[plschwartz]

Another fall out of Bush's Iraq obsession.

Fifty years ago the was a huge uproar from the conservatives asking who lost China (allowed the communists to win)

While we were focued on Iraq, Putin has been steadily moving Russia back into a totalitarian state. Remember that Bush felt he and Putin were sympatico?

FACT vs. FICTION....The following is fiction. It takes place on board the Death Star in the first Star Wars movie:

GRAND MOFF TARKIN: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

COMMANDER TAGGE: That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

TARKIN: The regional governors now have direct control over territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line.

The following is fact. It is currently taking place in Moscow, the capital of the Russian Federation:

President Vladimir Putin outlined plans Monday to "radically" change the Russian political system in a way that would increase his own power, portraying the moves as a means of combating terrorism in the aftermath of this month's deadly school seizure.

Putin's plan would eliminate the popular election of governors and individual members of parliament. The president would appoint governors, subject to the confirmation of regional legislatures. All members of the lower house of parliament, known as the State Duma, would be drawn from party lists rather than elected in individual districts.

Elimination of the elected legislature. Direct control of regional governors. A tightening grip from the center. This does not sound much like democracy promotion to me.

George Bush had a meeting with Vladimir Putin three years ago and said, "I looked the man in the eye. I was able to get a sense of his soul." I wonder if he still feels the same way?

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

[Raeli]

Putin Moves to Strengthen Kremlin's Power
Email this Story

Sep 13, 6:11 PM (ET)

By MARA BELLABY

(AP) President Vladimir Putin heads an extraordinary meeting of the Russian Cabinet in Moscow Monday,...


MOSCOW (AP) - President Vladimir Putin on Monday demanded an overhaul of Russia's political system, including an end to the direct popular election of governors, saying the changes were needed to combat terrorism.

Critics charged the Russian leader was using the bloody outcome of the Beslan school siege to grab more power.

The former KGB spy, saying the future of the country was at stake, called for creation of a powerful anti-terror agency "capable of not only dealing with terror attacks but also working to avert them, destroy criminals in their hideouts and, if necessary, abroad."

Some 430 people have been killed in terror attacks in Russia over the last three weeks, including 330 people in the bloody end to the school siege in Beslan in southern Russia. More than half the dead at the school were children. Ninety people died when suspected Chechen women suicide bombers blew up of two Russian airliners in flight.

Curiously, however, the Russian leader's proposals focused largely on electoral changes. Putin said he would propose legislation abolishing the election of local governors by popular vote. Instead they would be nominated by the president and confirmed by local legislatures. He said the change was needed to streamline and strengthen the executive branch to better combat terror.

Putin also asked for an overhaul of the way Russians elect their parliament. The entire 450 seats would be elected from candidates on party lists. At present about half are chosen that way, meaning many candidates can win seats while representing no party. It also had allowed a candidate to win a place in the legislature even if representing a party that garnered too few seats as an organization to win representation.

Critics warned that Putin's reliance on central control could weaken the nation further separating those in power from their constituents.

Since taking office in 1999, Putin has constantly worked to rein in the governors. He has tossed them out of Russia's upper house of parliament, appointing seven regional envoys to monitor them.

"Today, all the power agencies that are supposed to fight terrorism are subordinated directly to the president. ... It's incomprehensible why on top of that he has to name governors," Sergei Mitrokhin, a leading member of the liberal Yabloko faction, told Russia's Ekho Moskvy radio. "It shows that the president doesn't know what to do, he's at a loss."

Sergei Markov, a political analyst with close ties to the Kremlin, said the president's move against the governors could help curb corruption that has flourished in some regions.

"At the same time, it means ... a lowering of (their) general political authority and a serious lowering of political pluralism," Markov told Ekho Moskvy.

Vladimir Ryzhkov, one of the few opposition deputies in the State Duma, scorned the president's political proposals and warned that the next election would produce a Duma of "marionette party lists and (that) won't enjoy any authority."

Russians, however, feel that the elected governors and legislators are even more corrupt than Communist administrators in Soviet times. They also have traditionally clamored for a firm hand to restore order and now want action against terrorism, often telling journalists terrorist attacks would never have happened under the late dictator Stalin.

Putin also said official corruption had resulted in terrorists getting official travel and residence documents "leading to grave consequences." Putin named one of his closest confidants, Cabinet chief of staff Dmitry Kozak, to represent him in the southern district that includes the Caucasus, which he called "a key strategic region for Russia" and "a victim of terrorism and also a springboard for it."

He also proposed a new structure called the Public Chamber that he said would strengthen public oversight of the government and the actions of law enforcement agencies.

The Russian president, who in 1999 as Russia's prime minister ordered troops back into Chechnya after apartment bombings in Moscow blamed on Chechens, made the new proposals Monday to Cabinet members and security officials convened in special session.

.

This is highly worrying, and worth keeping an eye on.

Makes me glad, once again, to live over here.

[sergei]

I"m a Russian and I too am very glad and happy to be here. Its things like Putins recall to dominance power over Russia that remind me of why it is that i'm glad. We have always looked to the power of the state for our power, I guess we get what/who we elect. I'm so feed up with the system and the peoples in Russia of understanding of how things are in the world and in their country. The few that have the ability the will the love for the motherland are labeled gay, ie http://www.gay.ru/english/communty/p...2004-02-05.htm <-- thats what running against Putin gets ya, these few get cheated, kidnapped, and recieve no room to breath or speak, (considering that Putin has a 50 times tighter grip on the Russian Media then a Republican lobyist for fox). Maybe this is an after effect of a dictatorship Communist country, maybe it will change with the new generation coming up (hope). As a Russian this pains me in unexplainable ways, the destruction of one, if not the riches culture in the world, but there is nothing one can do to help someone that doesnt want help. Now I feel the threat is upon Europe, and in turn Europe should be much nicer to the Americans then they currently are. They have to remember that drunk Boris is sitting there with a load of nuclear arsenal and ready to just give up rather easily at any particular time without caring or particular cause. I feel that the only way to make Russia heel is through economic terms. Although Russia in itself doesnt need the rest of the world (its rich enough with its own resources) it will be required to trade for an increase of about 1000 % efficiency. So inturn moves such as the ones posted above, should be punishable by denial of acceptance into the WTO and rejections of Russia as the G8'th. This will make the former KGB scum to rethink their positions on human rights and democratic ways. Unfortunatly EU cannot make Russia listen, only the United States of America will be listened to by the Russians but unfortuantly divided views on Iraq and human rights violations have brought the two into separate corners.

[plschwartz]

The old joke about the drunk who lost his keys who keeps looking under the streelight because thats where he can see reminds me that Condi has a background in US-Russia relations.(her streetlight) Maybe she will start after Russia so she can know what she is doing


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...home-headlines
Administration Considers More Aggressive Russia Policy
By Paul Richter
Times Staff Writer

6:23 PM PST, December 11, 2004

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration is beginning a broad review of its Russia policy that could lead to a more confrontational approach toward Moscow over its treatment of neighboring countries and its own citizens, U.S. officials said.

For the past four years, the administration muted its criticism of Russia's approach to democratic values as Washington tried to build a "strategic partnership" with Moscow to fight terrorism and weapons proliferation.

But the Bush team's approach has faced growing doubts, including from some within the administration. Now in his second term, Russian President Vladimir V. Putin has reduced media freedom and cracked down on political opponents at home, while working against pro-Western forces in neighboring countries such as Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova.

Questions about U.S. policy have gained a new urgency in the past three weeks, as the United States and Russia have sparred over a presidential election in Ukraine. Washington and the European Union rejected the results as rigged, and after public protests, the matter went to the country's Supreme Court, which overturned the victory of the pro-Russian candidate.

The outcome appeared to suggest that a more aggressive U.S. policy might help catalyze democratic change throughout the region.

"It is fair to say we are reassessing this relationship as we go into the new term," said one U.S. official, who asked to remain unidentified.

He said a key question is whether Moscow, with its deep involvement in the Ukrainian election, had pushed the issue to a "tipping point," forcing the administration to consider a more assertive approach. Last week, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell sharpened his rhetoric about Moscow, expressing concern about "developments in Russia affecting freedom of the press and the rule of law."

The official, however, cautioned against predicting the outcome of the policy review, saying arguments can be made that the most effective way to bring about democratic change in Russia is through a close partnership that can apply "steady, constant, subtle pressure."

The current U.S. policy on Russia has had support from key officials, beginning with national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, who is expected to assume her new role as Secretary of state in January. Rice, who trained as a Russia specialist, is considered the original advocate of a "realist" approach to Moscow, and was key in persuading President Bush to adopt that stance early in the first term.

But several officials in the Bush inner circle believe the United States should speak forcefully for democratic values in Russia and the surrounding region.

Putin in recent months has drawn criticism for sweeping measures such as curtailing regional elections, restricting media freedoms and limiting individual rights. By diminishing authority elsewhere, critics say, Putin has been able to consolidate his own power. U.S. officials also are concerned that Putin covertly is reasserting Russia's influence over former Soviet states.

Within the Bush administration, Daniel Fried, senior director for Europe and Eurasia at the National Security Council, feels strongly that the United States should champion democratic values in the region, analysts said. Fried is considered a leading candidate to become assistant secretary of state for Europe and Eurasia; his appointment could be an important signal of the new thinking on Russia policy, observers say.

Senior aides to Vice President Dick Cheney, such as foreign policy advisor Victoria Nuland, also favor more stringent advocacy for democratic values in the region, analysts said. It has become increasingly difficult, they said, for the White House to overlook Russia's performance on democratic issues when Bush has put spreading democracy at the top of his agenda.

Michael McFaul, an expert on Russia at Stanford University's Hoover Institution, said the U.S. approach in Ukraine demonstrates a shift from official thinking at the beginning of Bush's first term.

In their handling of the Ukraine election crisis, U.S. officials have acted based on the view that "if you stick to your guns and provide principled words and assistance to the opposition, you can bring change," he said. "That was not at all the view you heard in these .125internal.375 debates three years ago."

Although Bush did not begin his presidency intending to be an activist in the region, he could end up in that role, McFaul said.

"It will be interesting to see if this kind of thinking reaches in the second term to places where it didn't in the first," he said.

McFaul said the White House has been forced to rethink its policy in part because Putin went so far in trying to reassert Moscow's influence over Ukraine.

"If Putin was a polite, quasi-autocratic ally in the war on terrorism, nobody would have any wiggle room to reevaluate the policy. . . . It's been his extreme policy on Ukraine that's made it difficult to keep pretending he's an ally," McFaul said.

The White House may also be rethinking its approach to Russia in part because its alliance with Moscow has been a disappointment to U.S. officials in other departments.

Russia has taken only a minor role in U.S.-led efforts to roll back North Korea's nuclear program and has continued to build a nuclear complex for Iran, despite Washington's concerns. Moscow also has been less helpful than expected on counterterrorism efforts, and U.S. hopes for joint energy development have been hurt by Russia's moves to renationalize part of its energy sector, analysts say.

"While relations between President Bush and President Vladimir Putin have been cordial, expectations of a semi-alliance have not materialized," Stephen Sestanovich, a senior U.S. envoy to the former Soviet states under President Clinton, wrote last month in a report for the Council on Foreign Relations.

One administration official said one major issue that would be considered in the policy review was whether Moscow, frustrated by what it sees as U.S. meddling in its backyard, was itself edging toward a harsher approach toward Washington. He noted that in several appearance over the last few days, Putin, apparently stung by the failure of the pro-Russian candidate in Ukraine, has been sharply critical of the United States.

Despite signs of a shift in U.S. approach, many experts hesitate to predict that the Bush administration will adopt a bold new policy that could jeopardize ties to Russia. Moscow still has much to offer as an ally, they note, and, if alienated, can do serious damage to U.S. plans in the Middle East and elsewhere.

James M. Goldgeier, who served on the National Security Council under former President Clinton, said that although U.S. language has become increasingly blunt, the most forceful criticisms of Russia still came from Powell. The secretary of state has been outspoken for some time while Bush has remained mostly conciliatory, he said, noting that strong language from the president and Rice would be a more important sign of a shifting approach.


If you want other stories on this topic, search the Archives at latimes.com/archives.

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Copyright 2004 Los Angeles Times

[MSM Hobbes]

sergei, welcome to TSG. wonderful to hear your views on this subject, one that I find quite interesting, since I've always been enthralled w/ this country and the peoples there. As you say, it is a rich country, rich in minerals, etc., but also in pride and history. While I would love to see a more free Russian society, to think that "we" can force such upon them via economic or military or other pressures is quite naive, in my opinion - as mentioned in the thread above and according to other reports I've read [if they are true???], so many Russian citizens would gladly take a very strong centralized government if that is believed the better path to fight terrorism and/or other fears, be they real or imagined. Sometime ago, I recall that some claimed that many of these terrorism acts where set up if not entirely supported by Putin and/or his followers so that the stage would be set to increase his power. One only needs to look at what happened here in the USA to see what occured in this "free" country after 9/11... Patriot Act. Homeland Security. Etc. Of course, I'm one of them thar fools that have read "1984" and related books and then see eery resemblences in the here and now. No, not paranoid, but nonetheless find it all many times too coincidental. Sortof like that movie "Conspiracy Theory"... But, getting back to Putin and what he represents, I believe that in times of fear and darkness, the peoples look to a person that at the least represents power, strength, and will. Again, using the USA as a mirror of Russia, Bush represented those traits, whereas Kerry appeared weak, wishy-washy, and to be a major flip flopper... Bush got my vote, for better or worse, and altho' there are many traits that his administration has that go strongly against my grain, again, it was that he represented strong leadership, can-do attitude, and a belief/faith in our country. hmmmmmm... just how similar in some ways is that thought process to some w/in Russia that prefer Putin over an unknown or weak-appearing entity?

Putin himself is a strong person, as is Russia itself a strong country. The US may believe its a superpower, the only one still around, but... not if, but when a combination of Russia, China, and India act w/ a common voice, just think of the repurcusions... Curious to know how much of that found w/in this web site http://www.alternativeinsight.com/Pu..._Rasputin.html is really valid? Such as "The power that Putin's Russia will derive from its economic advantage is complemented by the military strength of its nuclear capability, an immense arsenal of nuclear bombs and the land, sea and air delivery systems for sending the bombs to any place in the world. Only Russia's hydrogen bomb threat can neutralize the U.S. military power. Moscow's one-two punch will attract nations that fear U.S. military might and its global reach. Nations that desire an umbrella of security for sovereign survival and need a rainfall of vital resources for economic survival will partner with Putin's new Russia."

For more insight into this enigma wrapped in a mystery , and specifically the effect of Putin's attack against private industries:

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2004/12/10/001.html

"Nearly $10 billion was wiped off Russian stocks Thursday as investors continued to bail out over fears that a surprise $158 million tax claim against No. 2 mobile phone operator VimpelCom signaled a new arbitrary onslaught against private business.

The RTS plummeted another 5 percent, sending the benchmark index down 10 percentage points in just two days to close at 546.1. The steep decline sent it below its Jan. 1, 2004, level, reversing the rapid growth trends of recent years that have seen Russia outperform most other emerging markets.

"International investors are radically changing their view of Russia," said Alexander Kim, equity strategist at Renaissance Capital. "They are reassessing the risk premium for the country and we are seeing a massive reduction of position."

Investors have already been spooked over the Kremlin's protracted legal onslaught against oil major Yukos, which faces breakup in a Dec. 19 auction of Yuganskneftegaz, its key production unit, over $20 billion in outstanding tax bills. But Wednesday's tax claim against VimpelCom appeared to dash previous hopes that the attack on Yukos was an isolated case of payback for its jailed former CEO Mikhail Khodorkovsky's political ambitions."

Would love to be able to attend the following seminars:
http://fpc.org.uk/research/24
The Russia project will include a series of seminars, public lectures by prominent international figures, related publications and a major conference. A high priority objective will be to achieve wider UK discussion of political events in Russia that affect the durability of the democratic reforms already put in place over the thirteen years since Boris Yeltsin was first elected as President of the Russian Republic in June 1991. A key reference point of the project will be the five years of the Presidency of Vladimir Putin, first appointed to the post in January 2000 after Yeltsin stepped down. A major event in the project will be an international conference in January 2005 to mark the fifth anniversary of Putin's assumption of the Presidency.

The FPC proposes to focus on the mechanisms by which Western governments, especially the UK, can revitalise the question of Russian democratic governance as one of the central issues of European politics today. The FPC will address ways that the UK can apply whatever leverage it possesses (including through multilateral economic co-operation agreements) to vigorously promote the protection of the hard-won rights and freedoms in Russia

[MSM Hobbes]

Oh, and if interested in seeing what one of the papers in Moscow, the capitol of our "ally" Russia has to say, turn the page to:

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2004/12/10/120.html

When the devil comes knocking on your front door, looking for a way to spread his evil inside, he won't be sporting horns and a tail. He's going to come dressed as your sweetest dream, clean as a whistle, pious, sincere. He's going to speak your lingo, ape your ways -- and when he opens up his little box of poison, it's going to look like the heaven your mama sang about when she rocked you to sleep in your cradle.

Then one day, when the mind-fog lifts, you see him sitting at the head of the table, the walls of the room smeared with filth, dead bodies swelling on the blood-mucked floor, the still-living victims hog-tied and naked, screaming for mercy as the whipcords strike. He beckons you forward with a welcoming smile. You pause for a moment. It seems so strange: All this horror -- it would have once made you sick, but now it just feels like ... home. You shrug, you grin, you take your place beside him at the feast.

In just this way, while Americans were finishing their Thanksgiving dinners and preparing to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, a series of stories exposed -- once again -- the torture chamber at the heart of their feast: a government gone insane, embracing terror, atrocity and tyranny. Yet there was no public outcry against these desecrations. Few even noticed; fewer still cared.

Last week, the minions of George W. Bush announced, in open court, that he has the power to seize anyone on earth -- even "little old ladies in Switzerland" -- and imprison them forever if he so chooses, The New York Times reports. The minions said that anyone Bush declared "an enemy combatant" -- even if they never took up arms against America, even if they didn't know their actions were related to terrorism in any way -- could be abducted from any nation, friend or foe, or in the Homeland itself, and held indefinitely, "at the president's discretion," stripped of all rights under the U.S. Constitution or the Geneva Conventions.
...snip...
In such a moral sink, it was hardly even news that more photos of prisoner abuse -- taken months before the Abu Ghraib atrocities -- were uncovered last weekend, Reuters reports. This time it was "elite" teams of Navy SEALs mugging for the cameras with bloodied captives -- some with guns to their heads. Nor did anyone blink when Bush military brass announced plans last week to create forced labor camps for all male citizens in "liberated" Fallujah, the Boston Globe reports.

This Satan's Rout of blood and abandon comes directly from the White House, where Bush's legal counsel, Al Gonzales, engineered memos "justifying" torture and exalting unrestricted presidential power, beyond the reach of any law, foreign or domestic. As a reward for this violent outrage of American honor, Gonzales -- sweet-talking, pious and sincere, just like his boss -- will soon become the chief law officer of the land.

And the American people, what do they do about all the horror being wrought in their name? They shrug. They grin. They sit down to the feast.

hmmmm... an interesting perspective. propaganda, certainly. but, to this extent? now?

[lighthouse]

It's a bit like something from an early 80s edition of Pravda isn't it! Also, all the references to "Satan" etc read a bit like an edict from the Ayatollah. How the hell did it happen when we reach a point where the really distressing thing is it appears to make about as much sense in these highly charged and frightening times as a lot of other stuff written in the west on the subject? We have our anti-Bush/war press here in the UK, but they have to adhere to the knowledge that their publications are sold to the people of the biggest ally of the US in the current conflict. Subsequently they have to keep their editorial within the market force of retaining advertisers and circulation, so they aren't as - erm - outspoken about it. Oh - how the world has changed......or going backwards.........or something! Is this something of a 'Wake up' call to Americans, or suggestive of something else happening on the streets of the Russian capital?

[plschwartz]

As a sometime reader of the Moscow Times I have never decided if their column "Global Eye" is tongue in cheek or not. However yes it does sound like Pravda of old, yet its content is often dead on.
If you look at the rest of the paper you will find it is within the usual "Times" tradion, rather balanced and slightly liberal.
I personally, having read Pravda of old enjoy the shall we say "archaic" prose used here.

[MSM Hobbes]

Some other news regarding Putin, etal:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...poison_problem

MOSCOW - In the bloodstained post-Soviet period, feuds over money and power have often been solved by bullets or bombs. But confirmation that Ukrainian opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko was disfigured by dioxin draws attention to suspicious cases in Russia in which poison may have been used to silence political foes and settle business scores.

...snip...

Some suspected poisonings do not appear politically motivated. Around the same time Yushchenko was sickened, prominent St. Petersburg security company chief Roman Tsepov died after suffering symptoms of severe food poisoning.

Russian media reported that Tsepov was murdered with a massive dose of a leukemia drug, though prosecutors said Tuesday they have not confirmed he was poisoned.

A company run by Tsepov once provided security to Putin when he was a bureaucrat in St. Petersburg, but that was not seen as a factor in his death. Tsepov survived three assassination attempts in the 1990s and had ties to lucrative businesses that could have made him a target.

Nevertheless, the small but growing list of suspected cases shows that poisoning is "not random — that it's a way of dealing with political leaders," Dilendorf said.

It's frightening, she said, "because it means that it's possible to dispose of anyone and go unpunished — absolutely unpunished. And it's very hard to prove."

[lighthouse]

Hi Sergei. Welcome to TSG. I presume you must be somewhere in western USA by looking at the local time on your profile!!! What ever you're in the west for I hope it works out and they're making you feel welcome in the US. Yeah - I had a look at the link on your posting and thought it rather nasty - Politics eh!!! I suppose you have to wonder how long it would take for democracy in Russia to become fair - or at least seen as such by all Russians and the rest of the world.. Being the largest country in the world and emerging from Tsarist autocracy through menshevism then bolshevism and the huge political change of the early 90s that process of democratisation isn't going to happen over night!


MSM hobbs: ........although it wouldn't surprise me entirely

[sergei]

MSM Hobbes I agree with you, I am naive, but what else could I be? I'm not an anti-Putin voter because I do not agree with his over all decisions, but I am about the way that they are done. For example, I do not see a large difference between Bush and Putin, if they switch seats we probably wouldnt have noticed, other then Putin can give great speeches off of the top of his head without stumbeling unlike Bush. The difference in the state? well the grip on media in Russia? Oh well yea all the major networks are state controlled, but what about GE ownening network stations, what about the right wing FOX ABC CNN NBC?, those are all controlled medias, just as bad as Russian media. Freedom of democracy? Well we all know what happend in the 2000 elections, and now all of a sudden we are all concious of the "electoral college" and how in America there isnt a democracy but rather an illusion of one. However this method I find to be far more effective then the inyourface approach of "dictatorish" Russia. The media and election is pretty much the same, who do we see on the all the major networks talking debate? Bush and Kerry, do they differ greatly? no, they do on certain "voter" interested issues and different solutions for dealing with issue, but not drasticly different. For example in "democratic" Russia, we have about 30 different parties running, those are parties that go from communists, liberals, conservatives, nationalist, we have a womens party, blah blah blah, in other words have fun filling out the voter ballot for the next 3 hours (off subject, but I really feel sorry for the Iraqies who have over 200!!! parties on the ballot), or when did you last see Ralph Nader in the big major network covered debate with Kerry and Bush? Now to assure that Ralphy will never win we have the electoral vote, democratic? NO!

When I go outside, in the state that I live in, most people are happy, most dont really care about whats going on in the world or in politics, they let the great leaders decide while they live out their lives to thier own enjoyment, rarely are they seriously bothered by a serious issue, but when they are those issues recieve respect. Most foreigners that come to this country are amazed at how everybody on the streets almost always smile and are almost always willing to help. That is my problem with Putin and the Kremlin, they do not respect the Russian people enough, they make them go through misery and pain without giving them respect and the love they deserve after so much has happend through out our history. They themselves believe in power, much like many other individual Russians whom are a reflection of the state and vice versa. In Russia you wont get a freindly smile from the passer by, try asking what time it is in the Moscow airport, see what kind of response you'll get. This train of thought can be changed by way of money, people are mostly nice to you when they know that potential money is involved, so for example if you get mean looks at Walmart you stop gong there, walmart will loose business and will change their attiture, Russian government is much the same, take away the customers (economics) and watch those Kremlin frowns go upside down.


P.S. Just to vent a little frustration, lets not forget the horrible judgement Putin made to back Yanukovich in the Ukrainian elections, how embarrasing for all Russian?! To give full support while being almost violently directing accusations at the west, all while loosing the case in point, horrible, horrible decision making, how many millions did Putin spend on the Yanukovich's elections? somewhere in the 350 mill i heard, all that money could have gone to house our military which in disastorous conditions. A fool if you ask me, Russia has far better chess players then this guy.

[MSM Hobbes]

sergei... Why is the Russian culture the way it is? Why does misery, etal. such a common denominator in that region? Is it embedded so deep that there is none, to maybe only slight, chance of, as you put it, turning those frowns upside down? BTW, like your commentary regarding your observations of US politics!

[Infidel_Kastro]

Why, did you find it?

[WarC]

plschwartz misses the days of the good 'ole USSR, thats all

Funny how Putin screwing the ruskies is "Bush's fallout", though...

[sergei]

No i'm not saying that Bush is responsible for the "fallout" no the US has absolutely no obligation, more like personal interests in the matter.