[Stoner]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3672901.stm

[oldie]

It always happens, always at least one bad apple in a barrel, not often is it a General though

Oldie

[shortnpretty]

Originally Posted by oldie

It always happens, always at least one bad apple in a barrel, not often is it a General though

Oldie

You are right Oldie, "always at least one bad apple." I hope those that are guilty are punished severely. Not only were they wrong in the cruelest manner, but they are an embarrassment.

I understand that it was also an American soldier who reported the abuse and turned over evidence that included photographs. I can only hope that most will understand the courage it took for this soldier to come forward, showing that not all Americans condone this, and will even turn in their own, because it is the right thing to do.

[oldie]

Absolutely SnP. The repercussions of this kind of behaviour are what concerns me most How it will be used against the coalition forces, and the dishonour it will bring to those involved, their regiments - units and so forth. Their families - the list is endless

Not to mention the language being used behind closed doors of those in authority, political and military

Regards - Oldie

[DNeurococo]

Trouble is, it is not just ONE bad apple. In this one incident alone, seventeen have been cited, including a general. The total number of people involved, or who had knowledge is probably even greater.

This incident echoes a similar incident involving British soldiers who took pictures of themselves abusing prisoners.

Allegations of prisoner abuse are all too common, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo.

Sadly, none of the people involved are even being charged with criminal offenses.

Also, the U.S. military has a long history of merely giving a slap on the wrist to soldiers involved in the most horrendous crimes. For example, Bob Kerrey, Lieutenant Calley, Scott Waddle, Will Rogers (capt., Vincennes), Schmidt-Umbach, Richard Ashby, etc. Nothing much has happened to these guys.

It is hypocritical for the Military brass to say that they are shocked by these findings - - and then absolutely fail to take any serious measures against the people involved - - despite the most damning evidence - - pictures of the soldiers posing proudly in pictures.

I'll predict nothing serious happens to them. No jail time. Perhaps discharge from the service. Maybe not even that.

P.S. See also my comments about cilvilian involvement in the thread "Mercenaries in Iraq".

[LANMaster]

I am FURIOUS about this. :angry:

[oldie]

Originally Posted by DNeurococo

This incident echoes a similar incident involving British soldiers who took pictures of themselves abusing prisoners.

Where ? When ? We Are talking actual torture here, not simple heavy handedness

As for no action being taken against those involved, that is not the view of the BBC who, as I type, are interviewing the Geneva connection

Regards - Oldie

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by oldie

Absolutely SnP. The repercussions of this kind of behaviour are what concerns me most How it will be used against the coalition forces, and the dishonour it will bring to those involved, their regiments - units and so forth. Their families - the list is endless

Not to mention the language being used behind closed doors of those in authority, political and military

Regards - Oldie

The repercussions

This is a concern of mine, also, oldie.
When reading outakes from the BBC:

The graphic images include one of a hooded and naked prisoner standing on a box with wires attached to his genitals. CBS said the prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted.

Another shows naked prisoners being forced to simulate sex acts. In another, a female soldier, with a cigarette in her mouth, simulates holding a gun and pointing at a naked Iraqi's genitals.

I see a clearer image of Iraqi complaints.
Non of the actions of the offenders were taught by our culture, but were learned here, nontheless.

Many months ago I posted a picture of US soldiers using a downed Iraqi soldier as target practice. Thru the objections of some at TSG, I struggled to point out that that film clip was being seen by Iraqis also, and that was sure to pull many Iraqi civilians, bystanders, into the frey as a 'circle of violence and hatred' fed on itself and grew out of proportion.

Now this.





by one of those US soldiers arrested at the prison:

"We had no support, no training whatsoever. And I kept asking my chain of command for certain things... like rules and regulation

Since when did any member of our society need a written command specifically prohibiting the actions at that prison?


I suspect the imagery of US female soldiers abusing Iraqis with sexual implications is going to be very costly in this Islamic land.

[DNeurococo]

Oldie: For info on the previous incident involving British soldiers taking pictures of abuse see:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...177766554.html

P.S. I wrote that no criminal charges were being filed. I was referring to the U.S. military. They will institute court martial proceedings against selected individuals, but I do not see much coming from that - - discharge from the service at most - - like the long list of people I cited above, some of whom did not even receive discharge (Vincennes Cpt. Will Rogers was promoted and given a medal after the shoot-down of the Iranian Air-Bus).

As to the BBC, I don't see what they can do about it - - other than research the particular laws violated with regard to the Geneva Convention, and call for the U.S. Military to take action - - which they won't.

[oldie]

Stoner I hear where you are coming from, so kindly allow me to state what would happen if this had been a British officer.

(1) Court Martial

(2) No defence

(3) Stripped of rank, with subordinate witnesses

(4) Dishonourable discharge from her Majesty's Service

(5) All pension rights revoked

Old fashioned perhaps, But!

Oldie ( Ex commissioned Officer Royal Navy )

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by From one of the indicted US soldiers

"We had no support, no training whatsoever. And I kept asking my chain of command for certain things... like rules and regulation

Originally Posted by Stoner

Since when did any member of our society need a written command specifically prohibiting the actions at that prison?

I suspect the imagery of US female soldiers abusing Iraqis with sexual implications is going to be very costly in this Islamic land.

This puke expected someone in command to inform him that you shouldn't hook Iraqi prisoners up to electrical wires?
I'd like to see some of the HARSHEST penalties possible, including execution, meated out in this SERIES OF CASES.

I have to sign off for a few minutes. my fingers are sore from POUNDING my keyboard in this post.

I cannot remember when I have been this angry.

[Ciberblade]

[LANMaster]

This is a shot of a female US soldier humiliating an Iraqi prisoner while a number of Iraqi male prisoners stand naked in front of her.

Imagine what this does to troop morale among the respectable, honest, and honorable soldiers.

[LANMaster]

What the heck is THIS!
Were the prison guards making them play naked twister?

S I C K !

[oldie]

DN - thanks for the link - and yes I was fully aware of that incident - but no more serious than what happens on our streets each night As for this threads implications - God only knows - we need bloody friends not enemies - this is a General who is implicated in the incident

Oldie