[Ciberblade]

John Kerry, the Democrats' presumptive presidential nominee, will have a fund raiser in Louisville on May 11.

Alright...I may have allowed media and others to possibly skew my image of this man, so taking a lead from my own analytical handbook, I shall meet and discuss with him, views on issues that I feel strongly about -- as well as those mentioned here. I would be glad to mention (reasonable) things from those here if desired.
Until then I will not make any judgments for/against

Ciber~

[slickoe]

Bottom line--he's a democrat, not a republican- which doesn't count for much these days but still counts for something.

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by slickoe

Bottom line--he's a democrat, not a republican- which doesn't count for much these days but still counts for something.

Being a Democrat/Republican/whatever counts for nothing as far as I am concerned. What really matters to me are the issues and the character of the man.

[slickoe]

Right. Issues. As far as character goes, the further a man goes in politics the more of his character he sheds, like a snake shedding his skin. The dems are not as WHOLLY beholden to big business as the GOP so that is why he will get my vote, as the dems still seem to focus more on individual Americans and their needs rather than protecting corporate interests.

[Ciberblade]

beholden to big business applies to both parties...heck Kerry himself is part of the Heinz family, can't get much bigger! I believe there is a lack of focus on individual Americans throughout, which is why I don't do the party thing.
I really like the snake analogy

[slickoe]

I honestly think Kerrey is being given a bum rap. I like the fact that he went from being a gung ho warrior to a radical leftist in a very short order. That just thrills me to no end that a man like that MIGHT be our president. A US president no longer has the power he once did, not since Nov 22. 1963 anyhow, and Kerrey (or any pol) must coopt himself and his convictions if he wants to get ANYTHING accomplished in DC. Still I think Kerrey the president would be a lot different than Kerrey the Senator, I think he might try to shake things up. And we've GOT to get the deficit under control. I can't see any republican doing that; it just isn't a priority.

[Ciberblade]

I wouldn't jump to radical leftist -- and from an economical point of view, we must not get rid of the deficit completely, it would be devastating! And please don't fall for the "surplus" BS, those were projected estimates based on stock dividends returns. (which are double taxed).

[flyeater]

which are double taxed

I've never understood this concept. The company represented by the stock pays taxes on their net not their gross. Then dividends are payed out which are taxed. Using this logic since I pay a sales tax the company shouldn't have to pay any taxes on the income.
Each individual company/investor only pays one tax not two. There is no double taxation.
The IRS was neutered once by the GOP & now more people/companies cheat then ever. If we all payed our fair taxes everyone would see a huge tax cut. Some say by as much as 15%.
Tax games

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by flyeater

There is no double taxation.

I'm afraid so...my spouse works in the industry and deals with the IRS on a weekly basis. http://www.taxfoundation.org/fiscalfacttable.html
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p564/ar02.html#d0e1592

[flyeater]

I don't see where either of those links state your case. I would even say that the taxfoundation.org link shows the opposite.
Warren Buffet made the argument far better then I could in his peice.
Can you give me the basic layout of the double tax?
Your payroll income is taxed. If you invest in stocks and make a profit through dividends that income is taxed separately.
Where's the double tax?
Now if you want to talk about taxing Social Security income that's a different kettle of fish.

[Cora]

I'm voting for Kerry. He seems more as honest ( as honest as a politician can get). And I agree he is concerned with the average american and their welfare versus the large corporations.

[Ciberblade]

I'm sure we can post supporting articles for either side, I'll stick with the IRS.

Originally Posted by The Washington Times, February 4, 2003

Dividend-paying companies pay about 35 percent of their income in federal taxes. Taxpayers who receive dividends usually pay between 28 to 39 percent of this income in federal taxes. State and local taxes take another bite out this income. Ask yourself: "Is that fair?" Should anyone, especially older Americans who worked hard their whole life, saved and invested for their retirement, have to pay taxes on their savings twice?

By:Larry Craig
Article titled:Quit double-taxing seniors

[flyeater]

"Dividend-paying companies pay about 35 percent of their income in federal taxes."
That should read "companies should pay". Most don't. In fact some companies such as Phizer & Pepsico receive refunds.
"Taxpayers who receive dividends usually pay between 28 to 39 percent of this income in federal taxes. State and local taxes take another bite out this income.Ask yourself: "Is that fair?"
Again to my point earlier, if I pay a federal income tax then have to pay a state sales tax how is that unfair?
"Should anyone, especially older Americans who worked hard their whole life, saved and invested for their retirement, have to pay taxes on their savings twice?"
Again they don't pay twice. They pay a federal income tax on income & possibly a separate state tax.
Larry Craig, the NRA's man in Washington, titles the article "Quit double-taxing seniors" which leads one to think it's about taxing SS benefits which it's not.
BTW if you can link the articles you quote it would help. The idea that Rev. Moon's Washington Times ran that op-ed piece is a given of course.
Try this again Ciber.
You earn income from an employment position. You pay tax on that income. You take part of that income & invest it. If you earn an income through those investments you pay an income tax on the earnings. Not the initial investment.
The XYZ Corp. pays a corporate income tax, but not always, on their net not gross income. After all expenses have been removed & taxes paid there may be a disbursement to investors.
Show me where the "double tax" is.
Keep in mind this is not an issue regarding SS benefits or even the AMT liability. AMT is certainly a complicated mess that needs to be fixed but let's just deal with income taxes for now.

[Stoner]

Hello flyeater,

you said:

If you invest in stocks and make a profit through dividends that income is taxed separately.

I think this is where your missing the issue.
A stock holder does not, repete, not make a profit through dividends.
A stock holder is an owner or part owner of a corporation whose purpose is to generate profit.
The corporation generates a profit.(if the owner/s are lucky )
That profit is taxed by the Feds accordingly.
After distribution of this taxed profit to the owners of the corporation, the Federal government taxes the individual share holder again, as a personal income tax.
No 'profit' was generated by the disbursment to the share holders. And yet it was taxed. Thus, the money belonging to the share holder was indeed taxed twice before the IRS was satisfied.


Back to the original premise of the thread:

I shall meet and discuss with him, views on issues that I feel strongly about -- as well as those mentioned here. I would be glad to mention (reasonable) things from those here if desired.

Really? Is Kerry doing a "townhall'er down your way, Ciberblade?

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by Stoner

Really? Is Kerry doing a "townhall'er down your way, Ciberblade?

Funny, and umm...yup There is supposed to be a short Q&A for those who attend kinda lookin' forward to it.