[lighthouse]

Just a quick message to say a big WELCOME to the people of Poland, The Czech republic, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovenia,Hunagary, Malta, and Cyprus. I was in Poland a few years ago and the hospitality afforded to me and my companions was brilliant. You might not be the wealthiest country in the world, but if my time spent in your company is any measure of the decency of a people, what you bring to Western Europe is just as (maybe more) important!!!

[oldie]

Good morning to you Sir up there in Bristol Heh heh, we are in CivDeb here Check out my thread in Random http://forums.techguy.org/t225213.html

Bloody daft Brits

Regards - oldie

[lighthouse]

Ah yeah - but all these were posted before the event! Mine was a WELCOME to them all (yourself included) once it had all happened.....Also getting a point across about eatern Europeans being cool people (despite all the guff about assylum seekers in the press etc) which is why I put this in CivDeb, because I know there could be a few rather reactionary responses from one or two out there!

Thinking about it, won't all these refugees etc (eastern European ones anyway) bring their language with them - the learning of which is going to be a bit useful to British business types in the new Europe?!

Here's a binary sachet of Alka-Seltzer by the way - for that morning after the night before feeling

[oldie]

Lighthouse - are you taken aback by how little our American friends know about the EU, and it's basics Check out my thread above

Regards - Oldie

[lighthouse]

Yeah - erm - noticed how the 'S' word seems to crop up a few times. Agreed, there are a few Socialist governments in charge of several member states, but to generalise that the EU is a Socialist organisation seems a bit off beam really. (But then, there are probably quite a few things we Europeans don't totally understand about America). As far as the 'S' word is concerned - if a continent collectively manages to avoid the huge inequalities inherrent between rich and poor that you find on the other side of the Atlantic then I'd rather be a 'Socialist' European any day! Oh yeah - and let's differentiate between Socialist democracy and Socialist totalitarianism - the latter being what 8 of the above are still in the process of recovering from. Now - if they want it they can vote for it! A lot of people over here are aware of the anti-french sentiment in the US at the moment because of France's stance on the Iraq war, boycotting certain goods etc, so perhaps that might be influencing some of the opinions being put forward by our American friends recently.

Just hope that the enlarged Europe manages to focus on important stuff - rather than use up valuable discussion time on the shape of Bananas!!!

[lighthouse]

PS: Looking forward to their Rock and Pop music reaching a wider audience! Frank Black might have sung about "Freedom Rock" but to these guys the whole idea about being able to Rock at all was an expression of freedom in societies where you felt anything but free. Just hope they manage to avoid some of the cynicism our scene has picked up over the years. They might have been learning from us for years - but now perhaps there are a few things we could learn from them long forgotten in the west.

[oldie]

Hi Lighthouse. Re the "S" word - leaves me speechless. We (Europeans) elect our MEPs. End of discussion Apart from the fact the European Parliament consists of 14 different Political parties, including a high number of Greens . USA = TWO

Oldie

[GoneForNow]

oldie.....I've invited you to educate us dumb Americans on the EU but so far no dice. Maybe you should start with the three pillars underlying the concept of the EU. Could you also expand on the Rome Treaties entered into by the first six members of the EU. Of more recent vintage is the Maastricht Treaty and the Treaty of Nice, a discussion of them would also be appropriate don't you think?

if a continent collectively manages to avoid the huge inequalities inherrent between rich and poor that you find on the other side of the Atlantic then I'd rather be a 'Socialist' European any day!

Speaking of being misinformed but it doesn't matter. Please explain how the EU is going to accomplish this lessening of disparity between rich and poor? Last time I look your (meaning the EU) had an unemployment rate that is rather unsettling.

[plschwartz]

gbrumb:
You are just to modest. I'm fully prepared to believe that you are a naive hick

Actually you are not a typical american. From what you have said you are at home abroad.
While I am not claiming that the average frenchman knows much about the US In this country once you get a little away from either coast I do think knowledge of other countries diminishes. And of course our language ability just is the pits.
__________________

[Chris A]

Is this a French thread??




Just kidding... I wish the EU well. If the bar is raised for the people then it gives us all something to reach for. I could hardly think that a problematic EU could benefit anyone.

[lighthouse]

Is there such thing as a minimum wage in the US?

[oldie]

Lordy Lordy oh Geez GB asking we Europeans to delve into the various EU treaties LOL Watching slow drying paint dry would be much more enthralling

Some years ago I began to write a thesis on the Rome treaty for a PhD. After only a year I packed it in due to my wifes illness. However, the absolute nitty gritty of this, the first treaty, was drawn up by the very same academics who were responsible for hanging Mussolini in public. Mussolini being of course Hitlers mentor. Mussolini being the founder of Fascism Mussolini being the son of a violent and mentally disturbed father Sound familiar ??? sons of an infamous Iraqi dictator

In short, the Rome treaty was the brain child of "Academics" and not "Politicians". A united Europe for the first time in it's history. A far off dream that is now becoming reality. No more wars in Europe.

Potugal - Italy - Spain - Britain - Greece - (Turkey) - Scandinavian bloc - France - Germany - all at one time in their history had empires. Never again.

Regards - Oldie

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by oldie

Lordy Lordy oh GeezA united Europe for the first time in it's history. A far off dream that is now becoming reality. No more wars in Europe.

Potugal - Italy - Spain - Britain - Greece - (Turkey) - Scandinavian bloc - France - Germany - all at one time in their history had empires. Never again.

Regards - Oldie

While I hope you're correct, I have my doubts. Treaties are just voluntary agreements between nations that choose to act civilly with each other or to subvert their national interest on, at least, a temporary basis. The wrong leader in tough economic times or any other situation that causes an unnatural pressure on a EU country could cause the voluntary status of membership to collapse. The issue is, are you (meaning the EU) willing to, if necessary, to go to war to stop a member nation from breaking away.

[lighthouse]

Greens? Yeah - it'd be interesting to know what Americans thought when their Pres threw out the Kyoto agreement. The extra money being in the EU will bring to some of the new arrivals will mean more resources to tackle the pollution that caused all that acid rain (which should please the Scandinavians as they took the worst of it). How do you think the Green lobby will co-habit with those of the 10 who might well see economic growth rather than ecological awareness as the most important priority in the immediate future? Jonathan Porritt (Friends of the Earth - UK) pointed out recently that growth in the economy and environmental concerns are incompatable as one puts strain on the other - natural resources having to provide for the extra demand. So is this a bit of a fait accompli for countries who need the economic growth to provide the money to pay for more environmentally friendly industrial and energy production - but in doing so they do concurrent harm to their own ecology systems? Can we in the Western European countries justifiably tell our new Euro partners that they should bias towards a Green agenda as opposed to a purely business centred one - thus denying them an affluent lifestyle we have known for years - or would that be a bit patronising? I personally believe that we have been able to afford the environmental measures we have taken so far (meagre though some might seem) because of our economic strength - but a lot of that was based on centuries of accumen. Perhaps this reinforces the arguement that we should provide as much assistance to the new signaturies as possible!

[oldie]

GB - As there is no EU Constitution as yet, then any member state can leave the EU any time it so chooses. The result however would be a total collapse of that countries economy. I don't think such a clause (inability to depart the fold) could even be written into any EU constitution, unless the EU became a "Federation of States" - which is very unlikely

Lighthouse - Kyoto shame on our USA friends eh? big business rules the roost as always

The European Parliament consists of 732 members (as of June 2004). It is estimated that over one third of these members will have had no political experience, many being professionals in education, medicine and the like. Now that I certainly give a big too

Regards - Oldie