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Flu Vaccine Shortage


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DNeurococo's Avatar
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18-Oct-2004, 12:13 PM #1
Flu Vaccine Shortage
I thought this topic deserved a thread of its own!

In a nutshell, I think the recent shortage of Flu Vaccine shows the absurdity of NOT having a single payer national health care system - - as do most civilized nations with electricity and running water.

Bush said in the debate that the shortage was the fault of trial lawyers and the press has run stories talking about how it is "not profitable" to manufacture vaccine.

But, I think the real problem lies in having our health care depend upon the tender mercies of corporations whose only concern is making a profit.

These companies (who, by the way, make billions in pure profit) are currently using their resources to develop new and better erection drugs, while old folks die waiting in line to get scarce flu shots.

Lord knows, there's got to be a better way!
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18-Oct-2004, 12:17 PM #2
Actually, the problem goes back to Hillary regulating vaccines to make sure every child and senior would have one. They told companies that they would only be paid x amount for the vaccine--companies decided to just stop making it as they weren't making any profit.

You think its bad now--let the government be in control of it like you want and this will be how it is every year. Problem is no matter how many times you liberals are shown examples like this as to how "price controls" screw up the market and actually cause more problems, you still scream for government control of healthcare like its the magic answer!

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Daily...rtDuePrice.htm

Quote:
Flu Vaccine Shortage is Due to Low Price Not Manufacturing Problems

Widespread national reports of a flu vaccine shortage due to manufacturing problems and plant shutdowns are simply not true. The real cause of the shortage is the flu vaccine's low price.

The whole process of producing, selling and distributing flu vaccine is complicated. It not only involves manufacturers and distributors, but the World Health Organization who annually determines the formula. Manufacturers must wait for their recommendation to complete production of the vaccine. Most contracts for fall delivery of the vaccine are made early in the spring, long before the recommendation for the final strain has been announced.

Manufacturers begin producing vaccine in the winter with a limited amount of marketing and production data. At prices ranging from $2.00 to $3.00 per dose, quantities of vaccines that are not sold or returned at the end of the season can turn a manufacturer's annual profit into a loss. As a result each manufacturer produces only what they know they can sell.

Any negative variation in the actual production of the flu vaccine results in a market shortage during the critical months of September and October. By the time manufacturers learn their original projections are off, it is difficult to quickly make up the shortage. Chicken eggs are a critical component of the vaccine, and it is hard to make chickens lay several hundred thousand eggs on short notice. ****AS I THOUGHT--WET CHICKEN IS THE PROBLEM!!! *****

No Financial Incentive for Manufacturers

There are also few financial incentives for manufacturers to produce more vaccine Diverting resources away from vaccines with guaranteed sales of $7.00 to $60.00 per dose weakens their bottom line .

Two of the largest flu vaccine manufacturers have limited capacity and more profitable products to produce. Demand for Aventis Pasteur's Menomune, a vaccine for meningococcal meningitis, has increased significantly since the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) recommended that college freshman residing in dorms consider vaccination as a strategy for reducing health risk. American Home Products has experienced a similar increase in demand for Prevnar , a new vaccine recently added to the infant immunization schedule for protection against streptococcus pneumoniae. Both vaccines sell for between $40 and $60 per dose.


The Human Cost

The impact of low pricing and resulting shortage of flu vaccine affects millions of Americans who need to be vaccinated. Vaccination rates are reported to have declined this year. The high-risk population, primarily senior citizens, has found it difficult to locate the vaccine. Many of these individuals who are traditionally vaccinated in their physician's office are now forced to wait in long lines at grocery stores and public health clinics, causing some to abandon their efforts.

While healthy adults want to be vaccinated, they are being denied that opportunity because the vaccine is only available to high-risk patients. Even if vaccine becomes available in late December and January, it is likely that immunization rates will not return to their historical norms. Many people will have already given up trying to get the vaccine or will surmise that it is too late to obtain full protection.

The vaccine shortage creates a variety of public health problems.

In high-risk populations, the cost of flu is extreme. According to the CDC, flu results in 100,000 hospitalizations and 20,000 deaths per year. Dr. Steven Mostow of the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center predicts the shortage will contribute an additional 20,000 flu related deaths this year.
In healthy adults, the cost of flu is significant. Dr. Kristin Nichol, chief of medicine service at Minneapolis Veterans Administration Medical Center, reported in a 1995 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine that the net benefit of vaccinating a healthy adult was $47.00 per individual. A primary benefit of flu vaccination for consumers and employers is reduction in lost workplace productivity.
Flu is a primary contributing factor to otitis media. Annually otitis media is responsible for more than 31 million visits to doctor's offices. One-third of those visits are to pediatrician's offices. Treatment costs are in the 3 to 4 billion dollar range. According to a number of studies, vaccination of children reduces the transmission of the flu virus to adults residing in the same household.
There are also a number of indirect effects of low vaccination rates that have a direct impact on health care services. The American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP) anticipates a significant increase in the use of emergency rooms this winter, while hospitals are anticipating increased admissions and a shortage of beds.

Allocation problems for manufacturers, distributors, and health care providers have increased. Current channels of distribution and sale do not lend themselves to neat segmentation of the high-risk population. Front line healthcare providers are faced with difficult allocation decisions, and increase their liability exposure.

The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), a committee that advises the CDC on matters of vaccine policy, will now be much more reluctant to expand flu vaccination recommendations because of manufacturers' repeated inability to supply the U.S. market during the September to October time period. Populations that are negatively impacted by lack of these recommendations include healthy adults ages 50 to 65 and infants and young children.

Other issues that have arisen with the shortage include:

A rise in black market activity , where entrepreneurs with little concern for safe vaccine handling enter the market to capitalize on arbitrage opportunities.
Less time for healthcare providers to spend on patient care. Providers spend a great deal of time trying to find available vaccine, while managing the fallout from canceled clinics. Additionally, they must spend time addressing concerned patients about the shortage and how it will affect their health.
Physicians often use the flu vaccine office visit to perform tests, talk about preventive health measures, and catch other illnesses in their early stages. No flu shot, no office visit.
Vaccine shortages create an atmosphere of panic and chaos. There have been reports of telephone con artists soliciting phony donations to buy high-priced flu vaccines for the elderly.

Lessons Learned

The current influenza vaccine shortage is replete with lessons for pharmaceutical companies, the pharmaceutical industry, policy-makers, payers, healthcare providers, and consumers.

Pharmaceutical Companies

Pharmaceutical companies are facing increased pricing challenges. For obvious reasons, pharmaceutical companies are cautious about raising prices. In some cases, their hesitancy may cause more harm than good. Companies with mature products that haven't kept pace with increased marketplace valuation, increased production costs, or increasing costs of FDA compliance face major challenges. Companies need to

increase reviews to ensure pricing is appropriate for market conditions
reconsider standard "rate of inflation" price increases
keep all parties informed on reasons for large one-time adjustments when they occur.
This year's vaccine shortage should serve as a wake-up call to pharmaceutical companies about the wisdom of using low prices to score public relations points. Although low pricing is appropriate in some cases, great care should be taken to ensure that it does not reduce customer satisfaction. If this happens, the company's reputation will suffer.

Tangible illustrations of the negative impact of low pricing (i.e. pharmaceutical price regulation) are excellent complements to more abstract approaches. Key constituents may identify with the flu vaccine shortage more readily than they identify with futuristic drugs that won't come to market because of pricing and R&D cuts.

Policymakers and Payers

Pharmaceutical price regulation, a seductive mechanism for improving the health of seniors, can actually end up doing more harm than good. Consider with caution. Low pricing does reduce direct expenditures on pharmaceuticals. As the influenza vaccine shortage illustrates, in some cases it increases total system costs and the costs of many industry stakeholders. Both public and private payers need to fully understand the relative costs and benefits of low pricing and price regulation.
These indirect costs, because they are difficult to quantify, are often not captured in boilerplate pharmacoeconomic studies of societal benefits and costs currently in vogue in public health circles. That does not mean that they do not exist, are not real, and are not at times large.
Recently, employers have taken the lead on demanding effective management of health care costs, and consequently a great deal of inefficiency has been eliminated. Indiscriminate cost control, particularly price regulation, often ends up increasing employer costs. Do employers want employee sick time going through the roof this year, while employees rack up significant costs staying at the local hospital or visiting the emergency room?

Healthcare Providers and Consumers

Low pricing can impact healthcare providers in ways they never imagined. It can force them to make difficult allocation decisions, strain their already scarce resources, and take them away from quality patient care.

Low pricing and pharmaceutical price regulation sound great, especially to senior citizens and baby boomers facing the prospect of ever-increasing out-of-pocket drug expenses on fixed incomes. Cases like this year's influenza vaccine shortage might give one pause. Would consumers rather pay a little more for the vaccine and be sure to have it, or be flat on their back during their week-long cruise in the Bahamas? Even worse, canceling the cruise to attend to a hospitalized family member?
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Last edited by Mulderator : 18-Oct-2004 12:30 PM.
DNeurococo's Avatar
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18-Oct-2004, 12:41 PM #3
Well, if you are stuck in the mindset that there must be profit to produce a product, then I guess you will conclude that it is O.K. for people to die waiting in line for flu shots... the heck with them old people - - there's more money to be made in erection drugs.

I think that sort of thinking is unconscionable. People ought to get needed medicine whether our corporate masters think it is profitable or not.

And if single payer systems, such as Canada has, are such a mess...

then WHY did George Bush say in the last debate that he hoped he could get some help on this shortage from Canada?
alex_holker's Avatar
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18-Oct-2004, 12:49 PM #4
If a company chooses to produce the flu vaccine, why should they be punished for it?

Alex
linskyjack's Avatar
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18-Oct-2004, 01:07 PM #5
Its all about profits--Mulder has made this clear with most of his posts. The fact remains that we have been gouged by the drug companies for years now---I suspect that margins are huge on most of their products. Drug companies are amazing money making machines. So even if the guy who wrote this is right (and he is a "drug company" consultant and former drug company executive) I think that on matters of public health, government needs to step in and mitigate against greed. Watching hundreds of seniors waiting on line in a gym for the few vaccines available is shameful.


Here is a list of margins----------


This is very interesting. The drug companies have been vilified for over-charging for their medications and trying to explain that R&D and the years waiting for FDA approval have added to the cost of the drugs Now read this and see where the real costs are added. Hmmm.

Please read this, it's very informative.

Did you ever wonder how much it costs a drug company for the active ingredient in prescription medications?

Some people think it must cost a lot, since many drugs sell for more than $2.00 per tablet. We did a search of offshore chemical synthesizers that supply the active ingredients found in drugs approved by the FDA. As we have revealed in past issues of Life Extension, a significant percentage of drugs sold in the United States contain active ingredients made in other countries.

In our independent investigation of how much profit drug companies really make, we obtained the actual price of active ingredients used in some of the most popular drugs sold in America. The chart below speaks for itself. This is based on 100 pills.
Drug Company Profit Margins
BRAND

STRENGTH

WE PAY

COST

Brand Strength We Pay Profit Margin

Celebrex 100 mg $130.27 21,712%
Claritin 10 mg $215.17 30,306%
Keflex 250 mg $157.39 8,372%
Lipitor 20 mg $272.37 4,696%
Norvasc 10 mg $188.29 134,493%
Paxil 20 mg $220.27 2,898%
Prevacid 30 mg $44.77 34,136%
Prilosec 20 mg $360.97 69,417%
Prozac 20 mg $247.47 224,973%
Tenormin 50 mg $104.47 80,362%
Vasotec 10 mg $102.37 51,185%
Xanax 1mg $136.79 569,958%
Zestril 20 mg $89.89 2,809%
Zithromax 00mg $1,482.19 7,892%
Zocor 40mg $350.27 4,059%
Zoloft 50mg $206.87 11,821%

Since the cost of prescription drugs is so outrageous, I thought everyone I knew should know about this. Please read the following and pass it on.

It pays to shop around. This helps to solve the mystery as to why they can afford to put a Walgreens on every corner...

On Monday night, Steve Wilson, an investigative reporter for channel 7 News in Detroit, did a story on generic drug price gouging by pharmacies. He found in his investigation, that some of these generic drugs were marked up as much as 3,000% or more. Yes, that's not a typo.... three thousand percent!

So often, we blame the drug companies for the high cost of drugs, and usually rightfully so. But in this case, the fault clearly lies with the pharmacies themselves. For example, if you had to buy a prescription drug, and bought the name brand, you might pay $100 for 100 pills. The pharmacist might tell you that if you get the generic equivalent, they would only cost $80, making you think you are "saving" $20. What the pharmacist is not telling you is that those 100 generic pills may have only cost him $10!

At the end of the report, one of the anchors asked Mr. Wilson whether or not there were any pharmacies that did not adhere to this practice, and he said that Costco consistently charged little over their cost for the generic drugs.

I went to the Costco site, where you can look up any drug, and get its online price. It says that the in-store prices are consistent with the online prices. I was appalled. Just to give you one example from my own experience, I had to use the drug, Compazine, which helps prevent nausea in chemo patients. I used the generic equivalent, which cost $54.99 for 60 pills at CVS. I checked the price at Costco, and I could have bought 100 pills for $19.89. For 145 of my pain pills, I paid $72.57. I could have got 150 at Costco for $28.08. I would like to mention, that although Costco is a "membership" type store, you do NOT have to be a member to buy prescriptions there, as it is a federally regulated substance. You just tell them at the door that you wish to use the pharmacy, and they will let you in.
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18-Oct-2004, 01:08 PM #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_holker
If a company chooses to produce the flu vaccine, why should they be punished for it?

Alex
I felt the same way about alimony and child support! However, it was a requirement (whether court ordered or not) to support children I had conceived. If a company produces an untainted vaccine, there is a very small chance they will be punished for it. Yes, there may be a few deaths regardless of the purity, and that's why we have a judicial system to handle the lawsuits that may arise. The same applies to all products manufactured for consumption by the general public - from cars to Zippo lighters and everything in between. It's whats called the cost of doing business. Law suits have little, if anything, to do with whether a drug company manufacturers anything - can you say Vioxx??
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18-Oct-2004, 01:09 PM #7
Wino--did you see my post on drug company profits---I think they can take a hit on the flu vaccine. Maybe Bush will bring us a faith based medical plan during his second term
alex_holker's Avatar
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18-Oct-2004, 01:11 PM #8
I mean that these companies will recieve less profits if they produce the vaccine for the offered price, than if they didn't produce it. So why they be expected to do this?

Alex
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18-Oct-2004, 01:14 PM #9
Who wants their medical treatment to be handled by the same people who run the DMV?

Anyone?

Anyone?
linskyjack's Avatar
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18-Oct-2004, 01:15 PM #10
Alex, they are expected to do this because their product is important to the well-being of the population. I mean a loss leader once in awhile wouldn't kill them. Did you take the time to see what their margins are on most drugs? Do you undestand how much money they make? There comes a point where public health trumps profits. This is one of them.
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18-Oct-2004, 01:23 PM #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_holker
I mean that these companies will recieve less profits if they produce the vaccine for the offered price, than if they didn't produce it. So why they be expected to do this?

Alex
Compassion, may be? The right thing to do, may be? Because they can afford it and would be a goodwill gesture, may be? They care about people, just may be? These companies make astronomical profits - cutting the price on a vaccine is pocket change to them. What would the world be like now had Jonas Salk been a tightwad scrooge and hated children? The drug manufacturers are obscenely arrogant and selfish - much like the current administration that runs this country - compassionate conservatism my ***!!
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BUSH IRAQ WAR CASUALTIES AS OF: OCTOBER 03, 2008 = 4,178
BUSH NIGHTMARE ENDS IN 2.8 MONTHS
in vino veritas
"What you see is news, what you know is background, what you feel is opinion." Lester Markel
"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names." JFK
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw."
"Le sens commun n'est pas si commun." - Voltaire
"Religion is a temper, not a pursuit." - Martineau
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18-Oct-2004, 01:26 PM #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by linskyjack
Wino--did you see my post on drug company profits---I think they can take a hit on the flu vaccine. Maybe Bush will bring us a faith based medical plan during his second term
Saw it and already knew. Think I'll pass on the praying to get well and do not expect Bush to have a second term to wreak more havoc on the world.
alex_holker's Avatar
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18-Oct-2004, 01:26 PM #13
Perhaps you don't get it, so I'll put it simply:

Company A chooses not to produce *any* vaccine at all, because they know you want to make them produce massive quantities and lose money. You can't touch them, and you know it.

Company B chooses to produce a small amount of vaccine, the amount they know they can sell. You think they should make massive quantities and lose money, whether they like it or not.

Who is better off? Why would *any* drug company choose to be in the second category?

Wino: Do you think that a CEO who chose to significantly reduce his company's yearly profit, would still be employed next year?

Alex
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Last edited by alex_holker : 18-Oct-2004 01:40 PM.
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18-Oct-2004, 01:40 PM #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulder
Actually, the problem goes back to Hillary regulating vaccines to make sure every child and senior would have one. They told companies that they would only be paid x amount for the vaccine--companies decided to just stop making it as they weren't making any profit.

You think its bad now--let the government be in control of it like you want and this will be how it is every year. Problem is no matter how many times you liberals are shown examples like this as to how "price controls" screw up the market and actually cause more problems, you still scream for government control of healthcare like its the magic answer!

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Daily...rtDuePrice.htm

great post, Chris.
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linskyjack's Avatar
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18-Oct-2004, 01:40 PM #15
Where did you get that audience--very cool!
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