[BLUE66]

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Note-this post and posts through No. 18 were split out from the Pat Tillman Thread in Random to start a new thread here
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Pat Tillman was a hero and an inspiration

It's so devasting that he is gone and we are left with the likes of Michael Moore who, because of those willing to serve and protect , can make the following statements

"April 25, 2004 -- DERANGED documentarian Michael Moore likens the cowards who murder U.S soldiers in Iraq to the colonists who fought in the American Revolution. "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' or 'The Enemy,' " he writes on his Web site. "They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win. Get it, Mr. [George W.] Bush?" The flabby filmmaker goes on to say that the UN should stay out of Iraq because Americans who supported the war deserve to see their sons and daughters die in it. "Why should the other countries of this world, countries who tried to talk us out of this folly, now have to clean up our mess? . . . I'm sorry, but the majority of Americans supported this war once it began and, sadly, that majority must now sac rifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe - just maybe - God and the Iraqi people will forgive us in the end." NY Post

God save us.

[Doc Holliday]

Michael Moore is a brainless twit who doesn't deserve the notoriety! *In fact political issues and people in the limelight really don't mix at all regardless of their stand* Enough said......

In case anyone is interested, there is a 4+ mb download from a local radio station paying tribute to Mr. Tillman. It's done quite well.

http://www.koolradio.com/

[slickoe]

Moore's words were tactless but the ideas behind them were right on target. Remember folks, in this war, we attacked Iraq, Iraq didn't attack us. It is not American buildings and civilians being destroyed by munitions, it is Iraqi buildings ands civilians. They not only have the right to resist the US GI's attacking them; they have the duty. If the situation were reversed and the Iraqis were here attacking us and the previous two posters were not participating in the "insurgency" I would castrate them as the nutless cowards they would deservedly be. And for the record I am a veteran of the previous mideast war.

[BLUE66]

Originally Posted by slickoe

Moore's words were tactless but the ideas behind them were right on target. Remember folks, in this war, we attacked Iraq, Iraq didn't attack us. It is not American buildings and civilians being destroyed by munitions, it is Iraqi buildings ands civilians. They not only have the right to resist the US GI's attacking them; they have the duty. If the situation were reversed and the Iraqis were here attacking us and the previous two posters were not participating in the "insurgency" I would castrate them as the nutless cowards they would deservedly be. And for the record I am a veteran of the previous mideast war.

Are you Slickoe or Sickoe ?- I don't appreciate the threat of castration

- though I am nutless and very happy to be so.

- and by the way, thank you for serving our country, I do appreciate all our veterans.

[slickoe]

That was not a threat as we are NOT facing attacks on our soil by Iraqi divisions. If we were, and you weren't defending the USA but were collaborating castration by your countrymen would be getting off easy, I suspect. But since you were offended by it, would you fight back like the "insurgents" are doing or would you collaborate like Frenchman as everyone somehow expects them to do?

[Infidel_Kastro]

Originally Posted by slickoe

That was not a threat as we are NOT facing attacks on our soil by Iraqi divisions. If we were, and you weren't defending the USA but were collaborating castration by your countrymen would be getting off easy, I suspect. But since you were offended by it, would you fight back like the "insurgents" are doing or would you collaborate like Frenchman as everyone somehow expects them to do?

I understand what your saying, but I ask you this. If these people are fighting this "occupation" then are they revolutionaries? And if so, why did they wait to have thier revolution after we removed Saddam? If they had done that previously, then we wouldn't have had to roll into Baghdad?
We are not attacking, we are returing fire. More Iraqi's have been killed by their own then we have. They have a country of insurgents and minority muslims are are ina POWER STRUGGLE. This has nothing to do with revolution, this has everything to do with people losing influence and power over a group, which means they will lose everything, that is why they are fighting. they will say it is because of Islam, but its not.
Remeber, it is a fact that Saddam fostered an environment of terrorism, both covertly and overtly. We have the responsibility to our selves and opurselves only to take a proactive stance because we were attacked, and only because we were attacked. unlike other countries, they cannot take a proactive stance against us because we have not attacked them, instead we told them to change thier politics and views. If this is such an unjust war, like that wuss Michael Moore says, why aren't other countries rising to the aid and defense of Iraq? because they didn't like him either, he was destabilizing the region.

[BLUE66]

Originally Posted by slickoe

That was not a threat as we are NOT facing attacks on our soil by Iraqi divisions. If we were, and you weren't defending the USA but were collaborating castration by your countrymen would be getting off easy, I suspect. But since you were offended by it, would you fight back like the "insurgents" are doing or would you collaborate like Frenchman as everyone somehow expects them to do?

If I had lived all my life under a murderous dictator and was finally saved by a civilized nation that wished to install a safe and secure government and then leave, I would rejoice.

If civilians from that nation risked venturing into my still unsecured country to bring me food and electricity, I don't think I would murder them, mutilate their bodies and hang them up as decorations.

If the United States was actually invaded by these murderous barbarians, then I would gladly give my life to protect my country.

It used to by "Better Dead than Red" ..I can't think of an updated slogan, but have no wish to collaborate - as if they would give us a choice ... and I am now really offended in being compared to a Frenchman.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by slickoe

Moore's words were tactless but the ideas behind them were right on target. Remember folks, in this war, we attacked Iraq, Iraq didn't attack us. It is not American buildings and civilians being destroyed by munitions, it is Iraqi buildings ands civilians. They not only have the right to resist the US GI's attacking them; they have the duty. If the situation were reversed and the Iraqis were here attacking us and the previous two posters were not participating in the "insurgency" I would castrate them as the nutless cowards they would deservedly be. And for the record I am a veteran of the previous mideast war.

What? Your perspective seems to be as warped as Moores is. Without getting into the right or wrong of the war, just about everyone, including the vast majority of Iraqis believed Hussein should have been removed from office. People can have honest debates over whether we had the right to do it or not, but yours and Moores perspective, i.e., that we invaded the people of Iraq and the few zealots figthing back should be considred akin to American revolutionaries is absurd. I don't think you'll find one other person on this board, even those that oppossed the war that would agree with your analogy.

They not only have the right to resist the US GI's attacking them; they have the duty

Who are you talking about here? Saddam's goons or the people of Iraq in general? Because most of the people in Iraq are glad to have Hussein out of power and the vast majority do not want the US to leave.

Anyway, we have a civ debate section, so continue your arguments over there. This thread is suppossed to be about honoring a hero and Michael Moore should not even be considered in the same breath with Pat Tillman. Moore is the antithesis of an American hero. And this is not the place to debate the merits of the Iraq war.

[slickoe]

I have waited for this moment. I have lurked here for some time but was always hesitant to jump in as it kind of seemed like a private club, and I finally get to square off with Mulder, the conservative house intelluctual. Your posts often make a lot of sense, just as often they are smug, self-important, devoid of logic, and you deflect the issues raised and merely toss out terms like far-left, bush-basher, leftie, and the like. Sure, everyone knows Saddam was a brutal dictator. So what? So was the Shah. So was Pinochet. So was Suharto (there are half a million East Timorese in HIS mass graves). We not only did not depose them, we actively supported them, among other various nasty characters, when it suited our interests at the time. So spare me the "brutal dictator" argument. As for deposing Saddam, that was a job for Iraqis. Revolutions HAVE been known to occur from within, without US intervention, from time to time in world history, believe it or not. Iraq is not a western culture, and anyone who thinks a western style democracy is going to takee root there any time soon, at gunpoint ot not, is deluding himself. They are too backwards a culture yet, they have not experienced what we have in the West, the Magna Carta, the renaissance, the reformation, they have no tradition of respect for the individual and individual rights and freedoms; it simply does not exist in the muslim mindset. And don't give me Egypt as an example. Egypt is NOT a democracy. 3 presidents in 40+ years-Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak, all elected military dicatators, basically. Yes we are bringing food and aid in and don't really deserve to be shot at and opportunistic clerics are taking advantage of the chaos to become political warlords. But that is their way. They have electricity and universities over there but THEY ARE NOT LIKE US.

[Infidel_Kastro]

Originally Posted by slickoe

I have waited for this moment. I have lurked here for some time but was always hesitant to jump in as it kind of seemed like a private club, and I finally get to square off with Mulder, the conservative house intelluctual. Your posts often make a lot of sense, just as often they are smug, self-important, devoid of logic, and you deflect the issues raised and merely toss out terms like far-left, bush-basher, leftie, and the like. Sure, everyone knows Saddam was a brutal dictator. So what? So was the Shah. So was Pinochet. So was Suharto (there are half a million East Timorese in HIS mass graves). We not only did not depose them, we actively supported them, among other various nasty characters, when it suited our interests at the time. So spare me the "brutal dictator" argument. As for deposing Saddam, that was a job for Iraqis. Revolutions HAVE been known to occur from within, without US intervention, from time to time in world history, believe it or not. Iraq is not a western culture, and anyone who thinks a western style democracy is going to takee root there any time soon, at gunpoint ot not, is deluding himself. They are too backwards a culture yet, they have not experienced what we have in the West, the Magna Carta, the renaissance, the reformation, they have no tradition of respect for the individual and individual rights and freedoms; it simply does not exist in the muslim mindset. And don't give me Egypt as an example. Egypt is NOT a democracy. 3 presidents in 40+ years-Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak, all elected military dicatators, basically. Yes we are bringing food and aid in and don't really deserve to be shot at and opportunistic clerics are taking advantage of the chaos to become political warlords. But that is their way. They have electricity and universities over there but THEY ARE NOT LIKE US.

I am glad you respect Mulder, he's a nice guy, with many good points, whether he's smug or not. its part of his charm. However if you want to play with the big boys, why don't you come over to civ debate where we hold nothing back. Lets see how quickly the evil minions that lurk there view your writings.

[slickoe]

I am already drawing fire over there. It's refreshing arguing with people who are informed for a change.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by infidel_kast

IHowever if you want to play with the big boys, why don't you come over to civ debate where we hold nothing back.

Yes--good idea. Go debate the Iraq war in CivDeb.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by slickoe

devoid of logic

Explains just about every liberal argument I've ever read!

[Servant of Eru]

We should be attacking Saudi Arabia, that's where most of the money backing the terrorists was coming from....not Iraq. Do you think that Saddam had the money to have solid gold toletrie items, and send all that money to back the terrorist?!! Pfft! The only reason we aren't attacking the Saudis, is because Big Bush is more concerned with Crude than Justice.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Servant of Eru

The only reason we aren't attacking the Saudis, is because Big Bush is more concerned with Crude than Justice.

So let me get this straight. Bush goes into Iraq to get all the oil right? So now I'm now paying $2.50 a gallon for gas and pissed off about it like most other Americans. So can you explain to me again how we benefited from all the Iraqi oil? Talk about your arguments devoid of logic!