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Was alexander the great bisexual?


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HumbeOpinion's Avatar
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28-Nov-2004, 06:49 AM #1
Was alexander the great bisexual?
“There is no indisputable evidence for such an attachment between Alexander and Hephaestion. That evidence does exist is circumstantial only… I do think we must acknowledge that we cannot state with certainty that Alexander and Hephaestion were lovers, either as young men, or continuing throughout their lives.”


Dr. Jeanne Reames-Zimmerman[i]


Dr. Reames-Zimmerman is a rare star in the firmament of most recent discussions of Alexander the Great’s sexuality. While clear evidence abounds concerning Alexander’s father, Philip II, being an inveterate womanizer and participate in homoerotic affairs, the ancient historians are silent on such matters with reference to Alexander. For some, the silence has become deafening.

In current discussions words such as homosexual or gay are now said to be inappropriate terms for antiquity. Some prefer the term homoerotic. The question that is on everyone’s mind is whether there is any direct evidence that Alexander the Great was involved in same sex relationships of any kind.

I was recently reading a review on www.gayheroes.com by Jay Spears concerning Stephen Pressfield’s novel about Alexander entitled The Virtues of War. Mr. Spears concludes his pro-gay article:



“To pretend that Alexander is a heterosexual is as eccentric as to portray him as an Italian. Anyone who did so would, once the laughter subsided, be grilled as to what in the world his ‘agenda’ might be to come up with such a premise. It mars, deforms, and perverts the character of the man portrayed, not because Italians are perverse, but because some semblance of the truth must reside at the core of any legitimate portrait, even in a novel.”[ii]


I wholeheartedly agree with the above stated principle: “Some semblance of the truth must reside at the core of any legitimate historical portrait, even in a novel.” My question is similar to many seekers of historical truth: where is the evidence in Alexander’s historical portrait that he was in any way involved sexually with men, boys, whether passively or actively or in any way. The chief focus in all discussions about Alexander’s sexuality seems to be Alexander’s best friend Hephaestion.

Dr. Reames-Zimmerman points out that the words for homoerotic attachments, erastes, (for the elder lover, pursuer and active participant) and eromenos, (for a younger, beloved, pursued and passive participant) are never used of Alexander and his best friend Hephaestion.




“Our three Greek historians (Arrian, Diodorus and Plutarch) never term him erastes or eromenos, only philos or malista timomenos. Alexander himself calls him Philalexandros (friend of Alexander). Curtius and Justin use only amicus, never amans.”[iii]


In other words, the five basic historians of Alexander’s life and conquests do not address the issue.

In a recent New York Post article, “Light in the Sandals,” Lou Lumenick quotes the aged Ptolemy (Anthony Hopkins) in Oliver Stone’s, Alexander, in his narration of the saga saying: “It was said… that Alexander was never defeated, except by Hephaestion’s thighs.” The only problem is Ptolemy never said it. This line of gossip comes from a disreputable and late source, which no Alexander scholars take seriously. Well, never mind, it’s a movie. Right?

Reames-Zimmerman continues:


“The only implication of a sexual relationship or use of the term eromenos for Hephaestion occurs in late sources or those of dubious authorship (Ael. VH 12.7, Epic. Dis. 2.12.17-18, Diog. Epistles 24, and Luc. Dial. Dead 397.)[iv]



But who cares? What does it matter? That this is a sexual issue doesn’t trouble me. That it is a historical issue, and therefore an issue of truth, that does engage my concern. As Mr. Spears pointed out at least in principle, if you were to authoritatively portray Alexander as a juggler, a lion tamer, or even a cross dresser, personally, I don’t care. But some evidence must be provided.

Oliver Stone told Playboy Magazine, “Alexander lived in a more honest time.” He further said of his film, “We go into his bisexuality. It may offend some people, but sexuality in those days was a different thing. Pre-Christian morality.” I hate to be pesky, but when Mr. Stone speaks of “his bisexuality” he assumes what he must at some point prove.

Jeff Robinov, Warner Brothers president of production, confessed to Entertainment Weekly, “I don’t know how people are going to respond, but I know Oliver didn’t run from who this guy was.” But wait a minute, how are any of us to know “who this guy was” if we have no primary source material to go by? It’s not enough to simply be told that homoerotic relationships were the cultural norm.

Dr. Robert Flaceliere points out,


“Homosexuality of any kind was confined to the prosperous and aristocratic levels of ancient society. The masses of peasants and artisans were probably scarcely affected by habits of this kind. The available texts deal mainly with the leisured nobility of Athens. But they may give the impression that pederasty* was practiced by the entire nation. The subject, however, of the comedy by Aristophanes entitled Lysistrata suggests that homosexuality was hardly rampant among the people at large. It would be an error of perspective to think so. Its existence among these peoples was kept more or less secret on account of the discredit which attached to it.”[v]



Homoerotic practices appear to have been introduced into Greece by 11th Century BC Dorian invaders. In Plutarch’s Erotikos we read, “Homosexuality resembles a son born late, of parents past their maturity, or a ******* child of darkness seeking to supplant his elder brother, legitimate love.” (571 F)

Some suggest that Alexander’s grief over Hephaestion’s death in some way constitutes evidence for a bisexual relationship. Reames-Zimmerman again comments concerning Hephaestion’s death,



“(It) is not proof of a sexual relationship between the two; it only proves, or at least suggests, that Hephaestion occupied the central emotional place in Alexander’s life.”[vi]


Evidence of Alexander’s sexual preferences, whatever they were, should be seen in light of the historical sources and not through the lens of a current cultural and historical relativism which considers any statement in favor of heterosexuality as a concerted attack against homoeroticism.

Historian Paul Doherty, speaking of Alexander’s detractors states:



“Alexander’s personal relationships, be it as a lover or a comrade, appeared sacred to him: his friendship with his life long friend, Hephaestion, has been the subject of much speculation… whether Alexander regarded Hephaestion as a lover or twin brother has never been decided.”[vii]


Why is this fact so difficult to accept?

Doherty also points out how Alexander’s mother, Olympias, tried to arrange for Alexander to sleep with a Thesslian courtesan, which he rejected with distain. “Sex, like sleep,” says Doherty, “was very low on Alexander’s list of priorities: he once remarked that they only reminded him of his own mortality, a fact he liked to ignore.”[viii]


Agnes Savill adds with less tact than some current authors:

“Like the detractors of ancient times, some modern writers have tried to explain Alexander’s attitude toward women as due to homosexuality. But when Philoxenes told the king that two beautiful boys had been offered for him, Alexander was furious: ‘What evil has he seen in me that he should purchase for me such shameful creatures?’ he exclaimed. ‘Tell the dealer to take his wares to hell.’ Here one ought to state that Tarn has proved on what flimsy basis such an accusation was constructed.”[ix]



Alexander had three wives, Roxane, Statiera, and Parysatis, and perhaps two mistresses, Barsine, and Pankaste/Kampaspe. Almost every pro-gay publication or website quotes Oxford historian Robin Lane Fox as the chief authority who “proves” that Alexander was bisexual. They quote from Robin Lane Fox’s re-released book, Alexander the Great, where Fox refers to Alexander as Hephaestion’s “lover”. Yet no one seems to notice that in Lane Fox’s book, The Search for Alexander, he clearly admits that no contemporary historians mentioned anything on the matter.




“Among the pages one name stands out, the Hephaestion with whom later gossip claimed that Alexander had a love affair. No contemporary history states this, but the facts show that the two men’s friendship was exceptionally deep and close.”[x]


Dr. Lane Fox is correct. No contemporary source whatsoever stated any such things of Alexander. Such inferences are indeed gossip and at that, very late, and hence disreputable. Yet despite this admission, Lane Fox then lapses into an unfounded dogmatism which has fueled anyone hungry to believe that evidence exists from the ancient sources confirming Alexander’s bisexuality.

Historically speaking, I’d like the truth, please. That’s all. Surprisingly enough, in another refreshing comment, this time with reference to the Persian eunuch Bagoas, Lane Fox remarks, “Later gossip presumed that Bagoas was Alexander’s lover. This is uncertain.”[xi]

Even Mary Renault, the patron saint of all those who seek to prove Alexander’s bisexuality, clearly acknowledges, “No historian states plainly whether they were physical lovers.”[xii]

Aristotle’s dictum still stands: “He who asserts must also prove.” When you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that claim.

Let’s ask some clear, practical questions in light of Oliver Stone’s Alexander: Did Alexander ever kiss a man on the mouth? No evidence. Did he ever play a passive or active role in same sex sexual unions? No evidence. Did he have sex of any kind with the eunuch Bagoas? No evidence. Did he ever play footsie with men or boys at a sports bar? No evidence. Did he have sex with Hephaestion or any other man, young or old? No evidence. Was he anything other than a married, heterosexual male with children who chose “power as his supreme mistress”? The answer in concert with all the primary sources is again: no evidence!

Alexander clearly distained his father Philip’s alpha male excesses and was considered something of a prig with regard to sexual matters. Interestingly enough, no one who knew them both considered Alexander either in character or in conduct to have followed in his father’s licentious footsteps. Instead it was said of him that “he gave the strange impression of one whose body was his servant.” Alexander stated that his true father figure was Aristotle, for although Philip had given him life, Aristotle had taught him how to live.

What then was Aristotle’s position on such issues. What would Alexander and Hephaestion have learned from their mentor in three years of study? In his Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle distinguishes between what is naturally pleasurable from what is pleasurable without being naturally so.


K. J. Dover explains:



“In this latter category he puts (a) things which are pleasurable because of ‘deficiencies’ or ‘impairments’ and those who find them so, (b) things which become pleasurable through habit, and (c) things which are found pleasurable by bad natures.”[xiii]


MORE ABOUT IT HERE http://www.bible-history.com/alexander-the-great/
EdGreene's Avatar
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28-Nov-2004, 10:24 AM #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by HumbeOpinion
“There is no indisputable evidence for such an attachment between Alexander and Hephaestion. That evidence does exist is circumstantial only… I do think we must acknowledge that we cannot state with certainty that Alexander and Hephaestion were lovers, either as young men, or continuing throughout their lives.”

(SNIP)

MORE ABOUT IT HERE http://www.bible-history.com/alexander-the-great/
This man who tamed Persia and settled the known world and all you want to talk about is his "bisexuality" (or not)?
This man, who studied with Aristotle and sat at the feet of Egyptian Philosophers, who brought civilization to rest of the world, and all you want to talk about is his alleged sexuality?

"Bah: Humbug"!
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28-Nov-2004, 11:06 AM #3
Yeah--this is funny---Actually the whole question came forward because a Greek group was angry at Stone's portrayl of Alexander in the horrible movie he just released.
brushmaster1's Avatar
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28-Nov-2004, 11:40 AM #4
There is little doubt that he was bisexual... something quite common and readily accepted in the greek culture of the time.

The big question is why should it matter?
iltos's Avatar
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28-Nov-2004, 12:03 PM #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by brushmaster1
There is little doubt that he was bisexual... something quite common and readily accepted in the greek culture of the time.

The big question is why should it matter?


here we go again......
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28-Nov-2004, 12:44 PM #6
I heard a program on this, and they said in that period of time, there weren't labels for that behavior, it was considered normal. I agree with Ed, Brush and Jack, who gives a rat's petute!
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28-Nov-2004, 01:18 PM #7
HO
I think this article was meant for you


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 28, 2004
OUR TOWNS
An Anguished Cry Far Away, Heard Through All the Buzz
By PETER APPLEBOME

hite Plains

AS you've perhaps heard, something really, really awful has happened.

There were these basketball players, a fight on the court, tossed cups of unidentified liquids, fights in the stands, suspensions, lawsuits and lord knows what else. Will Ron Artest's suspension help or hurt sales of the CD he's peddling? Is the Pacers' season shot? Cast your vote online, and we'll have the results at 11. A week and thousands of video clips later, we're still talking about the fight, who's to blame, what it means.

The Motown Smackdown was, no doubt, shocking, scary and newsworthy, and there has never been a time when news coverage was apportioned based on some objective scale of merit and import.

Desperate housewives meet desperate football players! Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction! Britney's marriage! John Kerry and Mary Cheney! Close-to-home trumps distant lands; easy-to-understand trumps complex; celebrity trumps anonymity; sex and violence trump everything else.

So no one really thinks that everyone in Westchester County will spend this Friday talking about the Darfur region of western Sudan, or that an ad hoc amalgam of Jewish and African-American organizations will solve the crisis there. But, of course, something really, really awful has happened there too, and it has been no small achievement for groups in Westchester to try to get people to focus for a moment on a different nightmare, far away, and to try to comprehend what's gone wrong and how it can be fixed.

Darfur remains one of those distant narratives of violence and woe eternally if obscurely buzzing about at the lower registers of the media noise machine. But after almost two years of intense conflict between nomadic Arab cattle herders and farming communities of African tribesmen, it has evolved into perhaps the world's most glaring human rights crisis. Human rights groups and international observers agree that, with the support of the Sudanese government, Arab militias are engaging in wholesale violence, rape and ethnic cleansing. Tens of thousands of people, perhaps as many as 100,000, have died and perhaps 1.8 million have been displaced. This in a region of six million people.

Enter WORD, or Westchester Organized Response for Darfur. It began in August with the American Jewish Committee, which has a history of involvement with diplomacy, a desire to raise good issues and attempts to build good bridges. The idea of doing something for Darfur was kicked around, and soon other groups were invited to participate.


BEFORE long, groups as varied as African-American Men of Westchester, the Association of Black Lawyers of Westchester County, Hope Africa Project NY and the Westchester Holocaust Education Center were on board with a simple mission: to raise awareness of the situation there and to call for action to help end the violence and help promote policies allowing humanitarian organizations safe access to provide relief and safe return to the displaced people.

So this Friday, WORD is calling for a county day of action on Darfur. On Friday and throughout the weekend, schools, advocacy groups and religious institutions in the county will conduct letter-writing and petition-signing campaigns directed at United States elected officials and the United Nations. There will be religious observances and several public and religious schools will hold educational programs.

One can see this as something a bit quixotic. What impact, really, can prayers and letters and raised awareness in a suburban county in New York have on a human rights disaster in Africa? But the groups involved say it's not quixotic at all.

"One thing that's clear is that people here can make a difference," said Ron Mitchell, who runs the Hope Africa Project NY and ran a homeless shelter in the county for 14 years. "The government has taken strong action on this issue, but it needs to know the American people are behind them, the world needs to know that people of good will, of all different backgrounds, want to take action, and not let it happen again. When we say 'never again,' we mean it."

Which leads to another offshoot. Blacks and Jews, for all their differences in recent years, still usually speak the same language on social issues, still often vote their consciences and express their moral values in ways that diverge from expressions elsewhere.

In a place like Westchester, Balkanized by class and wealth, it's not always easy to see, but it plays out more often than is sometimes apparent. And sometimes something far away can be a way to find common ground closer to home.


E-mail: peappl@nytimes.com



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29-Nov-2004, 11:47 AM #8
he never paid for sex in his life !
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29-Nov-2004, 12:44 PM #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by brushmaster1
There is little doubt that he was bisexual... something quite common and readily accepted in the greek culture of the time.

The big question is why should it matter?
Furthermore WHO CARES? The man is long since dead and no threat to Mulder anymore.

Cheers
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29-Nov-2004, 12:53 PM #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703
Furthermore WHO CARES? The man is long since dead and no threat to Mulder anymore.

Cheers
funny line

a little speculation....haven't seen the film, but i suspect the issue has something to do with glorifying the guy, and if that is a good thing....

it may be more important, if you are considering seeing the film and have concerns, to direct them towards what has been billed as "the most realistic battle scenes in the history of cinema" or something similar.....

if only oliver could direct the conflict in iraq and news was ppv....we could maybe satisfy this violence thing once and for all.
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Last edited by iltos : 29-Nov-2004 01:39 PM.
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15-Feb-2005, 06:21 AM #11
Was it Alexander who said " I have never slept with a homosexual but I once slept with a guy who had"???

Forget about it or speak to Prof Brian Bosworth at the University of Western Australia.

Brian is a noted authority on Alexander The Great.
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