[Chicon]

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/stor...342101,00.html

Originally Posted by Jon Henley, Wednesday November 3, 2004 The Guardian

Controversial Dutch film director shot dead in street

Jon Henley
Wednesday November 3, 2004
The Guardian

Theo van Gogh, the Dutch artist's great grand-nephew and a provocative filmmaker, was shot dead in a street in Amsterdam yesterday, police said, apparently because of a film he made about Islamic violence against women.
Van Gogh, 47, was stabbed and then shot several times by a man who witnesses said arrived on a bicycle as the film-maker was getting out of his car in the Linnaeusstraat, in the east of the city, at 8.45am, a police spokeswoman, Elly Florax, said. He was dead by the time ambulances arrived.

The suspected killer, a 26-year-old man with dual Dutch and Moroccan nationality, fled into the nearby Oosterpark and was later arrested after a gunfight with police that left an officer and a bystander wounded. The man was last night under police guard in hospital, being treated for gunshot wounds to the leg.

The Dutch justice minister, Piet Hein Donner, said the suspect "acted out of radical Islamic fundamentalist convictions", and added that he had contacts with a group under surveillance by the Dutch secret service, AP reported.

As the Dutch prime minister, Jan Peter Balkenende, appealed for calm, more than 10,000 people poured into Amsterdam's central square in an emotional demonstration of support for Van Gogh and against violence.

"We won't gather for a moment of silence, but to say loud and clear: freedom of expression is dear to us, and it must continue," the city's mayor, Job Cohen, said.

The Amsterdam public prosecutor said the suspect had left a letter on Van Gogh's body, but declined to reveal its content until technical and forensic tests had been completed.

Van Gogh had recently drawn fierce criticism and received death threats for his latest fictional drama, Submission, in which a Muslim woman is forced into an arranged marriage, abused by her husband, raped by her uncle and then brutally punished for adultery.

The film, shown on Dutch television, was scripted by Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee given Dutch citizenship after fleeing an arranged marriage 12 years ago. Now a rightwing MP, Ms Hirsi Ali has renounced her faith for its treatment of women and offended many Muslim groups.

In the Netherlands there are around 1 million Muslims in a population of 16 million. Immigration, integration and Islam are all emotive issues.

Mr Balkenende said: "Nothing is known about the motive. The facts must first be carefully weighed. Let's allow the investigators to do their jobs."

He praised Van Gogh as a proponent of free speech who had "outspoken opinions", but said it would be "unacceptable if a difference of opinion led to this brutal murder".

Born in Wassenaar, a suburb of The Hague, Van Gogh - who throughout his life courted controversy with ill-concealed joy - arrived in Amsterdam at the age of 17 to attend film school, but the two shorts he submitted were rejected and he was advised to seek psychiatric help. None the less, in 25 years he made 10 original and intelligent feature-length films.

Van Gogh was employed at one time or another by every leading Dutch newspaper and magazine; almost all fired him for offending their readers' sensibilities. But in the course of several hundred TV shows, Van Gogh also showed himself to be a sensitive and self-effacing interviewer.

"Two people inhabited him," his actor friend Cas Enklar said. "A courteous and adorable gentleman, and a devil who liked nothing better than making enemies."

Van Gogh's last film, about the life of the gay anti-immigration populist Pim Fortuyn, who was assassinated in 2002, was due to have its premiere in January.

[Cédric]

Another case of pathetic stupidity Alas

[moebius]

the world has lost yet another great man. my respects

[Cédric]

Originally Posted by Möbiús

the world has lost yet another great man. my respects

[NightLord]

A warrior for freedom has been murdered.

Theo was one of a kind, and very much needed in this world that is being infected with bigotry, religion-madness and hate.

/NL

[Squile]

Originally Posted by Chicon

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/stor...342101,00.html

As I'm Dutch person here is my perspective to this sad act also i would like to pay my Condescends to his family:

Well here it goes

I come from Amsterdam and also used to live most of my life there.
Killing Theo van Gogh is a serious act of man slaughter.

I always had a feeling that something would happen to him but now it did,
well there is no turning back

Don't get me wrong

Theo van Gogh was a man who had no limits in showing respect towards other religions

The movie he directed explains the "main" reasons he has been murdered.
and let me tell this , what he showed on screen was very disturbing in the eyes of the people and especially the Muslims.This continued building hatred towards him and also the way he showed it to the audience.

Let me inform you one of the scene of the movie:

It shows Muslims woman's getting raped and praying naked and accepting these Malicious acts ,no one would right?

Furthermore things i cant even describe

This certainly did not mean it was right to kill him but in contrary let him humiliate himself for his acts or taken to court where justice is made

For truly justice prevails

[MSM Hobbes]

I am not aware of this man, nor his work, especially this film, until now. However, based upon the little I've been able to find, itsounds that he was indeed a tolerant, open-minded, and talented person. Very sad that such has transpired... Shame that religion drives some people to hate and to even kill. My sympathies to his family, friends, fans. Another similar article is here: http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=218066

[moebius]

Originally Posted by Squile

As I'm Dutch person here is my perspective to this sad act also i would like to pay my Condescends to his family:

Well here it goes

I come from Amsterdam and also used to live most of my life there.
Killing Theo van Gogh is a serious act of man slaughter.

I always had a feeling that something would happen to him but now it did,
well there is no turning back

Don't get me wrong

Theo van Gogh was a man who had no limits in showing respect towards other religions

The movie he directed explains the "main" reasons he has been murdered.
and let me tell this , what he showed on screen was very disturbing in the eyes of the people and especially the Muslims.This continued building hatred towards him and also the way he showed it to the audience.

Let me inform you one of the scene of the movie:

It shows Muslims woman's getting raped and praying naked and accepting these Malicious acts ,no one would right?

Furthermore things i cant even describe

This certainly did not mean it was right to kill him but in contrary let him humiliate himself for his acts or taken to court where justice is made

For truly justice prevails

i hope you know the real islam isnt like that...

[LittleNipper]

Is this what is known as a "LATER TERM ABORTION"?

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by LittleNipper

Is this what is known as a "LATER TERM ABORTION"?

That's an odd statement LN

What do you mean?

[NightLord]

Originally Posted by Squile

Theo van Gogh was a man who had no limits in showing respect towards other religions

I suppose you mean that the other way round, because the way he talked about (and generalized) Islam was downright offensive, e.g. he cosistently referred to muslims as goat-F-ers.

The politician he made that movie "Submission" with, Ms. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, is brought up in an Islamic country herself (Somalia) and she knew like no other how some of those nut cases are offended when the "Holy Qur'an" is touched.
They showed naked women with supposedly female-unfriendly text on their bodies, reciting the Qur'an while being whipped and raped and what not.
She definitely should have known better than to do this! On the other hand, offence is her weapon of choice as well, just like Van Gogh.

Don't get me wrong because the kind of muslims that have such a short fuse that they are offended when people criticize a dåmn book to such an extent that they physically attack and kill are to be considered totally unfit to live in a society like ours, more so I consider them to be a significant danger: the US have already tasted what it is to be a target for them, and I think we will be shown sooner than we would like and that is a disturbing prospect.

Like Möbiús said, the real Islam preaches tolerance and peace, but the kind of people that we're dealing with here sure don't want us to know that...


/NL

[NightLord]

Originally Posted by LittleNipper

Is this what is known as a "LATER TERM ABORTION"?

Are you crazy dude? What a lame post....

[LittleNipper]

Originally Posted by Stoner

That's an odd statement LN

What do you mean?

I was making a moral/political statement. The Netherlands is an open society, I just thought that perhaps they descended another rung on the ladder. Kind of thinking out loud-----nothing more.

[MSM Hobbes]

Originally Posted by NightLord

...snip...

Like Möbiús said, the real Islam preaches tolerance and peace, but the kind of people that we're dealing with here sure don't want us to know that...

/NL

Have you seen the thread http://forums.techguy.org/showthread...8&page=1&pp=15 where there are some questions regarding Islam, Muslims, etc.? Would be very good to have some input from those that know.

Thanks.

Islam, as all religions as far as I'm aware, preach such nuggets. However, the current nasty side of Islam is that they also teach that those that are not worthy or are not of the same faith as them, deserve to die. Gee... just how tolerant is that??? Supposedly, Islam doesn't even allow debating between its followers and those of other religions... So, then just how can a follower of Islam be tolerant of other religions if that person can not even learn more about them???

If these statements are in error, please let me know. Cause I do desire to learn more. And, I promise that I will not harm anyone just because they call my kin back home in the hills of the Ozarks "hillbillies" or the such...

[moebius]

islam doesnt teach any such thing. im a muslim, and i dont believe non-muslims deserve death