[LANMaster]

Kerry's Cambodia Stories: A Question of Character

by Patrick J. Buchanan
Posted Aug 16, 2004

On March 27, 1986, John Kerry rose in the Senate to address the theme that launched his career: how U.S. leaders had lied about Vietnam while young warriors like John Kerry paid the price. His textbook case was how Nixon had lied about U.S. forces not being in Cambodia:

"I remember Christmas of 1968, sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and the Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and the president of the United States telling the American people I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me." Kerry had told this dramatic story before, in the Boston Herald, Oct. 14, 1979, with a different twist as to who had fired on the young Navy lieutenant on that unforgettable Christmas Eve.

"On more than one occasion, I, like Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now, took my patrol boat into Cambodia. In fact, I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."

Just how "very real," how "seared" in Kerry's memory that raid into Cambodia was -- with Nixon lying about our not being there as Lt. John Kerry took fire -- is now open to question.

First, because Richard Nixon was not president on Christmas Eve, 1968. Lyndon Johnson was. More critically, because Kerry's fellow Swift Boat commanders are openly accusing him of lying.

John Kerry "was never ordered into Cambodia by anyone and would have been court-martialed had he gone there," writes former swift boat captain John O'Neill in the explosive new best-seller Unfit for Command. On that Christmas Eve, writes O'Neill, Kerry was "more than 50 miles away from Cambodia."

"During Christmas 1968," writes O'Neill, "Kerry was stationed at Coastal Division 13 in Cat Lo. Coastal Division 13's patrol area extended to Sa Dec, about 55 miles from the Cambodian border. Areas closer than 55 miles to the Cambodian border in the area of the Mekong River were patrolled by PBRs, a small river patrol craft, and not by swift boats."

"Preventing border crossings," writes O'Neill, "was considered so important at that time that an LCU (a large, mechanized landing craft) and several PBRs were stationed to ensure that no one could cross the border. A large sign at the border prohibited entry."

According to O'Neill, all of Kerry's commanders who are still alive deny he was ever ordered into Cambodia and insist Kerry would have been court-martialed had he ever taken his boat into Cambodia.

If what John O'Neill writes is true -- and he has invited Kerry to sue him for libel -- Kerry has falsified a central event of his life. For Kerry has used this story repeatedly, and it has been used by admirers to explain how the idealistic young warrior lost his faith in the U.S. government.

Nor is this an unserious matter. For the charges against Kerry in "Unfit for Command" go to an issue the media failed to address in 1992, to the detriment of this country: the issue of character and credibility.

Is John Kerry a brave warrior being viciously maligned by swift boat veterans who hate him for having turned against the war and telling the truth about U.S. war crimes? Or has John Kerry been lying about his service in Vietnam and slandering the honorable service of the swift boat veterans to advance his own career -- in which case, he should be read out of the company of decent men, not elevated to the presidency?

While the full truth about how Kerry won his medals may never be known, we do know this: Kerry has backed away from the more lurid charges of genocide against U.S. forces he made when he came home. He misled his biographer Douglas Brinkley when he denied being at the Kansas City meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, where the assassination of Senators Tower, Stennis and Thurmond was discussed. His campaign staff tried to get former VVAW men to disremember that Kerry was there.

Now we have the issue of whether Kerry has told the truth about a critical moment in his life, that Christmas Eve of 1968, inside Cambodia, where young John Kerry was taking fire as U.S. leaders were lying to the nation by denying we were in Cambodia.

There is a simple way to discover who is telling the truth. That is for a journalist to ask Kerry to elaborate a bit on that Christmas Eve in Cambodia that is so "seared" in his memory and so affected his life.

Link

Sheeeesh! Can't Kerry come clean on ANYTHING?

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Sheeeesh! Can't Kerry come clean on ANYTHING?

Same thing that did Clinton in--he just couldn't come clean!

[DNeurococo]

I would prefer that this election be discussed and decided upon the respective postitions the candidates take on the ISSUES...

...rather than some event that happened several decades ago, or questioning whether Bush was really serving in the Alabama guard.

Let's talk about their plan for Iraq, for the Economy, their positions on Korea, and the Middle East, etc.

[sligo]

This is a fairly common tactict of the right wing goons---If they had to run on Issues Bush would be back in shrub cashing his trust kids coupons. NOw that you brought it up--lets hear about those heroic days that the draft dodger spent in Alabama.

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by sligo

This is a fairly common tactict of the right wing goons---

What, a desire to have the election to the most powerful office in the country decided on by the issues. You make it sound like a bad thing.

[sligo]

CB--warrior---What did you do during the war??? LOL

[Ciberblade]

sligo ~ define warrior, and which war? And you still haven't answered my question, why should this (or any) election be about something other than the issues?

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by Mulder

Same thing that did Clinton in--he just couldn't come clean!

When is Bush going to come clean about lying about the WMDs?

[plschwartz]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Kerry's Cambodia Stories: A Question of Character

by Patrick J. Buchanan
Posted Aug 16, 2004

On March 27, 1986, John Kerry rose in the Senate to address the theme that launched his career: how U.S. leaders had lied about Vietnam while young warriors like John Kerry paid the price. His textbook case was how Nixon had lied about U.S. forces not being in Cambodia:

"I remember Christmas of 1968, sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and the Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and the president of the United States telling the American people I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me." Kerry had told this dramatic story before, in the Boston Herald, Oct. 14, 1979, with a different twist as to who had fired on the young Navy lieutenant on that unforgettable Christmas Eve.

"On more than one occasion, I, like Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now, took my patrol boat into Cambodia. In fact, I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real."

Just how "very real," how "seared" in Kerry's memory that raid into Cambodia was -- with Nixon lying about our not being there as Lt. John Kerry took fire -- is now open to question.

First, because Richard Nixon was not president on Christmas Eve, 1968. Lyndon Johnson was. More critically, because Kerry's fellow Swift Boat commanders are openly accusing him of lying.

John Kerry "was never ordered into Cambodia by anyone and would have been court-martialed had he gone there," writes former swift boat captain John O'Neill in the explosive new best-seller Unfit for Command. On that Christmas Eve, writes O'Neill, Kerry was "more than 50 miles away from Cambodia."

"During Christmas 1968," writes O'Neill, "Kerry was stationed at Coastal Division 13 in Cat Lo. Coastal Division 13's patrol area extended to Sa Dec, about 55 miles from the Cambodian border. Areas closer than 55 miles to the Cambodian border in the area of the Mekong River were patrolled by PBRs, a small river patrol craft, and not by swift boats."

"Preventing border crossings," writes O'Neill, "was considered so important at that time that an LCU (a large, mechanized landing craft) and several PBRs were stationed to ensure that no one could cross the border. A large sign at the border prohibited entry."

According to O'Neill, all of Kerry's commanders who are still alive deny he was ever ordered into Cambodia and insist Kerry would have been court-martialed had he ever taken his boat into Cambodia.

If what John O'Neill writes is true -- and he has invited Kerry to sue him for libel -- Kerry has falsified a central event of his life. For Kerry has used this story repeatedly, and it has been used by admirers to explain how the idealistic young warrior lost his faith in the U.S. government.

Nor is this an unserious matter. For the charges against Kerry in "Unfit for Command" go to an issue the media failed to address in 1992, to the detriment of this country: the issue of character and credibility.

Is John Kerry a brave warrior being viciously maligned by swift boat veterans who hate him for having turned against the war and telling the truth about U.S. war crimes? Or has John Kerry been lying about his service in Vietnam and slandering the honorable service of the swift boat veterans to advance his own career -- in which case, he should be read out of the company of decent men, not elevated to the presidency?

While the full truth about how Kerry won his medals may never be known, we do know this: Kerry has backed away from the more lurid charges of genocide against U.S. forces he made when he came home. He misled his biographer Douglas Brinkley when he denied being at the Kansas City meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, where the assassination of Senators Tower, Stennis and Thurmond was discussed. His campaign staff tried to get former VVAW men to disremember that Kerry was there.

Now we have the issue of whether Kerry has told the truth about a critical moment in his life, that Christmas Eve of 1968, inside Cambodia, where young John Kerry was taking fire as U.S. leaders were lying to the nation by denying we were in Cambodia.

There is a simple way to discover who is telling the truth. That is for a journalist to ask Kerry to elaborate a bit on that Christmas Eve in Cambodia that is so "seared" in his memory and so affected his life.

Link

Sheeeesh! Can't Kerry come clean on ANYTHING?

LAN
In fact I have posted a piece by the his biographer which suggests if these things actually happened in I believe late Jan or Feb 1969 things make more sense. So either in the middle of a speech in the senate if he confuses or folds two stories into each other then he is human I do not know of such things but I knew a guy whowas in MI in Saigon. I last talked to him about this about six years ago and even then he said he had no permisiion to talk of it. So maybe thats why Kerrys story is under wraps or disguised. I don't know that this is true but tis a possibility. And of Course Kerry could have been asked to take part in these missions without ONeills permission. Do you know anything about ONeil and his war record? We do know he was seen with favor by Coleson who had errr some problems himself.
I have learned when I am too willing to jump to a conclusion I probably am wrong. As an old supervisor told me When you feel you absolutely have to say something to a patient never say it. It comes from you not him

BTW Again I do not know if it was routine in his position to get this but Kerry did get Top Secret clearance. (http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/j...pscrtslrnc.pdf )
The concrete posts and sign notwithstanding US personnel were going into Cambodia in 1968. Maybe they just used a different waterway

BBTW I ran across this link http://www.mwweb.com/ndc/SwiftBoats/Swifthome2.htm
with a photo with this caption "Picture of PCF 38 wasting village in Cai Nap Canal. Mar 6, 1969. EN3 Barry Bogart was Wounded In Action in this raid. PCF 94 was also on this raid."

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by bassetman

When is Bush going to come clean about lying about the WMDs?

here we go....again.
When is Bush sr. going to come clean about lying about the WMDs?
When is Clinton going to come clean about lying about the WMDs?
When is G W Bush going to come clean about lying about the WMDs?
When is Tom Daschle going to come clean about lying about the WMDs?
When is Madeline Albright going to come clean about lying about the WMDs?
When is Al Gore going to come clean about lying about the WMDs?
When is John Kerry going to come clean about lying about the WMDs?
Should I go on?

[plschwartz]

LAN
Again my georgrahy is bad but Oneill isn't gospel:
Ha Tien
Entrance to the Giang Thanh River
Gulf of Siam East of An Thoi


http://www.pcf45.com/sealords/hatien/hatien.html

Ha Tien was perhaps the first forward location to be utilized as a base for supporting Swift Boat operations aimed at interdiction in the South Vietnam rivers close to the Cambodian border. It was, however, originally set up as a very temporary stopping point for crew rest by Swifts on Operation Market Time patrols in the Gulf of Siam away from the primary base at An Thoi.

On October 14 1968, shortly after Admiral Zumwalt conceived of SEALORDS, Swift Boat OinC Mike Bernique was informed by local Vietnamese at Ha Tien that the VC had set up a tax collection site a few miles up the Giang Thanh River from Ha Tien.

Even though it was strictly forbidden by the Rules of Engagement for Swift Boats to operate that far up the rivers, Mike proceeded to follow up on this lead and investigated. He discovered the tax collection site and a fire fight ensued. This resulted in five enemy KIA's and the collection of weapons, ammunition, supplies and documents left behind by the fleeing communists.

Mike was called to Saigon to explain his unauthorized conduct and to answer a diplomatic protest by Cambodian Prince Sihanouk that he had fired across the border into that supposed neutral country. Facing possible disiplinary actions, he answered Admiral Zumwalt's questions with an emphatic "Tell Sihanouk he's a lying SOB."


The Admiral declared that Bernique was exactly the kind of aggressive skipper he was looking for and awarded him a Silver Star instead of a general court marshal.

From that point forward, the Giang Thanh became known as "Bernique's Creek"

Eventually, patrols were augmented throughout the length of the Giang Thanh River and extended from its northeastern head along the Vinh Te Canal to the east all the way to the western bank of the Bassac river. Interdiction operations included not only Swift Boats, but also PBRs (Patrol Boat River) and units of the Navy's Mobile Riverine Force.

[Wet Chicken]

When it comes to fighting in the war, Kerry defended his comrades and left no man behind... where as bush just left

[LANMaster]

Perhaps O'Neil's memories are better "seared" than Kerry's?

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by sligo

CB--warrior---What did you do during the war??? LOL

I don't know why it all comes down to that every time with you, Sligo.
And it crosses into every thread these days.

Why not just wear all your combat accomplishments in your signature like EdGreene does. It may save you some typing time.

BTW, are you the war criminal that John Kerry testified to Congress that you are?
Just curious if you see it the same way he does.

[sligo]

When is Bush going to come clean about how he used his family to pull strings to get into the National Guard?