[EdGreene]

I think I'l call him "Iron A$$" Kerry or "Rusty leg" Kerry or "Him with Iron butt" after reading this story.
_______________________________________
Kerry Still Carries Shrapnel in Leg from Vietnam
Fri Apr 23, 5:51 PM ET Add Politics - Reuters to My Yahoo!

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) still carries a piece of shrapnel in his left thigh from a 1969 Vietnam War wound that led to his second Purple Heart, his doctor said on Friday.

Kerry, the commander of a "swiftboat" in the Mekong Delta in late 1968 and 1969, was hit by the shrapnel in a Feb. 20, 1969, firefight. Dr. Gerald Doyle, Kerry's personal physician, said removal would have required an even wider incision in the leg.

"A decision was made to leave the shrapnel in place," Doyle said in a letter summarizing 35 pages of military medical records taken from Kerry's personal files. "Successful removal would have necessitated an extensive wider exposure."

The Massachusetts senator, who released his military records earlier this week after questions were raised about his first Purple Heart, also made the medical records available for inspection by reporters on Friday.

Doyle briefed reporters on the records in a conference call and released the letter summarizing them. The Navy files released earlier in the week did not include Kerry's medical records.

The records indicated Kerry, who is challenging President Bush (news - web sites) for the White House, had shrapnel removed from his upper left arm in December 1968 and from his upper buttock in March 1969 after he was wounded in action.

Kerry won three Purple Hearts, as well as a Silver Star and Bronze Star, while in Vietnam.

The military records were released by the campaign under pressure from Republicans after one of Kerry's former commanders questioned his first Purple Heart and the severity of the shrapnel wound to Kerry's arm.

Regulations governing Purple Hearts, given for injuries caused by enemy action, do not specify a level of severity for the wounds. The Navy records indicate the first wound was treated with an antibiotic dressing after the shrapnel was removed.

The records also provided some other glimpses into Kerry's health, showing he was diagnosed with pneumonia twice while in the Navy, once in 1966 and once in 1967.

He also suffered from "an episode of an upper respiratory infection and bronchitis, as well as a minor nonspecific urinary tract infection, and both responded to tetracycline successfully," Doyle said.

[Ciberblade]

Ahhh the million dollar wound

[GoneForNow]

minor nonspecific urinary tract infection

I believe the medical profession has come up with a name for this now. Its called gonorrhea.

[AlbertB]

The Clinton tradition lives on !

No, wait a minute, come to think of it Kerry must have got there first. So Bill carried on the tradition of Kerry? Your American politics is so darned hard to follow!

[slickoe]

The Clinton tradition lives on


You folks are reallly reaching. Spend a year or more in a foreign country never knowing when you may be killed and then YOU try to live like Pat Boone. And what is this "Clinton tradition?" Intelligence and sticking to your guns? And as for Kerrey's "million dollar wound", he VOLUNTEERED for his second Nam tour which gave him swiftboat duty and a combat assignment. As a Desert storm vet that says enuf about his character for me. It's funny how mean sprited conservatives can be in their asssessments of Kerrey; they slam him for taking small bits of shrapnel;would he be more patriotic if he had lost an arm or a leg?

[ComputerFix]

"Spend a year or more..."

Fair point. You know Kerry did not, right? According to a NYT article (found right on the front of AOL this morning) he was there for 5 months. It was also Kerry who called himself, along with guys like Ed (since he was there), Eggplant (I believe he said he was there too), and scores of others war criminals, for the "atrocities" (Kerry's word) they all committed. I didn't know that Ed and Egg even knew Kerry while in Vietnam.

Of course, last weekend on Meet the Press, he disavowed these remarks of his. Strong as steel that man is! (Gee Mr. Kerry, was it because you have had time to reflect, or because the press latched onto it during your campaign for President)

As for me, I really don't care if he objected or not. If he did, that's fine, then say so. Don't talk of hazy memories and side-skirting that doesn't pass the sniff test. As you say, character, and I think that standing behind something that you did longer than you spent actually in combat would not be something to shy away from. Clearly he was determined, so why hide and dodge now? Accentuate 5 months "in" over 2 years "out and against"? Politics? Then you just lost my "character vote". I would rather he stuck to his belief, even if it got guys like LAN mad, because then I would know he had the character you speak of.

[slickoe]

He was there for five months but do think he applied for a 5 month tour for some reason? In his 5th month he received his third wound and three purple hearts and you are out. Anything he said in 1971 immediately after the war in 71 must be tempered by the fact that he was much younger and was fresh from a war, a controversial one at that. Are YOU the same person in all respects you were 33 years ago?

[Davey7549]

I think the key here is the severity of the wound. There were many guys in Nam who where injured in combat some more so than John Kerry and they did not receive a purple heart. Maybe it was because they didn't pursue it or it could be they seldom reported those occurrences since they were in patties everyday on recon. We will never know. The sadness of this whole display is many who did sacrifice much went unnoticed and others are exalted through politics for political reasons.
This should not be!
Semper Fidelis is by whom it should be judged and not here by the political parties during the election year 2004!

Dave

[Ciberblade]

I concur

[slickoe]

Yes, Kerrey was an officer we have to remember. When I was in I read somewhere that enlisted men got bronze stars for what zeros got silver stars for.

[Davey7549]

It's all in the bars where we leaf our ambitions and wish for the stars!

Dave

[slickoe]

Hey baby!! Forget that Zero! Come sit with a Hero!!

[EdGreene]

Slickoe:

He was there for five months but do think he applied for a 5 month tour for some reason? In his 5th month he received his third wound and three purple hearts and you are out. Anything he said in 1971 immediately after the war in 71 must be tempered by the fact that he was much younger and was fresh from a war, a controversial one at that. Are YOU the same person in all respects you were 33 years ago?

Three and you’re out” is the rule, not something Kerry made up. For me, it was two and you’re out.

I was there and felt and feel the same way Kerry did after coming home. Where’s the beef? Because most Ex G.I.s are too afraid of being called names is the reason Kerry is getting the flak. Most of those who felt like me and Kerry, afraid of being called traitors, simply took a headlong dive into a bottle or got hooked on drugs, trying to obliterate the scenes running though their dreams.
Kerry (and me from 1966 and on) spoke and speak out then and now. The truth is, Vietnam was a place where a “My Lai” happened every day.
Then again, former Secretary Max Cleland lost limbs in Vietnam, came home and protested the war and look what the Repbulicans did to him.


This spurious, specious “hint of traitorism” conversation about Kerry's actions post Vietnam is what I expected out of knuckle-dragging Right Wingers who don’t understand the rules; or that Vietnam, besides killing tens of thousands and wounding many more, was a failed political and military policy. So is Iraq.

Slickoe:

Yes, Kerrey was an officer we have to remember. When I was in I read somewhere that enlisted men got bronze stars for what zeros got silver stars for

.

Been that way forever.
You win the CMH, he gets the DSC. The unit wins DUC, commander gets the DSC.
The commander gets their award for being the commander.
How the hell else do you think non-combatants like Ike and McArthur (after WW1) got their chests full of “fruit salad”?
_______________________
I chose to write about my experiences and recorded part of it like this in a paper:
“I belabor the point to make a point: I reject the notion that male aggression is `learned' since my daughter's sons are (were) aggressive before they knew the meaning of their aggression. What they really had to learn (unlearn) about their aggression was the punishment (or reward) for their aggressive and sometimes violent behavior.
As a Combat Infantry Drill Instructor with the big Red One First Infantry Division at Fort Riley, Kansas in the sixties, I can truthfully state: I never taught one single soldier `to' kill: I taught them `how' to kill, how to be successful killers, with bayonets and bullets, grenades and bombs. Many of the raw teenage combat infantrymen I trained and went to Vietnam with became `great' killers. Some were even pleasantly shocked by the ease with which they applied their newly learned skills. Others of them, expecting and receiving medals and ribbons for their killing skills, literally delighted in the slaughter. There are many instances of soldiers who, wounded in battle but still ambulatory, leaving hospitals and aid stations ahead of their release dates to return to the killing fields.
We were Combat Infantrymen going into `Free fire' zones carrying extra explosives, grenades and ammunition. The most famous slogan of the Vietnam War grew out of the 'Free fire' experience:
"F*ck it! Kill them all, let GOD sort them out!"

Seventeen-year-old boys-going on men, with twenty-pound machine guns affectionately nicknamed `Baby' or `Sweet Thing', marched, rode or jumped into combat carrying thirty or more pounds of extra ordnance. These young boys killed with the same determined glee my infant grandson had chased his cousins.
Teenagers trained by me killed villages and villagers, buffalos and pigs, dogs and Tigers, birds and snakes, Buddhist Shrines and Catholic orphanages. These under 18-year-old adult/men took childish pleasure in killing other children and their parents. True animal rage and sexual passions ruled him.
Some of the young soldiers coming out of a free fire zone felt as if they had communed with God, others came out in tears: tears for their lost comrades and a seething, full blown anger at those who would muzzle their savage natures, either by military law or political necessity;
sometimes they cried tears of anger because sanity or the lack of targets had stopped the killing”.
-30-
______________
Kerry was nearly as specific. What some of us did out of duty and in anger we regret today. But nothing, especially denials by those who were not there, nor the shouts of mealy-mouth superpatriots on either side, will change what we did**.
**“If you’ve never ridden the “Pale Horse”, made men and women and children die by your own hands, brought desolation and misery to many, you really ought to keep quiet about it because you speak with a “blind” tongue.

Davey:

I think the key here is the severity of the wound. There were many guys in Nam who where injured in combat some more so than John Kerry and they did not receive a purple heart.

Purple Hearts are investigated just like any other meritorious award. A wound received by enemy action while in combat against the enemy gets you the Purple Heart: otherwise, getting wounded gets you quat.

Maybe it was because they didn't pursue it or it could be they seldom reported those occurrences since they were in patties everyday on recon. We will never know. The sadness of this whole display is many who did sacrifice much went unnoticed and others are exalted through politics for political reasons.

Every dead G.I. killed or wounded in combat against the enemy gets the Purple Heart. No one is “overlooked”. The Purple Heart was (is) this countries first military award. We may classify a G.I. MIA but they still get the Purple Heart.

This should not be!

Tisn’t!

Semper Fidelis is by whom it should be judged and not here by the political parties during the election year 2004

!

Another thing I don’t like is that mindless, thoughtless, “Semper Fi” attitude. It was Dubya’s own similar false “Semper Fi” bravado that led to GW 2 and this fine military and political mess (for him) we all find ourselves in.

[slickoe]

Kerrey is a politician. It takes money to get elected, big money, and there is only one place to get that kind of money unless you are a Forbes. And noone is just going to hand you bags of cash not expecting SOMETHING in return. What is advisable is to look at WHERE the money is coming from and then look the mans voting record. Does he sit on the armed services committee and take money from defense related industry? Does he sponsor a lot of legislation regarding OSHA rules and enforcement or labor legislation and then take money from the teamsters or the AFL-CIO? Does he (in one instance) take a 10,000 dollar speaking fee from AT&T ONE DAY before a crucial antitrust vote? Sadly, we cannot rely on the mainstream press to inform us of these details, we get sound bites, attack ads, and not much more than fluff from the candidates themselves for the most part, and who wants to get up early on a sunday for meet the press?

[EdGreene]

he was there for 5 months.

He was in combat for five months. But an hour in combat is a lifetime elsewhere.

It was also Kerry who called himself, along with guys like Ed (since he was there), Eggplant (I believe he said he was there too), and scores of others war criminals, for the "atrocities" (Kerry's word) they all committed. I didn't know that Ed and Egg even knew Kerry while in Vietnam.

One thing Christians believe is confession is not only good for the soul, it cleanses the person, preparing them for heaven. And no, I was in and out before Kerry got there.
But I would no want anyone to think Kerry was alone in what he confessed, nor is he alone in how he felt and feels among many of us. His rhetorical "we" in his confession was not rhetorical in that he spoke for tons of combat grunts who have not spoken out, afraid of the abuse they would get from Americans for doing so.

Of course, last weekend on Meet the Press, he disavowed these remarks of his. Strong as steel that man is!

That kind of acidic comment typifies what I meant. And this:

(Gee Mr. Kerry, was it because you have had time to reflect, or because the press latched onto it during your campaign for President)

Actually, fear has crept into his speech because of comments like yours. We know, at least his face to face combat record shows, he has no "fear" of his mortal, sworn enemies. But he has come to fear people like yourself who doubt, people who poke fun, people like you who can't let his human (changeable) side be...human.

...you spent actually in combat would not be something to shy away from.

One last time it does not matter how long he spent in combat; does not matter. He served, with honor and heroic distinction.
The "content of his character" has been proved. It is those like you who badger, deprecate, cast aspersions that make Kerry (and all who aspire to politics) edgy, even desperate to please. But I gather there is no pleasing some.
What I have heard Kerry say is: "I would have phrased it differently today". It that what you and those like you infer when you say he somehow has retracted his earlier words?
As I remember, just recently, Dubya, who himself is shady, elusive and stuttering in his answers to his supposed service in Alabama, himself "Flip-flopped" on whether Condi would testify: first he said she would not, "I directed her not to", then he said she would (could). What "changed" there? Why couldn't Dubya stand by his word? What made him flip-flop?
Hmm?

Or is that not a "flip-flop"?