[linskyjack]

Now I dont want to be to political here but isn't it interesting that in the last ten years, we have developed what I call two dimensions of truth. In other words, Mulder will quote his sources, I will quote my sources, Kerry has his and Bush has his---Often the statistics contridict each other etc. So the question becomes, how does the typical citizen get the truth---and does truth exist. How does one go about making the decisions that every citizen must make in order for a democracy to function? I think that the FF's believed that the only hope for a democracy was a well educated citizenery that could discern the truth and vote accordingly. When half the high school students in America can't tell you who the Vice-President is, then things are not good. By all standards, America is in the process of dumbing down and this doesn't bode well for the survival of our system.

Let me give you an example. Today, I was having my hair cut, and the lady asked me who I was voting for. Well I said I was voting for Kerry. She said she was voting for Bush. I asked her what she didn't like about Kerry--she responded "well his face is wierd and I dont think he ever was in Vietnam" Now I am sure that the wingers in here can give me similar examples of experiences they have had with idiots who are voting for Kerry. I use to think that these morons were the minority but I am beginning to think that many so-called educated Americans are just as dumb, or should I say, confused. They don't know what and if there is a truth.

[WarC]

Ignorance is a disease. It's gotten to the point where "politics" is a bad word in American society. It's good form in some circles to know as little about your government and the people running it as possible. The deceptive commercials don't help, either. I hear wild accusations about Bush in particular, everything from his supposed inevitable universal draft to his plans to take over the world. Silliness.

[linskyjack]

I agree with you--but I'm trying to get to the essence of truth. What is the truth----you mentioned rumors that Bush is trying to take over the world---Lets take that one for example: If you read Wolfowitz and Pearle et al, and I doubt very many Americans have, you will read about the extension of American ideals to all parts of the world. The Iraqi adventure is a perfect example. Wolofowitz is very clear. He claims that by getting Hussein, the US could create a bastion of democracy and then export it to other countries in the region. Now some of the more shrill voices might say, well, isn't that the same as taking over the world--I would say no, but would add that this kind of geo-political strategy might give the perception that our administrations intent was conquest and American hegemony.

You probably disagree and support the war in Iraq---You think that Hussein was a clear and present danger and that if he hadn't already, he would soon sell weapons off to the terrorists. You might even believe in Wolfowitz's geo-political theory and think that we can export our system to other nations of the world. My point is that you have your reality--I have mine---are we both right? Am I wrong? Are you wrong? Is there a truth to be gleaned from Iraq? etc.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

I asked her what she didn't like about Kerry--she responded "well his face is wierd"

How is that not the truth?

On a side note, my wife thinks the same thing--she thinks his facial expressions are "wierd". I think its got to to with the fact he has such a long face that when he makes certain faces, they are exagerated due to the length of his face.

[angelize56]

I too think he has a strange looking face! But who'd be shallow enough not to vote for a candidate based on looks! Now Edwards looks.......

[linskyjack]

You see--I can never have a serious discussion with Mulder---

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

You see--I can never have a serious discussion with Mulder---

When you write something I can take seriously, we will!

[Ciberblade]

Sadly it's all too true. I was talking with people today...they were all about the politics (thought I would fit right in) then I realized that they only knew what they heard about on the news. When I started asking them who they favored for the Senate/Congress both State and Federal ... they didn't even know who the candidates were. Even worse, they didn't seem to care!

What we mostly deal with is likeness to the truth...for it can be manipulated by both sides...and for that I have a sig.

[Raeli]

The founding fathers never intended for there to be universal suffrage among US citizens. They believed that uninformed and disinterested people had no business casting votes.

[Davey7549]

Actually voting decisions by many have not been through knowing both sides of issues or from being well informed of who is running.
Just as we do in real life many people have first impressions of candidates and those are lasting. They also place allot of credence in what Uncle Joe thinks. Most do not wish to get fully involved into the political BS of nowadays.
I visit many customers a day and seldom bring up who their favorite candidate is. However I would say 8 out of 10 bring it up.
Example....... One person in particular who loves to talk said he was voting for Kerry because of what he sees in the paper. Did not spend to much time discussing politics but that shows you how the newspaper still carries an influence on peoples decisions. To bad many reporters and newspapers are partisan and do not allow the people to decide from both sides of the facts. The funny part of this is the whole decision he made was based on a Liberal leaning newspaper but while I was there he had Cable Fox News on!

Dave

[Knotbored]

I find this message thread very interesting and true. There is a dumbing down of all ages in the USA and I am curious who/what is causing it and who/what benefits from it. The network and cable newscasts don't even attempt to give news facts but try to give equal sides even to moral issues-there seems to be no right or wrong left -only opinions and grey areas.
Debates arent debates, facts are misstated by both sides, teachers aren't allowed to debate current civics problems, moral issues aren't discussed in high school to avoid embarassing the several single moms in each class-it seems to go on and on.

[Fidelista]

Who benefits by it {dumbing} is an interesting question. It is not you or Fidelista!!!.
Whenever somebody loses something---someone gains. The elite, however you want to classify them, are not losing anything from the dumbing of the mass, its a blank check in their pocket.>f

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by Raeli

The founding fathers never intended for there to be universal suffrage among US citizens. They believed that uninformed and disinterested people had no business casting votes.

A while back I suggested that all voters should be asked to identify who was running for president and the party they represent. I was pillared by our little community here as being anti-American and against truth, justice and the American way. Thomas Jefferson, a man of vision, called it right.

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

Who benefits by it {dumbing} is an interesting question. It is not you or Fidelista!!!.
Whenever somebody loses something---someone gains. The elite, however you want to classify them, are not losing anything from the dumbing of the mass, its a blank check in their pocket.>f

Do not equate money with intelligence. Some of the absolutely dumbest people I've met had more money then humanly possible to spend in a lifetime. By the same token I've some truly brilliant people who didn't have two nickels to rub together.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by gbrumb

Do not equate money with intelligence. Some of the absolutely dumbest people I've met had more money then humanly possible to spend in a lifetime. By the same token I've some truly brilliant people who didn't have two nickels to rub together.

Hello gb. You are of course correct, I have observed the same. We agree so you must be correct! lol!. There are many wealthy who have shown understanding of the well being of mass being a good thing for all.
What my meaning is, is that the rich and powerful make the rules---make the laws and generally maniuplate the lesser to their advantage. Generally speaking, the most wealthy--Corporate leaders ---advantaged , so to speak, are not dumb, and are more informed of what benefits them, than what I would call, rank and file. I think the common man is more in need of leadership---for their benefit.
I believe that if the common --lower class , allows, the wealthy ---corporates--ect will exploit.
Point?---the dumbing mentioned, may in fact benefit some.>f