[EdGreene]

Chickenhawk n. A person enthusiastic about war, provided someone else fights it; particularly when that enthusiasm is undimmed by personal experience with war; most emphatically when that lack of experience came in spite of ample opportunity in that person’s youth.

What a lousy, Chickenhawk record the G.O.P. has. I never knew how much hot air about "patriotism" one political Party could blow until I read the lists.
See below URLs
_____________________________________
Who served in The Military?
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

http://www.nhgazette.com
http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHG...20Chickenhawks

[THoey]

What does it matter? Pat Tillman had millions and a life of luxury, gave it up to serve and eventually die for his country, and he is no better than anyone else...

[slickoe]

Jimmy Carter, George McGovern, Michael Dukakis, Teddy Kennedy, Al Gore, John Kerry come to mind first, without doing any searching.............

[bassetman]

J.F.K., Bob Dole, John McCain, to name a few more.

[LANMaster]

George H.W. Bush
Dwight D. Eisenhower


.... and lets not forget this military genius ...

Here's your chicken-hawk, Ed.

[slickoe]

Bush Sr. was the youngest Naval aviator shot down in combat. Too bad the apple fell pretty damn far from THAT tree.

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

George H.W. Bush
Dwight D. Eisenhower


.... and lets not forget this military genius ...

Here's your chicken-hawk, Ed.

I think the question was who served not just enlisted Lan!

[pyritechips]

* Off Topic *

As a Canadian not familiar with all the vagaries of American social and political values, why is a politician's military service of such importance? It seems every politician has his military record dragged under the microscope. Does it really matter who enlisted with what branch of service, what "action" he saw and what awards he garnered?

I see the same scrutiny given to people either for or against a policy. When a apeaker for a perticular side is quoted it is also mentioned where he served and for how long. It seems as if time served adds extra weight to the argument. Question: how does length of service and combat experience lend extra credence to a person's viewpoint?

* On Topic *

[LANMaster]

Link relivant to this thread.

[LANMaster]

Hi Jim,
In responding to your "off topic" querry;

In the US, we do tend to treat our successful Military personnel with a reverence slightly above the average citizen because of the sacrifice and risk that person has taken in the name of his/her country.

Whether that should come up in a debate about the price of tea in China is another thing entirely. But when choosing one's top leader, who will have the power to send the country's military into harm's way, I think it makes a fair difference. Our President Bush served, but not in a combat role. Had he been called to combat, who knows what would have been the result. I honor John Kerry's service, and I would not like to have been in his shoes during those years. But the way he dishonored the entire military and the US Government in 1971 is completely inexcusable to me.

* back on topic *

[Fidelista]

Had Mr Cheney , Mr Wolfowitz, Mr Rumsfeld been called to combat, who knows what what would have been the result. Maybe things would have worked out better!
Seriously, service in combat might make a change in ones attitude about war. I think people like Mr Powell reflect that.People being ripped apart has to change ones view of war.
The military service thing going on now, Bush awol--Kerry doesnt deserve his decorations--is silly, I have always thought the next war is more important than the last. Also, in defense of the adminstration, how many rich, white , sons of influential parents would choose to go to S.E Asia to fight, Republican or Democrat?? . When you are rich and have so many options before you--you can make the 'Cheney choice'.
As we look at who famous served, it should also be noted that WW-2 was an entirely different situation , not at all like the disaster in Viet-Nam. I tend to see these things like Pyritchips, but understand American feelings. If John Wayne were alive today......just kidding!

[EdGreene]

Fidelista;

If John Wayne were alive today......just kidding!

Good thing too, since "Marion" didn't serve one day!

[ground_0]

I never served either. Am I less of an American? Less of a human being?

I don't wish to denegrate those whose life included military service either by choice or against their will. It is to be applauded. But I don't see it as a benchmark. If one must find heros, try any local hospital or clinic where doctors and nurses work outrageous hours to save lives everyday. The police officer who ensures the safety of our streets. The firefighter who goes out in freezing temps in the middle of the night to save a perfect stranger. Not military service, but a service none-the-less.

I respect the soldier, but not the politician-soldier who "uses" his service.

[Fidelista]

Well said!!

[EdGreene]

Originally Posted by ground_0

I never served either. Am I less of an American? Less of a human being?

I don't wish to denegrate those whose life included military service either by choice or against their will. It is to be applauded. But I don't see it as a benchmark. If one must find heros, try any local hospital or clinic where doctors and nurses work outrageous hours to save lives everyday. The police officer who ensures the safety of our streets. The firefighter who goes out in freezing temps in the middle of the night to save a perfect stranger. Not military service, but a service none-the-less.

I respect the soldier, but not the politician-soldier who "uses" his service.

You were against Ike and JFK? McArthur? Grant?

I understand your position. But some have higher goals, different benchmarks: NFL star Tillman wanted to serve his country in combat.
Me? This 17 year-old snot-faced kid enlisted on his 17th birthday because he always wanted to be a soldier all his life. Eight months to the day later I exited an aircraft over Grafenvehr Germany. My sig tells the rest of the story.

Here is the crux of the matter: those who served have a special bond with each other. Like your High School, service "brands" you. Those who did not or do not serve will not, cannot know the feelings. "Bonding" is a word used far too lightly these days. But those who have bonded with others under school or club colors know a little of what I'm saying.
But those who do not, have not served will never know what it is to salute the United States Flag in a foreign land, or stand fast under the Star and Stripes with other soldiers as our relatives look on.
I know no soldier who has not teared once in a while as they held a salute as the Star Spangled Banner" played:The soldier who does not, has not teared under the Flag is not a patriot.
Service, especially in combat, tempers you, hardens you in ways mere life and living cannot.

I met my early benchmarks. But I also served under a Commander (then Captain Lloyd "Scooter" Burke) who won the Congressional Medal Of Honor in Korea at the age of 19.
Which civilian should I then look up to?
What mere mortal could live up to that standard?
Knowing "Scooter" was leading my company in a parade is a thrill I recall to this day.

That's what "serving" is all about.

"Here's to us Scooter;
And those like us,
And the damn few of us left"