[plschwartz]

http://slate.msn.com/id/2105245/ in part
Update: Here's a study that--if I read it right-- tries to correct for variables like negligence, age of driver, speeding, etc. It concludes that pickup trucks, not SUVs, are the problem. SUVs do kill more third parties (e.g. other drivers, pedestrians) but they save the lives of those in the SUVs, and the second factor outweighs the first by over a thousand lives a year. (See page 26 of the Adobe Acrobat version of the full study.) This is completely in accord with the hoary consumer folk wisdom ('I won't die, the other guy will') that Gladwell sets out to debunk. [Thanks to alert reader J.H.] P.S.: But note that it's a little unfair to correct for speeding, since (as the study's author notes) SUVs may give drivers the false impression that they aren't speeding when they are. ... Further study: The paper behind this abstract seems to come to a different conclusion


Interesting links in this story.
One paper states that SUVs are safer for those that are in them but for every SUV occupant saved they kill an extra 2 1/2 people

The ideal vehicle for narcissistic capitalists

[combsdon]

Originally Posted by plschwartz

It concludes that pickup trucks, not SUVs, are the problem. ...............

.........this is gonna be a popular article out here in pickup country.....

[brushmaster1]

The problem is neither SUVs or pickups.........it's DRIVERS!

[Ciberblade]

Are vans a problem? Or how about large cars?
I don't understand the desire for some to 'blame' an object, to what end? Just to remove responsibility of the person?

[lighthouse]

I remember someone once said that the most dangerous part of any vehicle is the driver!!! Volvos were a bit of a problem because they are so well built, with loads of safety features for those in it, that it led to a sense of indestructabilty in the driver - which in turn meant risk to anyone else on the road in other cars, because the Volvo driver wasn't as mindfull of dangers. I guess this applies to a lot of SUVs because they're similarly made. Pickups? How much depends on what you've got in the back?

[plschwartz]

The Slate author, I think correctly suggests that the trouble with most statistics of this nature assume what car companies know is not true . That is that the drivers of all vechiles are the same. He states that one quite possible reason minivans are so safe is that they are driven by soccer moms. Large SUVs seem mostly driven by "aggresive young jerks". In my experience mostly in and around NYC the absolute worst drivers driver Lincoln Navigators. It used to be doctors in Cadillacs (from new jersey) the bain of new york driving. But the Lincolns are fearless in tailgating especially cars.
And of course pickup trucks are driven by cowboys

[Funkmeister]

Interesting topic. All cars designed within the next few years have to incorporate pedestrian safety features, eg. crumple zones, certain heights for bumpers (or fenders for y'all in the US!) as well as things like a space between the bonnet and top of the engine block. Apparently significant injuries are caused when a pedestrian's legs are taken out by the front of a car and their head impacts the bonnet right in the middle and strikes the top of the engine.

This debate has caused furore amongst car designers and motorists - some of the most beautiful, aerodynamic or efficient designs represent the most danger. Can you imagine a Lamborghini being banned because its nose is too low to the ground? Or a Ferrari like the 612 Scaglietti being killed off because it doesn't have sufficient clearance under the bonnet for the stunning 6 litre V12?

One of the things that always strikes me is the propensity that the populace at large has to shift blame from themselves to something or someone else. For example, you cannot blame a car for an accident under any circumstances, be it a 4x4, sports car or family hatchback. Doubtless, I would rather be hit by the sports car (what a way to go, getting mown down by a Ferrari....lol) than an SUV, but either way, both should be going at speeds where they are able to stop should a pedestrian step out. The damage done by either @ 20mph will be less than the damage done by either @ 40mph.

This perhaps opens an interesting debate on the use of APPROPRIATE speed.

I confess, I love speed. I love the thrill. I have - and frequently do - 120mph+ on a clear, dry open road when there is little traffic around. However, on a wet, rainy day I stick to about 60 max and leave LOTS of space around me for braking and avoidance should the requirement arise.

Past a school at 15:00, I won't even do 30, sometimes only 20mph max - god knows I don't want the death of a child on my conscience. If I put anyone in danger, it should only be myself and that is my choice. I make sure that my use of speed is appropriate - if I am the only person on a motorway at 03:00 then why stick to 70mph when 100+ would be perfectly safe and get me home 20-30% faster?

Add to this the advances made in car design in areas such as braking. The average family car will now stop so quickly that the previous measures used as guidelines no longer apply. At the extreme end of the scale, a Porsche 911 GT2 with PCCB discs will go from 60-0 in 2.6 seconds! And Ultima (a british sports car manufacturer) have just taken the world record for the 0-100-0mph time - an astonishing 10.3 secs! It hit 60 in 2.8secs, 100 in 5.9 and back to 0 again in 4.4secs! Obviously these are the exceptions to the rule, but your average hatchback will anchor up far quicker than a 20-year old classic car will.

Soon the only place we will be able to enjoy the thrill of driving will be dedicated trackdays - and even then the Police sit outside the tracks waiting for drivers who have spent a day getting their thrills to creep over a speed limit on the way home!

Cars like the SMART and Lotus Elise offer serious handling fun at lower speeds - lightweight and chuckable, they offer as much fun at 50mph as they do at 80. It becomes more about handling and dynamics than outright speed. But again, these would be deemed dangerous under the new design regulations.

I think that whatever you drive, you should take responsibility for your actions and driving, rather than offload it onto something else. Step up and be accountable.

I have included some interesting links on the topic below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1372731.stm
http://www.maa.nsw.gov.au/pdfs/ped_safety_sem7.pdf
http://barc.bham.ac.uk/pedestrian_research1.htm
http://www.brunel.ac.uk/research/exp...utosafety.html

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by plschwartz

The Slate author, I think correctly suggests that the trouble with most statistics of this nature assume what car companies know is not true . That is that the drivers of all vechiles are the same. He states that one quite possible reason minivans are so safe is that they are driven by soccer moms. Large SUVs seem mostly driven by "aggresive young jerks". In my experience mostly in and around NYC the absolute worst drivers driver Lincoln Navigators. It used to be doctors in Cadillacs (from new jersey) the bain of new york driving. But the Lincolns are fearless in tailgating especially cars.
And of course pickup trucks are driven by cowboys

I think your talking from a view of personal frustration, the 'aggressive young jerks' have always been on the road...going too fast in sports cars, taking pickup trucks over the curb, tailgating have been done by all drivers, not their vehicles, yet the SUV driver is worse...how? And the SUV's (at least in my area) are being driven by soccer moms.

The vehicle has done nothing, and it is unfair to judge by the car...it's like saying "those damn pricks in BMW's" How do you know? Whats the criteria? Because one cut you off in traffic? What about the VW Bug that did the same 15 mins earlier? Do the same feelings transfer to the Bug driver?

[Infidel_Kastro]

Originally Posted by ciberblade

I think your talking from a view of personal frustration, the 'aggressive young jerks' have always been on the road...going too fast in sports cars, taking pickup trucks over the curb, tailgating have been done by all drivers, not their vehicles, yet the SUV driver is worse...how? And the SUV's (at least in my area) are being driven by soccer moms.

The vehicle has done nothing, and it is unfair to judge by the car...it's like saying "those damn pricks in BMW's" How do you know? Whats the criteria? Because one cut you off in traffic? What about the VW Bug that did the same 15 mins earlier? Do the same feelings transfer to the Bug driver?

CB,
Any car that has a bud holder in the dash should be summarily, and with full prejudice, destroyed, never to be mass produced again.

[WarC]

bud holder?!

[Infidel_Kastro]

Originally Posted by WarC

bud holder?!

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/newsar...doc=vwg0201292

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by ciberblade

I think your talking from a view of personal frustration, the 'aggressive young jerks' have always been on the road...going too fast in sports cars, taking pickup trucks over the curb, tailgating have been done by all drivers, not their vehicles, yet the SUV driver is worse...how? And the SUV's (at least in my area) are being driven by soccer moms.

The vehicle has done nothing, and it is unfair to judge by the car...it's like saying "those damn pricks in BMW's" How do you know? Whats the criteria? Because one cut you off in traffic? What about the VW Bug that did the same 15 mins earlier? Do the same feelings transfer to the Bug driver?

As a motorcyclist, I've developed a dislike for most traffic that has more than two wheels.......

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by Stoner

As a motorcyclist, I've developed a dislike for most traffic that has more than two wheels.......

I hear ya

[LANMaster]

I traded in my carbon monoxide belching Oldsmobile Delta 98 for this little honey.

I pity the VW bug that runs into me.

[Wet Chicken]

Originally Posted by brushmaster1

The problem is neither SUVs or pickups.........it's DRIVERS![/b]

This is so wrong it's downright funny

Since their beginning SUV's have ALWAYS been the most dangerous vehicles on the road! This is a fact! The government has known this but way back ten years or so when SUV's were just getting popular Ford sent thousands of their lobbyist to flood Washington to keep a new law from going through. This law would have made all the manufactures make SUV's a safe as cars, and get the same gas mileage. Ford did not like this law because SUV's make twice as much PROFIT as cars do, so they used unfair tactics to pressure the government into not to passing the law. PBS did a big investigation on this around 3 years ago. It was so funny because right as they were ending the program an accident happened down the street from where they were filming. What's funny about that? Well it was a SUV's that had over flipped over on it side