[EdGreene]

100% Bible believers will be disappointed: reasons below
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April 26, 2004
Expedition Will Seek to Find Noah's Ark

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By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - An expedition is being planned for this summer to the upper reaches of Turkey's Mount Ararat where organizers hope to prove an object nestled amid the snow and ice is Noah's Ark.

A joint U.S.-Turkish team of 10 explorers plans to make the arduous trek up Turkey's tallest mountain, at 17,820 feet, from July 15 to August 15, subject to the approval of the Turkish government, said Daniel P. McGivern, president of Shamrock_The Trinity Corporation of Honolulu, Hawaii.

The goal: to enter what they believe to be a mammoth structure some 45 feet high, 75 feet wide and up to 450 feet long that was exposed in part by last summer's heat wave in Europe.

"We are not excavating it. We are not taking any artifacts. We're going to photograph it and, God willing, you're all going to see it," McGivern said.

Explorers have long searched for an ark on the high slopes of Mount Ararat, where the biblical account of the Great Flood places it.

In 1957, Turkish air force pilots spotted a boat-shaped formation in Agri province. The government did not pursue the sighting, however. The entire area, including Mount Ararat, was off limits to foreigners because of Soviet complaints that explorers were U.S. spies.

That ban was lifted in 1982, and since then teams of explorers have visited the area but have been unable to substantiate any claim of an ark.

McGivern and Ahmet Ali Arslan, a Turkish mountain climber who grew up in a town near Mount Ararat, say satellite photos have helped them pinpoint a more exact location. Arslan will be leading the expedition.

The biblical account in the Book of Genesis says that after the great deluge, the ark came to rest on the mountain with Noah's family and a cargo of male and female pairs of every kind of animal.

Geologists say even though there is evidence of a flood in Mesopotamia in Sumerian times, it is not possible for a ship to make landfall at an altitude as high as Mount Ararat.
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Two reasons why there is no Noah's Ark: the first, given above says

"it is not possible for a ship to make landfall at an altitude as high as Mount Ararat.

What the above does not tell you is: all the water there ever had been on Earth is either presently still in oceans-rivers-lakes-ponds above or in undergound resevoirs.
What does that mean? In order for "The Flood" to have occurred, the water needed to rise 17,000 feet would still be present either on or under the surface, or suspended in the atmosphere. Since that amount of water is not in the atmosphere or underground, no "Flood".
I know, you say: "It evaporated".
The scientific question is: evaporated to where? The extra water could not have floated off into space (gravity prevents that). No "Flood".
The second reason, far more mundane is so practical even a third grader can understand:
The Pyramids were more than 800 years old when the so-called "Flood" happened ([i]approximately 2,000 B.C.E. using references gleaned from Bible texts)
"So" you say, "what does that prove"?
There are no high or low water marks either inside or on the face of the Pyramids.
The fact is, the Great Pyramid" is bone dry and has been that way since it was built.

No "Flood", no "Noah's Ark", no "Noah".

The End

[brushmaster1]

One more point:

The Bible says nothing about Mount Ararat (which was named long after biblical times); all the bible says is that the ark came to rest on "a mountain in Ararat"...and there is no common consensus on where Ararat may have been. It's like a lot of Biblical locations... rather vague.

Some more examples:
Eden
Mount Sinai
Sodom
Gomorrah

The Jews, whatever else they may have been, were no better geographers than they were mathematicians.

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by EdGreene

all the water there ever had been on Earth is either presently still in oceans-rivers-lakes-ponds above or in undergound resevoirs.
What does that mean? In order for "The Flood" to have occurred, the water needed to rise 17,000 feet would still be present either on or under the surface, or suspended in the atmosphere. Since that amount of water is not in the atmosphere or underground, no "Flood".
I know, you say: "It evaporated".
The scientific question is: evaporated to where? The extra water could not have floated off into space (gravity prevents that). No "Flood".

That is very interesting "scientific" information, however we now know that Mars once had water...is it all underground now?

[pyritechips]

I just posted in another thread, stating that some people are desparate to prove the existance of Saddams WMP stockpiles, not so much to justify the Iraqi invasion but to lend credence to their own doubt. I feel a need to prove the Arc "real" is a similar effort of Christians unclear on the concept...

Faith doesn't need physical proof.

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by pyritechips

Faith doesn't need physical proof.

Exactly!

[EdGreene]

Originally Posted by brushmaster1

One more point:

The Bible says nothing about Mount Ararat (which was named long after biblical times); all the bible says is that the ark came to rest on "a mountain in Ararat"...and there is no common consensus on where Ararat may have been. It's like a lot of Biblical locations... rather vague.

Some more examples:
Eden
Mount Sinai
Sodom
Gomorrah

The Jews, whatever else they may have been, were no better geographers than they were mathematicians.

I'm sure glad you said that and not me.

"St. Catherine" (Emperor Constantine's Mommy) named Gebel Musa (Mountain of Moses) on the Sinai Peninsula, long called by that name by indigenous people of the region (Not "Arabs" by the way) "Mount Sinai", named the flats of Gommorah "Sodom and Gomorrah".

"Eden" was common appellation for "garden", and the so-called "Garden of Eden" is generally accepted to be the valley lying between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers.

Yah, once Catherine had been sainted, she went on another naming binge, having named most of the familiar places we know in the New Testament, including the "Tomb" where Jesus is supposed to have lain on her first trip to the "Holy Lnd".

Quite the ambitious "Saint" this Catherine, Mother of the Emperor (God on Earth, reason enough for the newly empowered Christian Church to "Saint" her).
Hers was one of the first statues of former Roman Gods and Goddesses who were literally dismissed as Gods and Goddesses in favor of the mass renaming of the statues as Christian "Saints".
God after God fell: Saint after Saint rose in their places.
Of course the more immodestly clothed ("nekkid" women Goddesses and Nymphs) were destroyed outright since "Saint" Catherine was a woman of impeccable virtue, herself having given birth to a "God".
(See a pattern there?)

And now you know the rest of the story; ...G'day!

[pyritechips]

From the first line of the article: "...where organizers hope to prove an object nestled amid the snow and ice is Noah's Ark.
..."

Error.

In science, one a) gathers observations then b) draws conclusion from those observations.

I fear what is afoot here is that "believers" have a) already drawn conclusions (The artifact on Mt. Ararat is indeed the Arc, thereby proving the Old Testiment) and are going to the site to b) gather the observations that will support their conclusions and possibly overlook contradicting observations.

The expedition may assauge some people's shaky faith but I await a formal paper before deciding whether it will be sound science or not.

[rextilleon]

Two years from now they will be selling 'splinters' from the Ark as relics on Home Shopping Network.

[Pacalis]

Since this team will be in Turkey , perhaps after they find the Arc, they might drop down into Iraq. Bush is still looking for some WMD's. I think they have about the same chance of finding either one .