[oldie]

Vatican warning against such marriages taking place

REUTERS

Personally I feel the Vatican are out of order here

Ciao ciao - Oldie

[bhav]

Originally Posted by oldie

Vatican warning against such marriages taking place

REUTERS

Personally I feel the Vatican are out of order here

Ciao ciao - Oldie

well, i think it worked out alright for Sonia Gandhi(see my post if u haven't yet!) who is from a Conservative Catholic family from Italy. she did marry a non catholic, not a muslim though!

being the PM of the largest democracy in the world is a pretty good trade off i guess just one problem she's gotta watchout for assassination attempts that took the life of his mother in law, brother in law(officially it was an accident) and husband. Doh!

[bhav]

seriously on the topic though, i have a similar policy for marrying any body south of Jupiter. no specific problems other than that they are real cold and in a smelly gaseous state! chicks from venus are hot though!

[valley]

Originally Posted by oldie

Vatican warning against such marriages taking place

REUTERS

Personally I feel the Vatican are out of order here

Ciao ciao - Oldie

I am sorry but I agree with their warnings.

I cant imagine why anyone would want to marry outside of their faith if they are serious about their relationship with God. Think about it...I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and without Him, I would be condemned to hell. To have a Muslim husband telling me that Jesus was nothing more than a prophet and NOT deity, would be a HUGE wedge in our relationship from the get-go, since I place Christ as a higher authority over me than my own husband. I submit to Christ first and my husband second. If my husband asks me to disobey the Lord for him (like lying for him or something like that) then thats just too bad.

How can any Christian possibly marry a man that refuses to recognize the deity of Christ? There are just too many obstacles to overcome, imo.

The warnings are fair, imo. I dont think women are fully aware of what they are getting themselves into when they marry Muslim men, who have had thousands of years of culture telling them that their women are little more than property.

[bhav]

Originally Posted by valley

The warnings are fair, imo. I dont think women are fully aware of what they are getting themselves into when they marry Muslim men, who have had thousands of years of culture telling them that their women are little more than property.

valley, that is certainly not limited to muslim men, it includes hindus and the rest of em!

not exactly sure if it is a lot different in the west, i have only seen it second hand so i'd rather not make a statement about it!

[plschwartz]

VAL
I am quite suprised at your last post. Ihave not noticed you before build yourself up by stepping over others?
So say you have as I have , met Muslim women who feel very much comforted and fulfilled by their religion.
Would you consider them masochistic ditzy fools?
Did christianity always have your attitude toward women, even the S. Baptist conference (which I know you don't belong to).
I fear that now not only have you found the most perfect religion christianity and you and your few co-religionists have found the acme of christian understanding but now through it it seems you have found the most perfect of spousal relationships.
I guess each of us finds in Christ that which we need to find.

[brushmaster1]

I believe marriage should be an agreement between the parties involved. It is not the Vatican's business to tell anyone who to marry.

[valley]

Originally Posted by plschwartz

VAL
I am quite suprised at your last post.

really? well! I am surprised that I still surprise you after all of the bickering we have done during our time here.

Does it surprise you that I am surprised at you being surprised with me? Is anyone else surprised at this latest development between Paul and I? hehehe, ok...I'm sorry. Gotta harass you just a litte bit for old times sake.

I have not noticed you before build yourself up by stepping over others?

I am sorry if it appears that way. If you think what I said amounts to stepping on other women then thats ok. I tried to explain myself without launching into an overly long post explaining every nuance of why I believe the way I do. If what I said confuses you then ask me to clarify it and I will be glad to. But please do not pull these kinds of assumptions out of nowhere and expect me to rush to convince you that I dont believe what you say I do.

So say you have as I have , met Muslim women who feel very much comforted and fulfilled by their religion.

If they are content not to be able to own their own business..if they are content to be refused hospital treatment without the consent of their husbands, if they are content to be refused travel without a male chaperone then that is their prerogative to do so. If living with no rights is a comfort then they are welcomed to that feeling. Still....what does this have to do with a women from a completely different culture marrying into a culture with such strict laws? You honestly cannot see the possible problems that can arise? No one has said they could not marry...they have said they should not. A big difference, imo.

Would you consider them masochistic ditzy fools?

of course not. Thats why I did not call them names.

but now through it it seems you have found the most perfect of spousal relationships.

Then would you please run that one by my husband?

[valley]

Originally Posted by brushmaster1

It is not the Vatican's business to tell anyone who to marry.

They havent. This is what they have said:

The Vatican warned Catholic women on Friday to think hard before marrying a Muslim and urged Muslims to show more respect for human rights, gender equality and democracy.

I hardly consider this telling someone what to do.

[bhav]

maybe its just me but i think the 'think hard' part gives it away

[plschwartz]

VAL
If you ran away with me I would become an orthodox jew (or manybe a muslim)and we could experiment with all those problems





Exeunt all but PAUL
I will attend her here,
And woo her with some spirit when she comes.
Say that she rail; why then I'll tell her plain
She sings as sweetly as a nightingale:
Say that she frown, I'll say she looks as clear
As morning roses newly wash'd with dew:
Say she be mute and will not speak a word;
Then I'll commend her volubility,
And say she uttereth piercing eloquence:
If she do bid me pack, I'll give her thanks,
As though she bid me stay by her a week:
If she deny to wed, I'll crave the day
When I shall ask the banns and when be married.
But here she comes; and now, Paul, speak.

Enter Valerie
Good morrow, Val; for that's your name, I hear.

Valerie

Well have you heard, but something hard of hearing:
They call me Valerie that do talk of me.
VAL

You lie, in faith; for you are call'd plain Val,
And bonny Val and sometimes Val the curst;
But Val, the prettiest Val in Christendom
Val of Val Hall, my super-dainty Val,
For dainties are all Vals, and therefore, Val,
Take this of me, Val of my consolation;
Hearing thy mildness praised in every town,
Thy virtues spoke of, and thy beauty sounded,
Yet not so deeply as to thee belongs,
Myself am moved to woo thee for my wife.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Later:

Fie, fie! unknit that threatening unkind brow,
And dart not scornful glances from those eyes,
To wound thy lord, thy king, thy governor:
It blots thy beauty as frosts do bite the meads,
Confounds thy fame as whirlwinds shake fair buds,
And in no sense is meet or amiable.
A woman moved is like a fountain troubled,
Muddy, ill-seeming, thick, bereft of beauty;
And while it is so, none so dry or thirsty
Will deign to sip or touch one drop of it.
Thy husband is thy lord, thy life, thy keeper,
Thy head, thy sovereign; one that cares for thee,
And for thy maintenance commits his body
To painful labour both by sea and land,
To watch the night in storms, the day in cold,
Whilst thou liest warm at home, secure and safe;
And craves no other tribute at thy hands
But love, fair looks and true obedience;
Too little payment for so great a debt.
Such duty as the subject owes the prince
Even such a woman oweth to her husband;
And when she is froward, peevish, sullen, sour,
And not obedient to his honest will,
What is she but a foul contending rebel
And graceless traitor to her loving lord?
I am ashamed that women are so simple
To offer war where they should kneel for peace;
Or seek for rule, supremacy and sway,
When they are bound to serve, love and obey.
Why are our bodies soft and weak and smooth,
Unapt to toil and trouble in the world,
But that our soft conditions and our hearts
Should well agree with our external parts?
Come, come, you froward and unable worms!
My mind hath been as big as one of yours,
My heart as great, my reason haply more,
To bandy word for word and frown for frown;
But now I see our lances are but straws,
Our strength as weak, our weakness past compare,
That seeming to be most which we indeed least are.
Then vail your stomachs, for it is no boot,
And place your hands below your husband's foot:
In token of which duty, if he please,
My hand is ready; may it do him ease.

[valley]

LOL, Paul! Now that is funny! (referring to the first line of your post)

A Jewish man or a Muslim man....hmmm.....ok, I dont think I could be with a man who had a legal right to beat me if I step out of line. And trust me, you'd wanna beat me so i'd be safer with you as a Jewish man, I think!

[plschwartz]

Val see edited version

[valley]

Originally Posted by plschwartz

Val see edited version

what a fickle love displayed in the narrative, eh?

In all seriousness. I appreciate the story. I agree with the "later" part. It cuts to the quick of plenty of modern relationships, dont you think? Nothing new in this tale. It is an age-old struggle going back to the garden. As a direct result of the fall, there has been a power struggle between the sexes. Women desire to control men using whatever means they can. Likewise, men desire to rule over women with an iron fist.

so forget about having you as a Jew or Muslim. Apparently, I'd be better off with a woman

[Wino]

Last time the Pope said anything that affected my life was - never! Being agnostic/atheist allows me to marry any race or religion without repercussions (other than child support, alimony, left over bills, etc. after the divorce). Have been married to an agnostic (the devil incarnate), savage Inglesia de Christo, alcoholic - found them all to be from the same mold and intolerant of an absent husband. Heavily involved with Catholic, Seventh Day Adventist, JAP (as in Jewish American Princess) & several Protestants - religion didn't shape them - their gender did. I believe love can conquer all - even religion! So what a Pope, Ayatollah, Preacher, etc. have to say about relationships is water off a ducks butt!