There's no such thing as a stupid question, but they're the easiest to answer.
JoinTour
Login
 
Tag Cloud
acer black screen blue screen boot bsod computer connection crash css dell display driver drivers email error excel explorer firefox firefox 3 game hard drive internet internet explorer itunes laptop lcd linux malware network networking nvidia outlook outlook 2003 outlook express partition printer problem ram router slow sound sprtcmd.exe trojan usb video virus vista windows windows xp wireless
Civilized Debate
Search
Search in:
 
Advanced Search
Tech Support Guy Forums > Community > Civilized Debate >
What have we become


HELLO AND WELCOME! Before you can post your question, you'll have to register -- it's completely free! Click here to join today! We highly recommend that you print a copy of our Guide for New Members. Enjoy!

 
Thread Tools
Stoner's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 34,049 posts.
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dayton,Oh
30-Apr-2004, 08:13 AM #1
oldie's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 4,996 posts.
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Middle of the Med.
Experience: Embryonic Stage
30-Apr-2004, 09:33 AM #2
It always happens, always at least one bad apple in a barrel, not often is it a General though

Oldie
shortnpretty's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 2,644 posts.
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: West Central Arkansas
Experience: Enough to be dangerous
30-Apr-2004, 10:38 AM #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldie
It always happens, always at least one bad apple in a barrel, not often is it a General though

Oldie
You are right Oldie, "always at least one bad apple." I hope those that are guilty are punished severely. Not only were they wrong in the cruelest manner, but they are an embarrassment.

I understand that it was also an American soldier who reported the abuse and turned over evidence that included photographs. I can only hope that most will understand the courage it took for this soldier to come forward, showing that not all Americans condone this, and will even turn in their own, because it is the right thing to do.
__________________
§hortÑPretty-aka Tonya
"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves"...Will Rogers
oldie's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 4,996 posts.
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Middle of the Med.
Experience: Embryonic Stage
30-Apr-2004, 11:02 AM #4
Absolutely SnP. The repercussions of this kind of behaviour are what concerns me most How it will be used against the coalition forces, and the dishonour it will bring to those involved, their regiments - units and so forth. Their families - the list is endless

Not to mention the language being used behind closed doors of those in authority, political and military

Regards - Oldie
__________________
Humour is by far the most significant activity of the human brain.
Edward De Bono NEW THINKING
DNeurococo's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 2,648 posts.
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
30-Apr-2004, 11:29 AM #5
Trouble is, it is not just ONE bad apple. In this one incident alone, seventeen have been cited, including a general. The total number of people involved, or who had knowledge is probably even greater.

This incident echoes a similar incident involving British soldiers who took pictures of themselves abusing prisoners.

Allegations of prisoner abuse are all too common, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo.

Sadly, none of the people involved are even being charged with criminal offenses.

Also, the U.S. military has a long history of merely giving a slap on the wrist to soldiers involved in the most horrendous crimes. For example, Bob Kerrey, Lieutenant Calley, Scott Waddle, Will Rogers (capt., Vincennes), Schmidt-Umbach, Richard Ashby, etc. Nothing much has happened to these guys.

It is hypocritical for the Military brass to say that they are shocked by these findings - - and then absolutely fail to take any serious measures against the people involved - - despite the most damning evidence - - pictures of the soldiers posing proudly in pictures.

I'll predict nothing serious happens to them. No jail time. Perhaps discharge from the service. Maybe not even that.

P.S. See also my comments about cilvilian involvement in the thread "Mercenaries in Iraq".

Last edited by DNeurococo : 30-Apr-2004 11:51 AM.
LANMaster's Avatar
Community Moderator with 43,627 posts.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central USA
Experience: Need no stinking badges
30-Apr-2004, 11:39 AM #6
I am FURIOUS about this. :angry:
oldie's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 4,996 posts.
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Middle of the Med.
Experience: Embryonic Stage
30-Apr-2004, 11:44 AM #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNeurococo

This incident echoes a similar incident involving British soldiers who took pictures of themselves abusing prisoners.
Where ? When ? We Are talking actual torture here, not simple heavy handedness

As for no action being taken against those involved, that is not the view of the BBC who, as I type, are interviewing the Geneva connection

Regards - Oldie
Stoner's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 34,049 posts.
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dayton,Oh
30-Apr-2004, 11:44 AM #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldie
Absolutely SnP. The repercussions of this kind of behaviour are what concerns me most How it will be used against the coalition forces, and the dishonour it will bring to those involved, their regiments - units and so forth. Their families - the list is endless

Not to mention the language being used behind closed doors of those in authority, political and military

Regards - Oldie
Quote:
The repercussions
This is a concern of mine, also, oldie.
When reading outakes from the BBC:
Quote:
The graphic images include one of a hooded and naked prisoner standing on a box with wires attached to his genitals. CBS said the prisoner was told that if he fell off the box, he would be electrocuted.

Another shows naked prisoners being forced to simulate sex acts. In another, a female soldier, with a cigarette in her mouth, simulates holding a gun and pointing at a naked Iraqi's genitals.
I see a clearer image of Iraqi complaints.
Non of the actions of the offenders were taught by our culture, but were learned here, nontheless.

Many months ago I posted a picture of US soldiers using a downed Iraqi soldier as target practice. Thru the objections of some at TSG, I struggled to point out that that film clip was being seen by Iraqis also, and that was sure to pull many Iraqi civilians, bystanders, into the frey as a 'circle of violence and hatred' fed on itself and grew out of proportion.

Now this.





by one of those US soldiers arrested at the prison:
Quote:
"We had no support, no training whatsoever. And I kept asking my chain of command for certain things... like rules and regulation
Since when did any member of our society need a written command specifically prohibiting the actions at that prison?


I suspect the imagery of US female soldiers abusing Iraqis with sexual implications is going to be very costly in this Islamic land.
__________________
"The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done." G.C.

-------------------------------------------->
DNeurococo's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 2,648 posts.
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
30-Apr-2004, 11:56 AM #9
Oldie: For info on the previous incident involving British soldiers taking pictures of abuse see:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...177766554.html

P.S. I wrote that no criminal charges were being filed. I was referring to the U.S. military. They will institute court martial proceedings against selected individuals, but I do not see much coming from that - - discharge from the service at most - - like the long list of people I cited above, some of whom did not even receive discharge (Vincennes Cpt. Will Rogers was promoted and given a medal after the shoot-down of the Iranian Air-Bus).

As to the BBC, I don't see what they can do about it - - other than research the particular laws violated with regard to the Geneva Convention, and call for the U.S. Military to take action - - which they won't.

Last edited by DNeurococo : 30-Apr-2004 12:06 PM.
oldie's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 4,996 posts.
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Middle of the Med.
Experience: Embryonic Stage
30-Apr-2004, 12:01 PM #10
Stoner I hear where you are coming from, so kindly allow me to state what would happen if this had been a British officer.

(1) Court Martial

(2) No defence

(3) Stripped of rank, with subordinate witnesses

(4) Dishonourable discharge from her Majesty's Service

(5) All pension rights revoked

Old fashioned perhaps, But!

Oldie ( Ex commissioned Officer Royal Navy )
__________________
Humour is by far the most significant activity of the human brain.
Edward De Bono NEW THINKING
LANMaster's Avatar
Community Moderator with 43,627 posts.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central USA
Experience: Need no stinking badges
30-Apr-2004, 12:02 PM #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by From one of the indicted US soldiers
"We had no support, no training whatsoever. And I kept asking my chain of command for certain things... like rules and regulation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoner
Since when did any member of our society need a written command specifically prohibiting the actions at that prison?

I suspect the imagery of US female soldiers abusing Iraqis with sexual implications is going to be very costly in this Islamic land.
This puke expected someone in command to inform him that you shouldn't hook Iraqi prisoners up to electrical wires?
I'd like to see some of the HARSHEST penalties possible, including execution, meated out in this SERIES OF CASES.

I have to sign off for a few minutes. my fingers are sore from POUNDING my keyboard in this post.

I cannot remember when I have been this angry.
__________________
I’d rather elect McCain and hope he’s telling the truth than elect Obama and hope to God he’s lying.
Better an imperfect Republican than a perfect socialist.
No Way, No How, NObama

2008 TSG Fantasy Hockey - Sign up here

Draft is Friday 10/10/08 Use league name: 85624 Password: random

It's free!
Ciberblade's Avatar
Computer Specs
Community Moderator with 15,703 posts.
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Heart of the Bluegrass Ky
Experience: Mostly Harmless
30-Apr-2004, 12:33 PM #12
LANMaster's Avatar
Community Moderator with 43,627 posts.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central USA
Experience: Need no stinking badges
30-Apr-2004, 12:40 PM #13
This is a shot of a female US soldier humiliating an Iraqi prisoner while a number of Iraqi male prisoners stand naked in front of her.

Imagine what this does to troop morale among the respectable, honest, and honorable soldiers.
Attached Thumbnails
what-have-we-become-gijane.jpg  
LANMaster's Avatar
Community Moderator with 43,627 posts.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central USA
Experience: Need no stinking badges
30-Apr-2004, 12:42 PM #14
What the heck is THIS!
Were the prison guards making them play naked twister?

S I C K !
Attached Thumbnails
what-have-we-become-mad.jpg  
oldie's Avatar
Distinguished Member with 4,996 posts.
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Middle of the Med.
Experience: Embryonic Stage
30-Apr-2004, 12:56 PM #15
DN - thanks for the link - and yes I was fully aware of that incident - but no more serious than what happens on our streets each night As for this threads implications - God only knows - we need bloody friends not enemies - this is a General who is implicated in the incident

Oldie
__________________
Humour is by far the most significant activity of the human brain.
Edward De Bono NEW THINKING
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
WELCOME TO TECH SUPPORT GUY! Are you looking for the solution to your computer problem? Join our site today to ask your question -- for free! Our site is run completely by volunteers who help people like you solve computer problems. See our Welcome Guide to get started.



Thread Tools


You Are Using:
Server ID
Advertisements do not imply our endorsement of that product or service.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:05 PM.
Copyright © 1996 - 2008 TechGuy, Inc. All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin, Copyright © 2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
Powered by Cermak Technologies, Inc.