[alanmzifa]

for those of you who remember - today marks the anniversary of the world's worst industrial accident which killed 3,000 people in the first few hours on 3rd december 1984 , has killed 15,000 more people since and left up to 500,000 suffering the long term effects of methyl isocyanate poisoning .

union carbide ( now owned by Dow Chemical ) came to a settlement with the indian govt . to pay c. $375 million dollars compensation ( which included monies to decontaminate the site ) in 1989. this settlement ensured Union Carbide would not be brought to court by the representatives of those killed and injured .
the majority of victims have yet to be paid compensation 15 years on.( union carbide set aside c. $4 million dollars in 1984 as a first installment which equates to approx. $1333 a life even if you only include the 3000 dead and none of the injured ) .

i think we can safely say that if such an accident had taken place in a developed country things might have been somewhat different .

[MSM Hobbes]

Terrible tragedy - and one I do recall.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...how/945492.cms
A spokesman from Union Carbide has denied reports that Dow Chemical had accepted responsibility for the Bhopal gas tragedy of 1984 which killed over 3,000.

Denying a report by the BBC from Paris that said Dow also had a $12 billion compensation plan for victims, the spokesman said by telephone from London: "The BBC story is false", Reuters reported.

Earlier, there were reports that Dow Chemical Co, in a major policy reversal had accepted full responsibility for the disaster.

"Today I am very, very happy to announce that, for the first time Dow is accepting full responsibility for the Bhopal catastrophe," company spokesman Jude Finisterra is supposed to have told BBC World television.

The report had stated that the company was also planning "$12-billion" compensation package for the victims "including the 1,20,000 who may need medical care for their entire lives and to fully and swiftly remediate the Bhopal plant site".

Sad situation. For better or worse tho' seems that time is healing wounds...
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/041203/w120322.html

Hopefully folks have learned from mistakes in the past to better insure that such a future happening is minimized or totally prevented.

[cj2448]

Originally Posted by MSM Hobbes

Terrible tragedy - and one I do recall.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...how/945492.cms
A spokesman from Union Carbide has denied reports that Dow Chemical had accepted responsibility for the Bhopal gas tragedy of 1984 which killed over 3,000.

Denying a report by the BBC from Paris that said Dow also had a $12 billion compensation plan for victims, the spokesman said by telephone from London: "The BBC story is false", Reuters reported.

Earlier, there were reports that Dow Chemical Co, in a major policy reversal had accepted full responsibility for the disaster.

"Today I am very, very happy to announce that, for the first time Dow is accepting full responsibility for the Bhopal catastrophe," company spokesman Jude Finisterra is supposed to have told BBC World television.

The report had stated that the company was also planning "$12-billion" compensation package for the victims "including the 1,20,000 who may need medical care for their entire lives and to fully and swiftly remediate the Bhopal plant site".

Sad situation. For better or worse tho' seems that time is healing wounds...
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/041203/w120322.html

Hopefully folks have learned from mistakes in the past to better insure that such a future happening is minimized or totally prevented.

BBC apologises after Bhopal hoax
Fri 3 December, 2004 16:32

By Jeffrey Goldfarb

LONDON (Reuters) - The BBC's international TV news channel has apologised after being duped into airing an interview with a fake Dow Chemical spokesman who said the U.S. company accepted responsibility for India's Bhopal disaster.

BBC World broadcast the comments twice by a man identified as Jude Finisterra, but later said it had been the victim of "an elaborate deception".

Dow Chemical says it bears no responsibility for one of the world's worst industrial disasters, 20 years ago on Friday, in which more than 3,500 people died after lethal gas escaped from a chemical plant in the central Indian city Bhopal.

A Dow Chemical spokeswoman in Switzerland confirmed the BBC report was wrong and that the man was not a Dow employee. The Bhopal factory was owned by Union Carbide, now a Dow subsidiary.

Several other news organisations including Reuters reported Finisterra's comments to the BBC. Reuters withdrew its story once BBC World said it had been deceived.

"We apologise to Dow and to anyone who watched the interview who may have been misled by it," the BBC said in a statement read out during a subsequent news bulletin. "Of course, the BBC is investigating how the deception happened."

In preparing for reports about the anniversary of the disaster, BBC reporters visited what they thought was Dow's Web site and contacted Finisterra, who was listed there as a company spokesman, the BBC said.

"The individual was contacted by the BBC and, during a series of phone calls, claimed that there would be a significant announcement to be made on behalf of the Dow Chemical company," it said. "He gave no further detail until the live interview."

The information given during the interview "was inaccurate, part of an elaborate deception", the BBC said. "The person did not represent the company and we want to make it clear that the information he gave was entirely inaccurate."

Finisterra, whose identity could not be confirmed, later told BBC's Radio 4 he was part of the group Yes Men, which hoaxes businesses and governments and which has gone after Dow before over Bhopal.

"I was speaking on behalf of Dow in a certain way. I was expressing what they should express," he said. "I have enough connection with Dow as everybody else on the planet. I use many of their products."

Finisterra, who said the group would strike again, said he had heard Bhopal residents broke down in tears when they learned of the report, and that he felt bad about it.

"This is an unfortunate result that we did anticipate might happen," he said.

He could face civil and criminal legal action if tracked down, legal experts say. The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission has in the past filed charges against individuals who have issued fraudulent statements about companies.

"Finisterra has made false statements that have a connection with a trading market and if he knew they were false, that is a crime," said professor Steve Thel of New York's Fordham Law School.

"The least of his problems is private liability because he likely does not have enough money -- but rather criminal sanctions."

An SEC spokesman declined to comment.

BBC World said its interview was recorded in Paris.

Dow shares declined 0.6 percent to $49.64 in morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange. They had earlier fallen in Frankfurt after the report by some two euros but later recovered to 37.40 euros, just 20 cents down.

The company fell victim to a hoax two years ago by the Yes Men when the group posted a fake Dow Web site and directed journalists to it on the 18th anniversary of Bhopal.

A documentary film about the group has spotlighted their pranks against U.S. President George W. Bush and the World Trade Organisation.

The BBC has recently been embroiled in a row over how it is regulated and funded after its two top officials were forced to resign this year following sharp criticism of a report about the Iraq war.

The mistake comes as the broadcaster is in the middle of a once-a-decade review by the government.

[MSM Hobbes]

hmmmmm..... for more info on this Yes Men, and to apply for a position , visit:
http://www.theyesmen.org

For more info into what has transired related to the Dow "legacy": http://www.theyesmen.org/hijinks/dow/
Partial excerpt:
"**It's really funny, but also really awful how Dow, the son of Dow, and Verio can just put sooooo much energy and creativity into making sure this little image problem gets minimized, whereas they can't possibly be bothered to do something about the basic problem they're faced with: DEAD PEOPLE. SICK PEOPLE. TOXIC MESS.
By buying Union Carbide, Dow acquired Union Carbide's liability and responsibility, in a legal sense, and in a common-sense sense. And yet they absolutely refuse to accept it: "What we cannot and will not do... is accept responsibility for the Bhopal accident" (November 28, 2002 memo previously posted on Dow).
Dow is using every trick in the books to squeak by—just like it did with our "son of Dow" goof—and is letting Bhopal rot in the meantime.
The problem here isn't just one of principle: it also means that eighteen years later, the Bhopal site remains contaminated, and no one accepts the responsibility for cleaning it up. Dow would rather wipe an entire activist and artistic network right off the face of the internet, weasel their way into ownership of a critical website, etc., instead of just doing the right thing and dealing with Bhopal."

[alanmzifa]

there must be more than 3 people remember this ?

deaths are still happening today - anyone else have views ?

[linskyjack]

If this happened in the US, the families would be getting millions and Dow would probably be in deep trouble. Unfortunately, we live in the age of Bush and I doubt very much that you will see this problem addressed---

[alanmzifa]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

If this happened in the US, the families would be getting millions and Dow would probably be in deep trouble. Unfortunately, we live in the age of Bush and I doubt very much that you will see this problem addressed---

there are several parties involved here , Union Carbide , Dow Chemical , the Indian govt. who do you think bears the most blame ?

[MSM Hobbes]

In my mind, warped as it may be, my thought process tends to go towards Dow. When they took over UC after the tragedy, they also took on UC's liabilities - in a perfect world UC themselves should have done more sooner after, but even so, DC should own up to their responsibilities. Or at the least make their lawyers and Board of Directors live there for a time...

[iltos]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

If this happened in the US, the families would be getting millions and Dow would probably be in deep trouble. Unfortunately, we live in the age of Bush and I doubt very much that you will see this problem addressed---

this was my take, too...it sounds as tho considerable pressures were brought into play to minimize the potential loss to a variety of "more important" issue, the reputation of union carbide being among them.

[alanmzifa]

yeah , big business and the third world .....

i like MSM Hobbes idea of making the directors live there ...

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by iltos

this was my take, too...it sounds as tho considerable pressures were brought into play to minimize the potential loss to a variety of "more important" issue, the reputation of union carbide being among them.

This is hilarious. This happens in 1984 and you two Moore-Ons find a way to blame it on Bush! There was a "settlement" agreed on by the parties. Regardless of whether it was fair or unfair Bush had nothing to do with it nor can he do anything about it. Are you two suggesting that he "undo" a settlement reached by the parties? Just exactly what could he "legally" do?

Sometimes the ignorance in this forum is stunning.

iltos--I'm not sure if you agree with Hi-Jack about this being Bush's fault or not. If you did, then my comments above apply to you, if not, they dont'!

[Mulderator]

union carbide ( now owned by Dow Chemical ) came to a settlement with the indian govt . to pay c. $375 million dollars compensation

This is the key. If this settlement was not "fair" (and that is relative because no here knows all the facts or legal issues or defenses), then it is the fault of the Indian govt and its counsel (and the counsel of the victims) and no one elses.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Mulder

This is hilarious. This happens in 1984 and you two Moore-Ons find a way to blame it on Bush! There was a "settlement" agreed on by the parties. Regardless of whether it was fair or unfair Bush had nothing to do with it nor can he do anything about it. Are you two suggesting that he "undo" a settlement reached by the parties? Just exactly what could he "legally" do?

Sometimes the ignorance in this forum is stunning.

you know, mulder, i know how much you get a kick out of bashing liberals, but i continue to assume you are intelligent....maybe that's the problem, aye?

i go to great lenghts to emphasize what i agree with, just to avoid misunderstandings, so that i can actually "talk" to people here...even you... about things that are interesting to me and to avoid being judged...even by you...in your case, to avoid being lumped into your self gratifing little boxes

while i don't mind wearing my little tin foil hat as some symbol of my ignorance , i truely do resent you eagerness to swagger in here and tell me what i'm thinking or what i'm about.

fwiw, i can see where you might have been confused, because i left jack's line about bush in the quote...but that doesn't excuse you in my book....cause you are intelligent, and you knew exactly what you were about

there will be times when i probably have a view that deserves (from your standpoint) to be laughed at.....but i resent it being done by association

[linskyjack]

Hey, don't take Mulder too seriously---its all about "thinking" you have won an argument---it isn't about the truth or reality. Beyond that, he has listened to too much right wing talk radio--I'm still waiting for Cheney to release those papers on his "energy commission". This group will make the Teapot Dome Scandal look like a jaywalking ticket.

[alanmzifa]

what's more interesting is that mudler has no view on the subject of the thread - somehow the only issue for discussion is liberal or otherways politics again !