[EdGreene]

The "Guys" are men old enough to have seen 50 or more John Wayne movies. But the "Guys" willingly still think of Wayne as 1. "Alive", 2. "Manly", A 3. Hero", 4. A "Man's man".
The younger “Guys” have seen “ahnold” and think almost the same of him since he is a live Super Hero:

What the guys want

Mon Sep 13, 4:33 PM ET

By Kenneth T. Walsh

George W. Bush has it down: the "bring 'em on" macho sensibility, the public swagger, even the quick-draw High Noon cowboy stride. Call it the testosterone factor. It's one reason Bush has maintained a strong appeal to white men throughout his presidency, (especially in the South and Southwest. (My emphasis) His lead among white men, in fact, has held steady at about 20 points nationally over Democratic challenger John Kerry (news - web sites) for months and, because of his projection of strength in the war on terror, may actually be increasing.

Dubya did a "John Wayne" thing landing on the Carrier. His swagger, his "Good ole boy" demeanor in front of a microphone also mirror Wayne's attitudes and mannerisms.

Latest headlines:
· Bush Commends Military in Terror Fight

While the gender gap has been examined endlessly, it has been seen mostly in terms of the Republicans' deficit among female voters; Kerry holds a 6-point lead among women in the latest Washington Post /ABC News poll. Less noticed but just as important is the Republican advantage among white men, who constitute 39 percent of the electorate.
"Part of it is a Republican thing," says Rutgers political scientist Ross Baker, "but a good part of it is a Bush thing. For guys who drank and loafed their way through college, he's a familiar figure." And, it turns out, a popular one. In his early years, Bush was a likable party animal, seemingly committed to a lifestyle of making wisecracks (Mulder?), chasing women, and guzzling brew. He says he reformed two decades ago, giving up alcohol and becoming a born-again Christian. As president, he has come across in an equally comfortable way to white men--as a strong commander in chief and a conservative who seeks to return honor and responsibility to public life.

What works for most white men (as opposed, for example, to African-American men, who evaluate the president in starkly different terms) is Bush's reputation as an "average guy," says a senior White House official--the opposite of what California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (news - web sites) famously calls "girlie men."
Baker says Bush "has a down-to-earth quality that men find appealing. You know he won't slip off to a quiet place and strum a six-string guitar." And his support among white males has helped Bush open up a 52-to-43 percent lead over Kerry among likely voters, according to that Washington Post /ABC News poll.

Vacillating. No Democratic presidential candidate has won a majority of white male voters since Jimmy Carter in 1976. That's partly because the party's candidates have come across as vacillating on military issues and lenient on social concerns like crime and federal "giveaways" to the poor.

The Republican Mantra, no, read "Dogma" or Catechism since 1974. No Democrat except Clinton had the John Wayne Factor, and he despite his draft dodging)

Al Gore (news - web sites) got only 36 percent of the white male vote in 2000; Bush pulled 60 percent. Bush now has about 57 percent support among white men to Kerry's 39, according to GOP pollster Ed Goeas, and Bush appears to be gaining momentum on issues most important to those voters, such as making America safe and waging the war in Iraq (news - web sites). Bush leads Kerry by 8 points among single white men and by 20 points among married white men, according to recent polling.
Adding to Kerry's problems, if the Democratic challenger tries to court the white male vote too aggressively, he risks alienating white single women and minorities who are turned off by Bush's macho tendencies.

Dubya plays to the "Joe Six pack", Good 'ole boys crowd all the time.

Joe Lockhart, former White House spokesman for Bill Clinton (news - web sites) and now a Kerry adviser, says, "If you want the easiest way to define the Bush doctrine, it's what I call the testosterone presidency. They've worked very hard making him look like Gary Cooper in High Noon. Why? Men have testosterone. Does that make good policy? No, of course not."

OK, I used John Wayne but you get my drift.

But Bush advisers say the president's big advantage in attracting the "white-guy vote" is that he can just be himself. Bush, like those in this core constituency, likes to watch sports on television, enjoys fishing, doesn't take himself too seriously, and doesn't express himself well. White males like to see themselves in what White House officials call Bush's "moral clarity," his attitude toward the war on terrorism, and his espousal of conservative values, such as opposition to gay marriage.
"Bush has his flaws," says Ted Stout, 39, who runs a bus company in Scranton, Pa., where Bush and Kerry made stops after their respective conventions. "But there's no question that when he says he's going to do something, he does it.

Even if what he does or has done is wrong, morally and ethically: this present was for example.

That's what I like about him." Stout, waiting to bowl on league night at Scranton's Southside Bowl, adds: "He might seem a little dull-witted, but he's an average person. He makes the right decisions when he needs to."

The "Knuckle dragger" factor as I've noted.

Sporty. "We can't be girlie men" about the war on terror, says Michael Bidwell, a 38-year-old Republican dining at Scranton's Stadium Club with three male coworkers. "We need to go after terrorism. Terrorism isn't going to go away, and we can't put a blanket over it."

Dubya gotta love this guy. His administration has shoved this war down Americans throats to the degree some of them think our war is in Iraq and not anyplace else. While Afghanistan returns to barbarism (so what if the Taliban are gone) They were just the best-organized gangsters in Afghanistan. The old “War Lords” are getting their Shiites together (if you get my drift), with the “War”, unable to be contained to just the desert and mountains but has creeped into the cities (we, “coalition forces” have never actually “Controlled” any part of Afghanistan other than around Kabul)
While that “war” languishes, the Iraq war sees Iraq itself slipping away, village by village with no end game in sight.
We are losing territory in Iraq every day. But Dubya and his gang of 40 thieves, keep telling Americans “We’re winning the war on terrorism”.

Lying Son-of-a-Bush.

w RBidwell says he has a son and a daughter serving in the Middle East and adds: "I don't want to see them over there on a mission that's not finished."

At the rate we are going in this war, his grandchildren will get to serve.

Steve Pasternak, a retired utility worker standing among "Sportsmen for Bush" signs at a pro-Bush rally in Johnstown, Pa., says he will vote for the president "because he thinks like sportsmen do. He's a hunter going after the people who need to be hunted."

Steve (and Dubya by proxy) reflect the "average" white guy's mind: real simple, everything in black and white with no room for gray. Even with a chest full of medals, Kerry has no "coin" among white guys: "He betrayed us"< whine simpering fat bellied "Guys", most of whom did not serve in Vietnam or anyplace else. Steve's attitude precisely mirrors an old South attitude and ethic;
Judge: “Steve, why did you kill that Nigra”?
Steve: “He needed killin’ your honor”.
Judge: “Case dismissed”.

Kerry has made a bid for white males by calling attention to his record as a Vietnam War combat hero. The Democratic nominee has also been emphasizing Bush's poor record on job creation and improving the economy.
But so far, none of this has made much difference. "I'd rather vote for action than inaction," says David Thorn, a 30-year-old communications representative from Overland Park, Kan., who sat in the dark-paneled comfort of O'Dowd's Little Dublin, a bar in Kansas City's upscale Plaza district. "And I'd rather stand for something than nothing. John Kerry doesn't seem to stand for anything."

A mindless, non-thinking white guy who has fallen for the John Wayne act. Worse, his thinking Parrots the Republican line on Kerry. OF course Kerry is just the latest victim of the Republican Noise Machine. It worked on another innocent man: Senator John McCain who got his a$$ chewed up and spit out by the Noise Machine.

That's not an enviable position to be in with the election less than two months away.

The dirtiest part of this campaign will happen on the Thursday-week before the election.
What we'll see will make everyone but white guys sick at the stomach and turn the world against us.

[FlashyGirl]

The "race card" falls.

[LANMaster]

Uruh!

[EdGreene]

Originally Posted by FlashyGirl

The "race card" falls.

I didn't write that, dammit. A white guy did, or had you failed to notice it was in quotes?

And what is a "race card"? Telling the truth?

[plschwartz]

Dubya doesn't mind torturing and killing Bad Guys. No wimpy UN or Geneva Convention or BS rules of law. Those only hold for other whites.
Good ole Texas justice throw a rope around a tree limb and let them hang.

http://www.picturehistory.com/images...prod_12934.jpg
See what a festive affair

You start looking at the perpetrators and spectators who treated lynchings as family affairs, civic celebrations, picnics (the preferred term was ''Negro barbecue'') and some kind of sexual catharsis...
Some wear white shirts, ties and straw boaters. And they give their children private viewings. The virtue of white womanhood is upheld by placing one's daughters (in crisp little dresses) around the tree from which a black man hangs. The black servant is there, too, in her white uniform.

http://www.racematters.org/blacklifephotos.htm

[LANMaster]

So now "W" is a racist, huh? Responsible for all the white man's crimes against the black people?
Responsible for lynching blacks as portrayed in that picture.



Real honesty coming out in this thread, eh?

[plschwartz]

LAN:
I posted that particular picture exactly because it showed the lynching as a social event., where you would take your family. Do you see the daughters in the picture- especially the one on the right smirking. Do you think that has all disappeared. Southern raccism wasn't just riders in the night, extremists but was knit into the social fabric of the old confederacy. What do you think that displaying the confederate flag means?. John Dean had it exactly right -guys in pick-ups flying the confererate flag.
In the 1960s, the Southern Baptists supported segregation laws and opposed the black civil rights movement. In 1995, the Southern Baptist Convention issued an apology to all African-Americans and asked for their forgiveness.
So white supremacy was alive and well with this group into the 1990's
And this is the Bush heartland. I do not think that Bush himself is particularly racist but I think he panders to those who are
When talking of catching Osama (or maybe Saddam) Mr. Bush used back home hunting metaphores, as if he were an animal. This country has a long history of treating "inferior races" that way, indians, chinese, japanese, The way the war was conducting against Germany and against Japan are striking. The bombing of Dresden insisted on by Churchill was the exception to bombing civilians in Germany. The firebombing of Tokyo and other Japanese cities, and the use of the A bomb was an entirely different means of warfare. We used flamethrowers liberally in the Pacific but the Brits but not us used them in Germanyhttp://www.geocities.com/dieppe_berlin/1Canada/1-InDepth/flamethrower.htm
there clearly seemed to be different rules of war against whites then other races. etc etc etc

You can fit in the treatment of Moslems afer 9/11 as you choose.
Even today Fla stae troopers are "visiting" elderly blacks and quesitoning their voting registration -clearly indimidation

(added). I think I got a little off track here. I was originally going to talk about the underlying violence still within the american culture. Guns murders emprisonment, execusions we are way ahead of the rest of the western world. And I think that coupled by the racism I discuss above allows the expression of this violence (as with the party-lynching scene posted earlier0 easily against non-white races. Notable here is the racism that some Afro-americans feel toward orientals and at least in NYC against hispanics.

[plschwartz]

Statement of Curt Goering
Senior Deputy Executive Director, Amnesty International USA
September 13, 2004


Good morning. I'm Curt Goering, Senior Deputy Executive Director at Amnesty International USA. Today Amnesty International releases its first-ever report on racial profiling in the United States. After a yearlong investigation that included analysis of statistical data, Amnesty International has found that approximately one of every nine Americans has been victimized by racial profiling and that state and federal agencies, under the guise of fighting terrorism, have expanded the use of this degrading, discriminatory and dangerous practice.
Racial profiling is not new. But the government's reliance on it has grown dramatically since the September 11th attacks. Amnesty International's review of existing data shows that an estimated 32 million Americans -- a number equivalent to the population of Canada -- have been subjected to profiling. We estimate that 87 million Americans -- almost one of every three people -- are at high risk for such abuse.
Racial profiling is to the 21st Century what Jim Crow laws were to the last, turning entire groups of people into second-class citizens and denying them the rights to which we all are due.

Today, "driving while black or brown" -- that infamous law enforcement practice of targeting African American and Latino drivers -- has been joined by "worshipping while Muslim," "walking while South Asian," "driving while Native American," and "flying while Middle Eastern." When an eight-year old Boy Scout from Tulsa is singled out by airport security, separated from his family, and searched -- his soap box derby car torn apart in the process -- because he is Muslim, it's clear that the government's use of profiling has run amok.
Racial profiling violates human rights, undermines national security, and simply does not work. When law enforcement authorities focus on what people look like, what religion they follow, or what head garb they wear, officials may overlook suspect behavior, and that makes us all less safe.
The reality is that no one knows what the next terrorist or drug trafficker will look like. Racial profiling blinds law enforcement to real criminal threats and creates a hole in the national security net large enough to drive a truck through. Unless the federal and state governments end this pernicious practice, the frightening reality is that, with terrorist acts on the rise, the next truck may be loaded with explosives and the driver anyone but a Muslim or person of Middle Eastern descent. We are all at risk.
Let me tell you the story of Kimberly "Asma" Al-Hamsi, and later you will hear similar stories from several of our speakers. Ms. Al-Hamsi is a white American Muslim of German heritage who testified at hearings that Amnesty International held across the country. Ms. Al-Hamsi has multiple sclerosis, walks with a crutch, and wears a hijab. In the aftermath of September 11th, while waiting for a friend at a Grapevine, Texas, mall with her son, who is deaf and has cerebral palsy, Ms. Al-Hamsi was accosted by a man and two women. They yelled at her to go back home, saying she doesn't belong in this country.
As if that indignity were not enough, several plain-clothed officers then approached Ms. Al-Hamsi. She said that one officer grabbed her and told her she was being charged with terrorism, hate crimes and disorderly conduct. FBI agents were called in, and they questioned her about her ethnicity and her views on the war in Iraq.
With such outrageous behavior, it is no wonder that racial profiling creates fear in targeted populations. It even leads some to put themselves in harm's way rather than call law enforcement authorities in an emergency. We learned at our hearings about a Hindu-Punjabi Indian woman in her mid-60s who put out a fire in her kitchen by herself because she feared calling the fire department and a Pakistani-Muslim woman with a heart condition who said she would not dial 911 if she were having a heart attack.
Racial profiling undermines the safety of our communities by leaving in its wake victims who feel helpless, humiliated, depressed and angry -- contributing to the conditions that give rise to the very violence that the 'war on terror' is intended to combat. Surely the government has made few friends among the 13,000 men and boys who have been deported or are in deportation proceedings after being discriminatorily chosen for enforcement of immigration laws after September 11th.
Various government programs targeting Arab, Muslim and South Asian men and boys in the 'war on terror' have yielded few tangible results, according to the staff report of the September 11th Commission. For example, investigations under the federal Absconder Apprehension Initiative of 6,000 people who were subject to final deportation orders led to 14 cases being referred to the FBI for further investigation relating to possible terrorist links -- and not a single case was prosecuted. No individual scrutinized under the Visas Condor Program, which mandated additional security screening for certain visa applicants from 26 predominantly Muslim countries, has ever had his or her application rejected on the grounds of being a terrorist.
The government's use of racial profiling also blinds law enforcement authorities to potential threats from those who do not fit the profile. Did so-called "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh, a white man who grew up in affluence outside San Francisco, fit the profile?
Or ask Mike German, a veteran FBI agent with expertise in investigating white supremacists and militia groups. He charges that the FBI first ignored and then botched an investigation into information he had received that suspected members of a militia group were plotting to support a major Islamic terrorist organization. As white men, they did not fit the profile either.

Racial profiling also fails in other arenas. During the tragic sniper attacks in Washington two years ago, police officers were looking for an antisocial white male, the standard profile of a serial killer. Indeed, shortly after the arrest of two black men ultimately convicted of these crimes, the police chief's candid comment that "We were looking for a white van with white people, and we ended up with a blue car with black people" raised questions about whether racial profiling inadvertently enabled the snipers to continue their killing spree.
Eliminating the use of profiling would likely make law enforcement more effective in the 'war on terror.' Take the experience of the US Customs Service, which four years ago stopped using race in deciding which people to stop and search and began using a list of suspect behaviors. As Ms. Harris will discuss, the agency's shift to behavior-based profiling techniques increased the rate of successful searches by more than 300 percent.
In 2001, with great fanfare, President Bush pledged to end racial profiling. "It's wrong," he said, "and we will end it in America." Sadly, he has failed to fulfill this promise or to enforce virtually any aspect of his directive to the Justice Department to end profiling practices.
Last July, the president boasted that he was the first president to ban racial profiling in federal law enforcement. That claim simply does not hold up: the federal policy does not cover profiling based on national origin or religion, does not include any enforcement mechanisms, and contains a blanket exception for "national security" and "border integrity" -- a loophole big enough to drive that truck through.
Moreover, state laws are woefully inadequate. Twenty-seven states have no laws banning racial profiling, and only four states ban religious profiling. Half of the 23 states that have racial profiling laws have failed to ensure that these laws are comprehensive or even have a definition of profiling that enables the ban to be enforced effectively.
As we release our report today, Amnesty International is mobilizing its members to urge Congress to take a stand by passing the End Racial Profiling Act of 2004, and we will press state legislators to create effective laws banning racial profiling in their communities. We ask the Bush Administration to finally live up to its promises by asking Congress to pass this or similar legislation and by signing it into law. The US government must send a forceful message against discrimination and abuse of human rights of all its citizens no matter who they are, how they are dressed, or what they believe. The time to end this shameful practice is now. Our very lives may depend upon it. Thank you.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/docum...256F0F0047D8E7

[EdGreene]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

So now "W" is a racist, huh?

You never questioned what he did or why he died like that? At a public (and more than likely, illegal) spectacle before women and young children?

Responsible for all the white man's crimes against the black people?

Dumb as a Dunkin Donut Dubya (and the Republican Party) are certainly responsible for the prevalent attitude of hate and sexism in this country to day. The same racism is alive and well in whites in the South...and the Republican Party.

...certainly
Responsible for lynching blacks as portrayed in that picture.

ZOOOOM>>>>>>>>>>; but then, every sound argument or demonstration (photo) goes over your pointy head, skipping along like a flat rock on a pond: doesn't it?

Real honesty coming out in this thread, eh?

It did with your insensitive, knuckle dragging comment.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by plschwartz

LAN:
I posted that particular picture exactly because it showed the lynching as a social event., where you would take your family. Do you see the daughters in the picture- especially the one on the right smirking. Do you think that has all disappeared. Southern raccism wasn't just riders in the night, extremists but was knit into the social fabric of the old confederacy. What do you think that displaying the confederate flag means?. John Dean had it exactly right -guys in pick-ups flying the confererate flag.

Explain to me what that has to do with this thread?

Why guys like Dubya: What the guys want, what Dubya gives 'em

Especially with the rampant racism among Southern Democrats.

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by EdGreene

You never questioned what he did or why he died like that? At a public (and more than likely, illegal) spectacle before women and young children?

Never questioned?
I thought the post was unrelated to this thread.
"Why guys like Dubya: What the guys want, what Dubya gives 'em"
And I believe that the race bating is simply YET ANOTHER attempt to grossly misinterpret the opinion of the vast majority of Republicans, including the President. And frankly it is getting old. It is no less disingenuous for me to call 100% of the Democrats (elected or otherwise) Communist shills who desire to place the US under the reigns of a Stalin or Mao.
Sure there's still racism in this country. I condemn it everywhere I see it.
And I see a lot of it spewed forth in this thread.

Dumb as a Dunkin Donut Dubya (and the Republican Party) are certainly responsible for the prevalent attitude of hate and sexism in this country to day.

What a bunch of BS!

The same racism is alive and well in whites in the South...and the Republican Party.ZOOOOM>>>>>>>>>>;

So in order to be a racist a person needs to be white and Republican? I think you need to re-examine reality. Brush up on your Martin Luther King Jr. a little. (a man who's opinions I greatly admire) You seem to be judging all white people based on the color of their skin, in addition to their political affiliation.
(Sounds borderline racist to me)

but then, every sound argument or demonstration (photo) goes over your pointy head, skipping along like a flat rock on a pond: doesn't it?It did with your insensitive, knuckle dragging comment.

To be totally honest, as always, I didn't bother reading past the first paragraph or 2 of this thread. It was hardly worth the effort.
You say that the reason Bush appeals to ****es is because of his "John Wayne-esque" bravado, and that that bravado has its basis in racism, and that is why the "whites" are drawn to him. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!

What you're saying is that all Kerry has to do is come out and say, "If elected, I'm gonna pop a cap in those terrorists" in an effort to win the black vote.

If you find that last sentence offensive, GOOD! That was the intent.
Because I find your topic offensive and racist.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!.

[plschwartz]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

Explain to me what that has to do with this thread?

Why guys like Dubya: What the guys want, what Dubya gives 'em

Especially with the rampant racism among Southern Democrats.

The short answer is that Bush tapped into a pre-existent attitude of racial superiority/inferiority held by a significant segment of American society. For whatever reason Bush et al wanted to oust Saddam and make Iraqis "good arabs" (I think this was part of a poorly thought out geopolitical agenda starting with Bush1). Cynically using 9/11 and the attending anxiety (which has no object) he offered Saddam (thus turning anxiety into fear which is easier to live with). One of the halmarks of lynching was that if the mob couldn't find the ....negro they wanted they would exact collective punishment and grab and hang someone else.
The Iraqis were the substitue objects for Osama. Many of the terms of referral Bush used were code words used in hunting and also in lynchings. The lynchings were these social events approved of by the "good people" in society

To please the Mob Roman Emperiors discovered what pleased it - Bread and Circuses. The Bread is financed by the deficit (who cares) and is all the goodies made in China we can suddenly afford at Wal-Marts. As in Roman times the Circuses are bloodsports (remember the deck of cards? 55 Iraqis were loose somewhere in Iraq and the manhunt was on -remember the joy at the bloodsoaked pictures of Saddams sons?) (remember Shock and Awe - treating the bombardment of a capital city as some sort of special firewores show? Baghdad became Warsaw)

That is also why the VN war is still in such play. At that time I believe the southern culture (good and bad) was still a major factor in the Army. And this racial attitude was transferred there to the Vietnamese. Kerry not from that culture was dismayed.I think he understood that you cannot have that attitude and not do great damage to yourself.

Well anyway I could go on for pages but no one would read it. I am sure that thisarguement still needs a lot of refinement but I am satisfied that is basically correct.
And I apologize to Davey who I kind of slammed about all this stuff over the weekend

[LANMaster]

Thank you for the thoughtful answer.

But aren't you stereotyping all of those from the South? Or all Republicans?

This "pre-existent attitude" (of racism?) which you say Bush "tapped into" (by simply having a Southern attitude?) that is held by a significant segment of America (the lower states?)

Come on. Please tell me that I'm wrong in those parenthases, or please don't leave out what you mean to say. I'm reading between the lines and you're not only calling Bush a racist, but anyone who is gullable enough to fall for his "tapping"

If you believe that then say it straight so we can all have a nice laugh and move on.
You seem to be dancing around it, and I (as a Southern Republican who opposes racism fervently) am offended by the insinuation.

Are there white racists? Of course there are. Let's oppose them at every juncture. Let's nail Robert Byrd at the same time we take out Trent Lott. Let's boot the opinions of Jesse Jackson while we evict David Duke from public life.

My point is, lets get rid of ALL the racism.

But to lay the mantle of racist at the feet of George Bush is intellectually dishonest.

[LANMaster]

back in a while