[Mulderator]

I posted this in another thread, but thought it deserved its own thread to make sure people are fully informed.

The following article illustrates why Kerry simply cannot be trusted. He was ranked in 2003 as the No. 1 Senate liberal in 2003 according to the National Journal, yet when he speaks, you'd think you're listening to Arnold Schwarzeneggar or some other socially moderate, fiscal conservative. It is unbelievable to me how liberals can sit and swallow what's coming out of Kerry's mouth now when it is so different from what he has been for 20 years in the Senate. Everyone knows America will not elect a "liberal"--we learned that when Dukakis ran for President (remember his "I'm a card carrying ACLU member" remark?--it was the single most destructive line ever uttered by any Presidential candidate).

Anyway, Kerry is saying exactly what he thinks most of America wants to hear: "I'm tough on terrorism; I won't hesitate to launch pre-emptive strikes; I'm going to lower taxes for middle class Americans, etc.". But most strikingly, he disavows being labeled as a liberal! That's intellectually dishonest, IMO. Alan Combs of Hannity and Combs said the other night, he's proud to call himself a liberal. basset and Rep call themselves liberals proudly. Why won't Kerry?

The answer to that is he is lying in an effort to win the election. He has always been and always will be--a liberal.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...1241-3716r.htm

List says Kerry top Senate liberal

By Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Sen. John Kerry was the "No. 1 Senate liberal in 2003," according to new rankings by the National Journal.
The publication rated all 100 senators' votes on 32 economic issues, 15 social policy issues and 15 foreign policy issues, and found the Massachusetts senator and presidential hopeful more liberal than any of his colleagues.
The magazine noted that Mr. Kerry had the most liberal record three other times in his 20 years in Congress: in 1986, 1988 and 1990.
By contrast in 2003, fellow Massachusetts Sen. Edward M. Kennedy was the 11th most liberal senator, according to the rankings by the weekly, which covers Washington government and Congress.
Mr. Kerry's voting record was less liberal throughout the 1990s, compared to his Senate colleagues. But this past year, he and Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, the man presenting the most serious challenge to Mr. Kerry for the Democratic nomination, were both much more liberal. Mr. Edwards was ranked fourth most liberal.
It was striking that the two men were so similar, the magazine said, "because during the course of their Senate careers, their ratings have often placed them in different wings of their party."
Their high scores may be due, in part, to having missed so many votes while campaigning last year. Of the 62 votes the magazine tracked, Mr. Kerry missed 37 and Mr. Edwards missed 22. Both men usually returned for the most critical party votes, which probably boosted their liberal credentials.
The Republican National Committee (RNC) sent out an e-mail yesterday listing the 62 votes National Journal used in its rankings, with the subject heading, "Label Him What You Want, Kerry Wrong Choice For America."
Later, RNC spokeswoman Christine Iverson said, "John Kerry's record speaks for itself, and we've been saying that all along and will continue to say it."
Mr. Kerry's campaign press office did not return a call for comment.
The National Journal's voting record list included the senator's votes on trade agreements, abortion, Medicare, tax cuts, spending and efforts to end filibusters on confirming some of the most contentious judicial nominees.
Other groups also rate Mr. Kerry as more liberal on the political spectrum, though not the most liberal senator.
The American Conservative Union (ACU) gave him a 13 rating on its conservative scale for 2003, with 100 being the most conservative. His rating was higher than the 10 rating or lower scored by Mr. Kennedy and 13 other Democrats. This was partly because Mr. Kerry missed three votes, which boosted his average.
Mr. Kerry has a lifetime career rating of 5 from the ACU, slightly above the group's lifetime career 3 score for Mr. Kennedy.
The Americans for Democratic Action, a prominent liberal advocacy group, gives Mr. Kerry a lifetime career rating of 92 on a 100-point scale, with 100 being the most liberal. Mr. Kerry's rating is higher than fellow Democratic candidate Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich, Ohio Democrat.

[Wet Chicken]

Too bad for you and your rhetoric that factcheck doesn't even have him listed in the top ten!

Your thread is just more republican smoke and mirrors

How typical

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Wet Chicken

Too bad for you and your rhetoric that factcheck doesn't even have him listed in the top ten!

Your thread is just more republican smoke and mirrors

How typical

How can "factcheck" decide whether Kerry is a "top 10 liberal?" It just checks facts.

[flyeater]

How can "factcheck" decide whether Kerry is a "top 10 liberal?" It just checks facts.

So the idea that Kerry is the top Senate liberal isn't a fact? What's the purpose of this thread?

[linskyjack]

Whats wrong with being liberal? Most Americans are liberal on at least some issues. For instance, the majority of Americans support choice (although to different degrees), equal pay for women, the rich paying more in taxes, social security, medicare, etc. We will see just how liberal America is come Nov 2. If they put Kerry in office then maybe Kerry isn't as liberal as you think, or maybe Americans aren't as conservative as you think.

[flyeater]

Spreading your bet a bit in that last sentance Link

[Mulder_Lite]

Originally Posted by flyeater

So the idea that Kerry is the top Senate liberal isn't a fact? What's the purpose of this thread?

No, it is an opinion. Whether someone is "conservative" or "liberal" is an opinion that can only be made by looking their positions on issue or voting record, which is what was done in this case.

[GoneForNow]

Actually, to be precise, Kerry is a neo-liberal. Don't really think it's an opinion as to Kerry, however.

[juantamad]

Kerry shouldn't be ashamed to be Liberal if that's what he is....you need to fight for what you believe in.Once they bring out his 20 yr voting record , he should be a man and stand up for it.There's no shame in being a liberal. I was leaning towards him but frankly, I'm not so sure now because what I hear from him doesn't compute and goes agianst his voting record.Also ,I have to think of the consequences - Edwards. Now there's a fairly undistinguished carrer in the Senate if I ever saw one.I would have preferred Gephardt - more substance.Plus I have a thing for ambulance chasers.
Come to think of it,Kerry won't win b/c Hillary won't stand for it - that would mean she'll have to wait for 2012.......


jt

[angelize56]

Bush, Kerry Lob Post-Debate Assaults
Thu Oct 14,11:13 PM ET U.S. National - AP
By NEDRA PICKLER AND SCOTT LINDLAW, Associated Press Writers

LAS VEGAS - President Bush criticized Sen. John Kerry as a liberal trying to hide from his own record Thursday as the two men entered the last, post-debate lap of a close race for the White House. The Democratic challenger said his rival "fights, literally, for the privileged few."

"I believe we need a president who will fight for the great middle class and for those who are struggling to join it," Kerry added.

The ubiquitous polls made the race a statistical tie as Bush and his Democratic rival plunged into the final 18 days of campaigning. That marked an improvement in Kerry's national standing over the course of three presidential debates — even though Democratic officials confirmed West Virginia and its five electoral votes have been written off as lost.

And there were veiled hints of concern within the Bush high command as the campaign entered what the president called a "sprint to the finish." Marc Racicot, campaign chairman, told reporters the Democratic challenger had helped himself during the face-to-face encounters. "I think it was temporary," Racicot said.

Democrats and their allies tried to deflect criticism over Kerry's debate-night reference to Vice President Dick Chene's gay daughter, Mary. "A cheap and tawdry political trick," Mary's mother, Lynne Cheney, said of the remark.

Kerry and Bush both campaigned in Nevada during the day, a state with five electoral votes and one of roughly a dozen still competitive in the final days of the race.

The four-term Massachusetts senator unleashed an attack on the Medicare legislation that Bush signed into law last year, saying it was "full of empty promises and special interest giveaways."

Kerry also faulted the prescription drug card benefit that took effect this year, a transition to a full overhaul of the Medicare program that he said does little to lower the cost of drugs.

"The truth is that after doing nothing to really lower the cost of prescription drugs for you, the president is now telling you that he solved the problem. Right. And those weapons of mass destruction are going to be found any day now," he said with sarcasm.

Bush's after-debate message was simple — Kerry is a liberal who will raise taxes, increase government spending, stick with the status quo on Social Security, and give other countries too much say in the use of U.S. troops overseas.

"My opponent wants to move in the direction of government-run health care," the president added. "I believe health decisions ought to be made by doctors and patients, not officials in Washington, D.C."

Attempting to pin the liberal label on Kerry, he added, "Now he dismisses that as a label. Must have seen it differently when he said to a newspaper, 'I'm a liberal and proud of it.'"

Apart from the public rhetoric, the two sides readied their campaign endgame strategies.

For Bush, according to White House officials, that will mean stepping up his effort to portray Kerry as a flip-flopper, a liberal with few accomplishments in the Senate. At the same time, officials said the president will play to one of his campaign strengths — his wartime leadership. He intends to travel to New Jersey next week to deliver what aides call a major address on terrorism.

The state hasn't voted for a Republican since the presidential election in 1988, but New Jersey is just across the river from New York City and it suffered a significant loss of life when terrorists struck the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001.

Kerry, having performed well in the debates, hopes to use the final 2 1/2 weeks of the campaign to persuade voters that he is a safe replacement for Bush in an era of terrorism. The effort will include a series of speeches designed to cast the senator as the champion of the middle class — as he said during the day — and depict Bush as the defender of the elite.

Final figures showed that 51 million Americans watched at least part of the final presidential debate.

While the candidates were ready to move on, one controversy simmered. Both Cheney and his wife criticized Kerry for having referred to Mary Cheney's sexuality during the debate.

"You saw a man who will do and say anything to get elected," the vice president said in Fort Myers, Fla. "And I am not just speaking as a father here, although I am a pretty angry father."

Kerry's allies defended the remark.

"In bringing up Mary Cheney, Kerry expressed the human side of this issue, an issue that Bush has worked so hard to politicize to his advantage at the cost of families," said Alice Whitman Leeds of Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays.

The issue flared after the two rivals were asked during the debate to say whether they viewed homosexuality as a choice.

Bush said he didn't know.

"We're all God's children," Kerry said. "And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice."

Elizabeth Edwards, wife of Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards, stepped into the dispute.

Speaking of Mrs. Cheney, she said, "She's overreacted to this and treated it as if it's shameful to have this discussion. ... I think that it indicates a certain amount of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences."

Secretary of State Colin Powell, again stepping into the presidential debate, questioned Kerry's assertions that if he were president the allies would be more amenable to cooperating with the United States in Iraq.

"I am not sure he can back them up," Powell said on the Fox News Channel.

[Mulder_Lite]

Originally Posted by angelize56

President Bush criticized Sen. John Kerry as a liberal trying to hide from his own record Thursday as the two men entered the last, post-debate lap of a close race for the White House[/b]

Well, he knows America will NOT elect a liberal, yet he refuses to let people see the real John Kerry. What we see in the debates is a facade, a lie--the ultimate flip-flop!

[LANMaster]

Ted Kennedy is the CONSERVATIVE Senator of Massachussetts.

[combsdon]

Originally Posted by Mulder_Lite

What we see in the debates is a facade, a lie--the ultimate flip-flop!

................must be contagious as Bush was doing his share..........

[marcus77]

http://www.factcheck.org/article186.html

It is a fact as the ad states that the National Journal, a politically neutral periodical focusing on policy-makers in Washington, rated Kerry the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate based on his voting record in 2003. In fact, it was the fourth time in his Senate career that Kerry has been rated as having the most liberal voting record. The three other "most liberal" ratings came during his first Senate term, in 1986, 1988, and 1990. The National Journal has been rating members of both House and Senate on a liberal-conservative scale since 1981.

It's true that Kerry was absent (due to his presidential campaign schedule) for 37 of the 62 votes that the National Journal selected for their analysis. However, the publication said those missed votes were all in the areas of social policy and foreign policy, where Kerry "consistently took the liberal view within the Senate." On economic policy votes, the National Journal said Kerry earned a "perfect liberal score" last year.
Summing up: Overall, this ad rates fairly high for accuracy, in contrast with other Bush ads we've criticized as misleading. But it could lead voters to confuse editorial opinions with statements of fact.

[Mulder_Lite]

Originally Posted by marcus77

Summing up: Overall, this ad rates fairly high for accuracy, in contrast with other Bush ads we've criticized as misleading. But it could lead voters to confuse editorial opinions with statements of fact.

That's ridiculous--if it is high for accuracy, then where it the problem?. Whether someone is "liberal" or not is an opinion--no one should confuse it with "fact". That's why they say they "rated" him as very liberal. There is nothing misleading about it. What is misleading is Kerry not owning up to his liberal voting record and trying to be something he is not in order to get elected!