of the numerous different "versions" that have been printed and revised, and revised again, over the centuries resulting in x number of so called "editions" and demoninations!!

Regards - Oldie

[LANMaster]

Originally posted by deh:
What about the teachings of the Talmud LAN? Any question about that or would questioning that make one anti-semetic?

Who is Talmud?
Never heard of him.

[LANMaster]

Oldie,
What do you think of my argument?

(One God worshiped differently due to man's "forking" around with the religions)

[oldie]

Originally posted by LANMaster:
Oldie,
What do you think of my argument?

(One God worshiped differently due to man's "forking" around with the religions)

You don't have an argument. you are simply stating a fact, as is the case with my Bible edition quote. I have just asked my wife if she has any idea how many ??? her reply, do you really wish to know? Incidently her profession was Librarian / Archivist at a University in the UK.

Talmud, to the best of my knowledge is orthodox Jewish teachings - this is an Islamic thread and I hope Al will stay in



Oldie

[Al-Firdaus]

I did not see this until I had already posted in the 'French' thread. My apologies. Perhaps a moderator could move the posts over here. Thank you.

[LANMaster]

I welcome Al's perspective.
My "same God for all 3 major religions" theory is in no way intended to insult. And I truly must plead ignorance about his religion.

[oldie]

Originally posted by Al-Firdaus:
I did not see this until I had already posted in the 'French' thread. My apologies. Perhaps a moderator could move the posts over here. Thank you.

Copy it in (here) Al - will keep this thread in chronological order. Hope you will answer my ? in post number 7

Regards - Oldie

[LANMaster]

Thank you, Al.
I will quote your last from over there - over here.

I asked, "Can you honestly say that Jews and Christians are going to hell?" And your reply,

....... I am not the one who will be judging them. I have no power over them, or anyone else. My judgment counts for naught in the matter of who goes to the Hell-Fire. My concern is only with what I believe, and in my faith in Allah. He categorically states that they are going to the Hell-Fire. And a great many who claim to be of the Islamic faith are going to be right there with them. The reason for this (why all the aforementioned will be cast into the Hell-Fire) are many. You need only click onto the links I have provided to get an understanding of the depth of these people's mistakes. I am not judging them. I only agree with Allah. And who am I to not agree with Allah.

And when did Allah "say" this? (what year) And to whom? Who recorded this speech? A man, perhaps?

I'm not trying to "convert" you, Al. My faith in God is quite personal. I think the word of God (be it Christan, Muslim, or Jewish) should be introduced to people who have never heard the good news before. After that, it should be up to the individual to decide whether to follow any of them or none of them.

Preachers should only be allowed to preach to those who ask, and those who want to listen.

God says (in my preferred scripture) that Jesus is God and that only those who believe this will have salvation. ALL of the rest will be damned.

I think that statement is a grossly mistaken interpretation of God's word. I believe that Jesus IS the incarnation of God. I believe that the faithful Muslim, and the faithful Jew will also inherit heaven. It is the belief in God that matters most.
Our God. Yours and mine are the same God.

[AlbertB]

Ok Al-Firdaus, I'll post this observation here despite the fact you originally posted the quote in the French thread.

The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx.

Are you not aware that only one of those four you have listed is a true religion?

I and others who have knowledge of it as you obviously do not have dealt with Buddhism, you apparently choose not to listen to us and consider what we say.

Confucianism was likewise mainly a philosophy in its original form. Confucius or K'ung-fu-tzu or Kongfuzi was in his time merely a philosopher and certainly neither asked nor expected to be deified. His original teachings make reference to the Gods in a vague way and are concerned with how we conduct our lives on Earth and treat each other. Any religious connotations have been inserted after his death nine years before the birth of Socrates with the more recent entanglement of ancestor worship.

eg. The Master was seriously ill. Tzu-lu asked permission to offer a prayer. The Master said, "Was such a thing ever done?" Tzu-lu said, "Yes it was. The prayer offered was as follows: pray thus to the gods above and below." The Master said, "In that case, I have long been offering my prayers." [VII:35, p. 91] This is interpreted to mean that Confucius had been praying all that was necessary just by being good and polite. Further prayers are unnecessary.

To speak of Marxism as a religion is quite frankly ridiculous with Marxism's objection towards and attempted eradication of religions in its' establishment.



I wish that I could say like LAN that I welcome Al-Firdaus' perspective, but I have yet to see any from him. Disappointing to me as I had hoped we may have had a rational follower of Islam who could give us an insight into its' teaching and not just another fanatic who simply regurgitates the party line and rhetoric!