[jaye944]

caught a program on the beeb, don't know if its new to you.
Certainly new to me.

It was a real eye opener, it raised a lot of questions.

see the link below on guinea pig children

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ld/4035345.stm

whats more astounding is that the ACA can pretty much do what they want,
picking on poorer black/latino famillies. Where as like anything in the US white middle class with access to atonerneys can fight this "isht"

Its a damn disgrace. Hang yall's heads in shame

Despite all that had been done to this one kid (now 15) when he was asked about how he felt to the doctor and nurses who forced him to take his medicine, he said "what can we doo.... we must forgive them"

another quote I found on the net:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,

My name is Liam Scheff, I'm a journalist working on the AIDS
diagnosis problem. I wrote a series in Boston this year called
The AIDS Debate.(Links at the bottom)

I've recently been working on a story about medical/pharmaceutical abuse in an HIV pos. children's home.

The home is called Incarnation Children's Center (ICC). It's in NYC, north of Harlem. The children who are taken into ICC have mothers who used drugs. They're black and hispanic, they're poor. And because of this, as we understand that HIV tests are non-specific and cross-reactive, the children test HIV pos.

The NIH (NIAID) and various pharmaceutical companies (Glaxo,Pfizer, Biocene) are using these kids as test subjects in clinical trials at ICC.

The kids are given AZT, Protease inhibitors, etc, as well as
experimental drugs, or drugs in experimental combinations. When
the children refuse the drugs, they're force fed.

If the kids continue to refuse, they're given a surgery to implant a plastic tube through their abdomen into their stomach. The drugs are then injected directly into their stomachs -- no refusing.

This year a six-year-old and a twelve-year-old child had strokes
because of the drugs. The 12-year-old went blind. They both died
shortly after. The children walk around in various states of
deformation and retardation because of lifelong exposure to AZT and Protease inhibitors.

Parents who refuse to give their children the drugs are labelled
'incompetent' by the city/state agency. The children are removed from parental custody and remanded to ICC. I've written an extensive story about this - which consists of an interview with a mother of two children at Incarnation, as well as the administering doctor at the place, who blithely confirms the practice of cutting these children open so they can be drugged.

This is a horrible, grotesque story. But it's real, it's happening now. I've been there, I've seen it, and I'm sick to death being the only one who knows about it.

I don't have an outlet yet, and am I'm wondering if you can help put the story out there -- web, local underground papers, any friendly, or at least not-unfriendly outlet. I certainly want everybody who is aware of the problem with the AIDS diagnosis to know that this is going on.

If I had my way, every time somebody went searching for "HIV"
or "AIDS" on the web, this story -- and all of your stories, would come up first.

I know the story's in NY, and most of you aren't, but it's a small world, and getting the story out there will help it find a publisher.

Any ideas or help are greatly appreciated. I'll send you a word doc of the piece upon your request.

Please feel free to pass this email along to any and all useful
contacts.

Hope all's well and thanks for your time and consideration,

Liam Scheff

[Jaim]

Wow, it is amazing what some people do theese days.
I would kill someone if they went after my kids, and i really feel for the parents that have their kids taken away from them just to be tested. And if the real story came out and everything was uncovered, i bet they would say "it was for their best/all for medical progress". By god, i would knock the teeth out if someone told me that to my face.

But it is a cruel world.
Have you got the site where you got the quote from? I'd like to email the guy who wrote that.

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by jaye944

caught a program on the beeb, don't know if its new to you.
Certainly new to me.

It was a real eye opener, it raised a lot of questions.

see the link below on guinea pig children

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ld/4035345.stm

whats more astounding is that the ACA can pretty much do what they want,
picking on poorer black/latino famillies. Where as like anything in the US white middle class with access to atonerneys can fight this "isht"

Its a damn disgrace. Hang yall's heads in shame

Despite all that had been done to this one kid (now 15) when he was asked about how he felt to the doctor and nurses who forced him to take his medicine, he said "what can we doo.... we must forgive them"

another quote I found on the net:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
<snip>

Some of us don't need to hang our heads, instead resist saying "We told you so" to many others!

[jaye944]

Originally Posted by bassetman

Some of us don't need to hang our heads, instead resist saying "We told you so" to many others!

or let me put my quote another way

"land of the free"
(if you can afford lawyers, you live in the right part of town and are the right shade of causasian)
"home of the brave"
(takes a mighty brave man to kidnap kids from a mother to use in drug experiments)

[jaye944]

Originally Posted by Jaim

But it is a cruel world.
Have you got the site where you got the quote from? I'd like to email the guy who wrote that.

here's the link, I did a google search for it, this evening after I watched the program, Panorama I think ?

http://groups.msn.com/aidsmythexpose...52111449780943

[angelize56]

That's a travesty of justice that they get away with such a thing! It just seems some drug companies and some city and government officials have no conscience! No child should be a forced to be a human "guinea pig"! What an outrage!!

[HumbeOpinion]

This is horrible! I feel so sorry for these poor children! Its sad to think that this goes on in the USA but I think many things that are done in the fight of cancer and other fatal diseases is just barbaric. I know many survive and live on to praise things that technology has helped to produce but if you have ever watched anyone go through cancer or aids and some of the things they go through its a nightmare! I personally don't think I could go through it even if I chose it let alone if it was forced on me. I hope that this getting attention now that some legislation will stop it! God bless the poor little children and the little orphans!

The one thing I do want to point out here though, this is not only an American crime against children because GlaxoSmithKline plc provides the medicine and the funding and they are a company out of Guildford, Surrey, UK. http://www.corporatewatch.org.uk/profiles/gsk/gsk1.htm

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by jaye944

or let me put my quote another way

"land of the free"
(if you can afford lawyers, you live in the right part of town and are the right shade of causasian)
"home of the brave"
(takes a mighty brave man to kidnap kids from a mother to use in drug experiments)

You got it!

[jaye944]

hey guy's,
GSK, yes is a brit company, but all 6 or 7 of the others are american companies.
GSK state that they obey all local laws. I also believe that research is very important as well !

the problem is from my POV, (and from the program)

that if you are a parent of a child with HIV and you do not agree with treatment the ACA can come to your house with no warrent and take your kids away from you period.
Regardless of wether the child is better for it.

That companies/doctors want to trial drugs they have free use of human gunea pigs just by using the law. A law that should be there to protect thoes that do not have a voice or protection.

These kids who end up being used, technically have no familly and the voice of them is the ACA who abducted them "legally".

I believe that children at risk from abuse should be protected from parents/foster/familly etc. but this is not the case.

Also tell me why the people who cant fight this and the ppl who are being targeted are the people who can't afford the law, so they have no protection, i.e black/hispanic.

In the UK we have out own problems, but you can be damn sure that no one can just turn up like the ACA and take your kids away because you disagree with treatment.

Also bear in mind that kids taken dont get into the court system, they get LOST in the system and shipped straight out to fosterers/clinics/homes who will allow these drug treatments.

Animals get better treatment than this, you guys (as well as us) protect animals better than we look after defensless babies and children. What life is more important a puppy or your 3 month old baby ?????

I would expect this kind of thing from 3rd world countries, from volatile african states, the mid east. From the bombers and terrorists of all thoes places that GW is trying to bomb the crap outta.

Next time you see one of your leaders standing in front of the good old red, white and blue, singing his countries praises, about freedom, peace and justice for all. Remember a 15yr old kid who endured 10 years of abuse at the hands of New yorks finest, the 10year old who had a tube fitted in her stomuch cos she refused top take the medicne that was making her ill. The kids who are shot up with a cocktail of virus, cultures and drugs that are one step away from being banned.

Remember the parents who are labelled as being abusers, the foster parents who cry to sleep everynight when helathy childred are taken away from them.

Remember its happeneing in the good old US of A and not Iraq.

[iltos]

it seems little more than experimenting on children, after creating a system that strips them of anything that makes them members of society, and much of what relates them to the rest of humanity

any degree of "morality" in government would stop this in a second, regardless of bureaucratic entanglements or legal issues.

i'm ususally pretty good at seeing both sides of an issue....i can see no justification for this at all.

[jaye944]

Originally Posted by iltos

it seems little more than experimenting on children, after creating a system that strips them of anything that makes them members of society, and much of what relates them to the rest of humanity

yep thats it !

also a lot of people are/were being conned. The nurses were all told that, a lot of the problems the kids would have , diarohea, cramps, wasting away are DUE to HIV and nothing was said that all these drugs are so lethal they are causing the side effects themselves.

Can you imagine a Nurse giving medicine cos she's been told it will make them better, but becuase of there BAD mothers they are in such a bad a terrible state.

Then imagine siad nurse finding out that the medicine they were dolling out was in fact killing these kids

information, people, information

information is knowledge
and knowledge is power !

[HumbeOpinion]

GSK, yes is a brit company, but all 6 or 7 of the others are american companies.
GSK state that they obey all local laws. I also believe that research is very important as well !

I think anyone reading this story has deep compassion for these children! Experiments on anyone is horrid! Its wonderful to see it exposed so that something can be done to stop such taking advantage of little children. No one will dispute this story is not a nightmare BUT.....I pointed out that GSK was a UK company because you started this thread out with a title like it was 100% American Style! When pointed out you come back and say BUT all the other companies are American. HOWEVER you still go on into your post today to diss America.

Next time you see one of your leaders standing in front of the good old red, white and blue, singing his countries praises, about freedom, peace and justice for all. Remember a 15yr old kid who endured 10 years of abuse at the hands of New yorks finest, the 10year old who had a tube fitted in her stomuch cos she refused top take the medicne that was making her ill. The kids who are shot up with a cocktail of virus, cultures and drugs that are one step away from being banned.Remember its happeneing in the good old US of A and not Iraq.

I just find this quite misleading. Since GSK is the world's largest maker of the AIDS/HIV medicines and they finance and give the drugs to this situation and then defend the trials of the AIDS/HIV drugs in children in care homes, saying clinical studies involving children were legal and not unusual. So they are very aware of what they are doing. But as the article that you shared with us definately shows that the poor little children are those that are poor or orphans. So if the child is the ward of the state they are pretty much free game! That is what makes it legal because these little children don't have parents. Its absolutely sick and they will probably argue that they are giving the children a chance since there are many wealthy parents that have sick children that are dying that do sign them over to experiment in hope that it saves their lives. However the thing is with this study here is that children have died! I don't know enough about the story to know what the success rate is of the children if any, but I hope that it gets more investigation and perhaps legislation gets passed to protect the innocent helpless children that have no voice in saying NO!.....but I do think slagging off the USA as if it was the only country involved is misleading here. Again GSK is HUGE and just as involved in this tragedy. Don't you think perhaps if you had listed the companies instead of attacking the USA it would have been more appropriate here? Because who is to say that not only have the other American companies involved plus GSK have been doing this all over the world for years; taking the most vulnerable little children they can find and using them to test their drugs! I hope all the companies get investigated and prosecuted!

As for the legality of the other institutions that come get the children if they are not taking the meds by the parents that signed them to do so, perhaps they just saw it as the children were getting denied medication that to them might save their lives. I didn't get to hear the testimonies of what happened but I am sure the nurses and such that were administering the drugs meant well and didn't know the harm. I hate to jump judgement on all involved until the whole investigation comes out. But when it does all come out ....those that have done wrong need to be prosecuted and stopped...from the mighty companies funding to the individuals that knew about it and looked the other way!

[jaye944]

The point is, is that "american" law, "american" politicians and "american" departments are abusing "american" kids. If there letting "uk" or a.n.other countries abuse there kids on there behalf thats even worse is it not ?

This aint happeneing in the "Uk" or any other country its happening "stateside", the reason this is probably worse is that almost every sound bite you see coming out of an "American" politicians mouth is about "freedom, justice and peace for all" and they just can't wait to get into other coutries to sort out there squabbles, when they aint even taking care oif business at home.

brings to mind an old Elvis track, lyric
"Clean up your own back yard"

[jaye944]

addendum:

I don't want anyone to think I'm anti-American. Or tar all Americans with one brush.
After all through the web I have met a lot of great people who've helped me out.

America has a lot of ideals and standards that are rare in this world,
Anyone can become president, you can be what you want to be.
The first man on the moon and the space program. Great leaders and icons such as
JFK, Martin Luthor King, Abraham Lincoln.

Thats why this is particularly sad. When any contry holds its self up to be the moral majority it "Has" to lead by example

2 things I think are sad about the UK, is we "dont" have a constiution, and the paracites called the monarchy who "rule" the country. We also have the crappiest national anthem in the world.

So just for all to remember pls re-read the lyrics from yours and see why this evil has to be stammped out,

laters

---------------------

America the Beautiful - 1913

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern, impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!

O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife.
Who more than self the country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for halcyon skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the enameled plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till souls wax fair as earth and air
And music-hearted sea!

O beautiful for pilgrims feet,
Whose stern impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America ! America !
God shed his grace on thee
Till paths be wrought through
wilds of thought
By pilgrim foot and knee!

O beautiful for glory-tale
Of liberating strife
When once and twice,
for man's avail
Men lavished precious life !
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till selfish gain no longer stain
The banner of the free!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till nobler men keep once again
Thy whiter jubilee!