[pyritechips]

I have yet to see any concrete publication on any actualy aspects of the impending handover at the end of June. If any of you have seen anything official can you please post some links and comment on them? Please: let's not copy/paste huge page length articles filled with legalistic and politicial mumbo-jumbo. I think we would all like to see the salient facts in layman's terms.

I have heard this:

1) The U.S. embassy in Iraq is to be the biggest in the world.

2) 100,000 troops will remain.

3) 14 permanent military bases will be built.

4) Rebuilding funds from America will be administered through the Embassy.

Some thoughts:

As of now, most of the funds spent on rebuilding has been channeled through the American contractors. They have been importing workers; there are even Asian garbage collectors in Baghdad. It is said that Baghdad unemployment is at 60%. Mass unemployment breeds frustration and anger, which will breed hatred and a need to strike out. This can only add to the violence and tension. what is being done to alleviate this situation?

Does the U.S. have a team of Negociators/Councillors in place that are of Middle East descent, Moslem, or that have some conection and understanding of Iraqi customs, culture and needs? I doubt they could take too kindly to white christians with guns. One cannot interact with others at the point of a gun barrel.

[oldie]

Wow. Will have to think deeply regarding this thread

Personally I believe the four points you mentioned may just become a pipe dream !!!

What plan is in progress should there be a change of US President in November?

Oldie

[pyritechips]

Good point Oldie.

Will the next president, in 1 or 5 years, be as zealous about keeping such a presense in Iraq?

[eggplant43]

Kerry says he wants to increase the number of troops stationed in Iraq.

[eggplant43]

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/

[eggplant43]

I've just done a search on this topic, there is simply very little available, and I'd describe the subject as "very fluid" at the moment.

President Bush essentially says the date is set in stone, if that is the case, I can only see this as a "political" decision based on his need to show success in Iraq. Events seem to be conspiring against that outcome, and we'll just have to see if he sticks to his game plan.

Ultimately, this decision should center on what is best for the people of Iraq, while minimizing the threat to the forces of the US, and it's allies. Something that is currently looking less and less possible. There has been much discussion of the "negativity" of those of us who opposed this war from the start, I don't hear those voices now trumpeting "positive solutions" to supporting true democracy in Iraq, one of the stated reasons for our presence.

The Bush Administration describes the problem as the result of the impact of a small minority in Iraq. They must be watching a different situation than I am.

[EdGreene]

I presume Iraq will literally explode in violence soon after the "handover", the Mullahs now jockeying for position only the first of many "Warlords" to engage the others over territory.

While our attention has been focussed on the central and south of Iraq, the Kurds in the north, long protected by our "No fly zone" policy, have quietly moved back into and reclaimed much of their old, disputed territories. They will be loath to give that land up again without a fight. Expect the Kurds to wage war on anyone who wades in with any idea or plan to take back or giving back the territory the Kurds have "won" with a walkover victory.
Any plan that does not take the Kurd's longstanding complaints into account will fail and promote further civil war.

Meanwhile, as long as we Americans are on Iraqi soil we will pay a fearsome price for what is to Iraqis, our hubris and arrogance.

When they are this "Wrong", (on everything, including the economy) the old "My President, right or wrong" bromide is just plain stupid chauvinism.

[eggplant43]

I think you called it exactly.

[Al-Firdaus]

Originally Posted by oldie

Wow. Will have to think deeply regarding this thread

Personally I believe the four points you mentioned may just become a pipe dream !!!Oldie

Hopefully, it already is.

[oldie]

Originally Posted by Al-Firdaus

Hopefully, it already is.

Sir, don't you even think of misquoting me, or leading yourself into believing that I am not for the peace process in it's entirety. I am. But also sad and angered at the present situation. However we will see- we will see. I know of no time in history where evil has triumphed over good !!!

Oldie

[Al-Firdaus]

Originally Posted by oldie

Sir, don't you even think of misquoting me, or leading yourself into believing that I am not for the peace process in it's entirety. I am. But also sad and angered at the present situation. However we will see- we will see. I know of no time in history where evil has triumphed over good !!!

Oldie

First, you were not misquoted. I merely expressed a general agreement with your statement. Second, I could care less regarding your hopes in the peace process. I, for one, am not saddened or angered by the situation there. To Hell with peace. I pray that the killing continues. And that it spreads to each and every spot in the country where a 'coalition' Crusader can be found. (Which is precisely what is beginning to happen, alhamdulila!) And third, you are correct. The evil of democracy will be trumped by the good of Islam. Just as soon as your Crusader 'coalition' is either wiped out, or evicted from Iraq. I pray God will see to this.

[rextilleon]

Al-Fanatidaurus has spoken---He fancies himself a jihadist--of course from the comfort of his home in Maryland---He is merely a member of the Cult of Islam, simliar to a follower of Jim Jones. He adores blood, particularly infidel blood. He worships death and destruction. Unfortunately, unlike his fellow jihadists, he is a coward.

[eggplant43]

Originally Posted by Al-Firdaus

First, you were not misquoted. I merely expressed a general agreement with your statement. Second, I could care less regarding your hopes in the peace process. I, for one, am not saddened or angered by the situation there. To Hell with peace. I pray that the killing continues. And that it spreads to each and every spot in the country where a 'coalition' Crusader can be found. (Which is precisely what is beginning to happen, alhamdulila!) And third, you are correct. The evil of democracy will be trumped by the good of Islam. Just as soon as your Crusader 'coalition' is either wiped out, or evicted from Iraq. I pray God will see to this.

Your ugliness of statement is exceeded only by your true ignorance of the beauty and truth of the Koran, just as those who rode forth to the Crusades were with the Bible. I don't know whether you actually feel the way you state, or just want to stir the pot. In any case, I reject everything you say in the name of goodness, truth, and humanity.

[Stoner]

Al F***** said:

To Hell with peace. I pray that the killing continues.

The trouble with wishes is they sometimes come true.
I don't doubt after this last outburst of yours, there are many
willing to fund your trip back to your hellhole of a paradise so that you
are able to experience this woundrous 'epiphany' of insanity first hand.

F*****, you are obviously, moraly part of the sick circle of insane violence
occuring in the Arab states.
I really believe that you have defined to us, that 'your' 'god' is a beast of hatred,
no better than the devil that drives the greed of Bush and company.

I rarely meet or read of individuals that revel in the suffering of family and foe
alike with only the thought of encouraging more of the same.
I believe such an individual can rightly be called a monster.
Thank you for acurately defining that image.


Jack

[FlashyGirl]

Al-Firdaus:

In another thread I mentioned you should start posting your own thoughts instead of copy-pasting someone else's. But now after seeing the corruption and rot of your own thoughts, perhaps you should go back to using someone else's. I find you a sick and reprehensible human being and i don't believe you speak as the average representative of your religeon.