[fire_mat99]

What does this meen

Federal Government Debt now $7.4 trillion and climbing
http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debt.htm
http://faculty.tcu.edu/jlovett/econ_data/govt-debt.pdf#search='US%20government%20in%20debt'

[Sitb]

It means that your country's government has borrowed a LOT of money and it owes 7.4 trillion dollars to people who have leant it to them. Over one trillion dollars is owed to people who have leant them money from outside of the United States. This means that over one trillion dollars has yet to leave the country and the US is obligated to pay all of it.

[linskyjack]

No big deal--we are going to Mars--!

[Sitb]

Mars would be pointless, might as well choose a planet that already has a stable atmosphere!... less work

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

No big deal--we are going to Mars--!

Maybe Tehran and Damascas too!
Seriously, it means fiscal conservatism is a myth. ---at least as practiced by so called 'conservatives' today. There is nothing for nothing , a big price will paid for this foolishness. I dont feel the need to post charts to explain what everbody knows---spending is out of control. >f

[linskyjack]

I've being saying that since I started posting here. Mulder seems to think that a manageble defict is okay for the economy--I think that we are moving rapidly beyond manageable.

[Rep]

Originally Posted by fire_mat99

What does this meen

Federal Government Debt now $7.4 trillion and climbing
http://home.att.net/~mwhodges/debt.htm
http://faculty.tcu.edu/jlovett/econ_data/govt-debt.pdf#search='US%20government%20in%20debt'

It means that more and more of the tax money collected each year will not be used for the services you and I want and need.

It means that more of that money must go to pay foreigners interest on our debt.

It means you will have less.

It means that every baby born in our country will have a huge debt to start life out with. This is a tax on the unborn.

Republicans control the office of the president. Republicans dominate the U.S. House of Representatives. Republicans hold a large majority of the U.S. Senate. They are in charge of making every policy decision in our nation. Every decision.

Recently they forgave the Iraqi government over four billion dollars in debt that they owed the American people.

Within the last two weeks they cut Pell grants for college students.

Check out the thread, "Surprise". You will see how they use the power they have.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by Rep

It means that more and more of the tax money collected each year will not be used for the services you and I want and need.

It means that more of that money must go to pay foreigners interest on our debt.

It means you will have less.

It means that every baby born in our country will have a huge debt to start life out with. This is a tax on the unborn.

Republicans control the office of the president. Republicans dominate the U.S. House of Representatives. Republicans hold a large majority of the U.S. Senate. They are in charge of making every policy decision in our nation. Every decision.

Recently they forgave the Iraqi government over four billion dollars in debt that they owed the American people.

Within the last two weeks they cut Pell grants for college students.

Check out the thread, "Surprise". You will see how they use the power they have.

Thank you Rep!. Fidelista was at loss for words {as usual} .
You should be in Washington!!! >f

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Rep

Republicans control the office of the president. Republicans dominate the U.S. House of Representatives. Republicans hold a large majority of the U.S. Senate. They are in charge of making every policy decision in our nation. Every decision.

Well this is interesting Rep. I've tried to educate people here on this subject and I would like to know what you would recommend that Mr. Bush do that Mr. Clinton did. I've stressed that deficits are NOT the result of spending, but rather the result of how well the economy does.

As an example, lets look at the spending as a percentage of GDP--Clinton outspent Bush in just about every year proving my point that deficits are driven by the economy not by spending. Clinton averaged spending 19.3 percent of GDP in his 8 years while Bush is averaged 18.5 percent of GDP. So Bush is spending 6% less than Clinton did!!! during his Presidency. The only reason Clinton didn't run deficits is because we had a booming economy.

So exactly what do you propose Bush cut? I would be happy to see a 10% across the board cut in everything (except Medicare). However, Bush would NEVER get away with that. The democrats would NEVER allow it to happen. Despite your whining about Republicans controlling everything, you know damn well they don't have a super majority and therefore Democrats can hold up anything they want. So your assertion that Republicans can do anything they want is just flat out wrong and you know it.

Here are the numbers on spending:



What is irritating about you Rep is that you would not support any cuts in any social programs at all and that is where the bulk of the spending is. So you tell us what should be cut to balance the budge? (and don't say Iraq, because that won't even come close to balancing the budget--to do it, there MUST be a major cuts in spending OR wait for the economy to kick into high gear).

[Mulderator]

And in the following graph you can see why deficits occur--they always come after a recession of course, because no one wants to cut spending, so if the revenue drops, the spending does not, hence a deficit. Clinton was able to avoid that merely by not increasing spending much (although he did increase is).

Here is the source for the recessions:

http://www.nber.org/cycles.html



Democrats have been "lucky" in that Clinton took office at the start of an economic boom (something he had nothing to do with) and then left office at the start of a recession (and had very little to do with that and Bush certainly had nothing to do with it).

In the last 20 years, Republicans have had the misfortune of taking office right at the start of recessions or in the case of Bush I in office when a recession occurred (which is why he was not re-elected).

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by Mulder

Well this is interesting Rep. I've tried to educate people here on this subject and I would like to know what you would recommend that Mr. Bush do that Mr. Clinton did. I've stressed that deficits are NOT the result of spending, but rather the result of how well the economy does.

As an example, lets look at the spending as a percentage of GDP--Clinton outspent Bush in just about every year proving my point that deficits are driven by the economy not by spending. Clinton averaged spending 19.3 percent of GDP in his 8 years while Bush is averaged 18.5 percent of GDP. So Bush is spending 6% less than Clinton did!!! during his Presidency. The only reason Clinton didn't run deficits is because we had a booming economy.

So exactly what do you propose Bush cut? I would be happy to see a 10% across the board cut in everything (except Medicare). However, Bush would NEVER get away with that. The democrats would NEVER allow it to happen. Despite your whining about Republicans controlling everything, you know damn well they don't have a super majority and therefore Democrats can hold up anything they want. So your assertion that Republicans can do anything they want is just flat out wrong and you know it.

Here are the numbers on spending:



What is irritating about you Rep is that you would not support any cuts in any social programs at all and that is where the bulk of the spending is. So you tell us what should be cut to balance the budge? (and don't say Iraq, because that won't even come close to balancing the budget--to do it, there MUST be a major cuts in spending OR wait for the economy to kick into high gear).

Mulder, What do you see that indicates our economy "kicking in to high gear"????.
Maybe I should get a second morgage on future raise, being re-educated as a rocket scientist {paying more taxes} ---or winning the lotto???.
You must admit, the pie is getting smaller, and priorities have shifted.>f

[Rep]

I'm just an old tax and spend democrat. Things have changed and the borrow and spend republicans control the place. Republicans have made hay in the last couple of months talking about mandates and how the house will promote its agenda based on the majority of the majority.

Your party controls the place Mulder. All of it.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

I've being saying that since I started posting here. Mulder seems to think that a manageble defict is okay for the economy--I think that we are moving rapidly beyond manageable.

Don't listen to me--just look at history. FDR ran historically massive debts (see chart below)--I mean huge in comparison to any other President and they ran for two decades and then we had one of the most properous times in history. Reagan than also ran big deficits and again we came out of it smelling like a rose in the huge economy we had in the 90s. Bottom line is "its the economy stupid!" If the economy does not turn around and boom, then you we will be screwed because we can't cut social programs--none of you liberals will allow that and Republicans won't allow cuts in the military, although that's only about 1/5th of the spending.

That was the whole point of the tax cuts becuase if the economy doesn't turn around, there is no way the deficits will end (unless Democrats agree to massive cuts in the budget). Its that simple. You can spin this as Bush's fault, but the numbers don't lie.

[linskyjack]

Well, one thing that Mr. Clinton did that Mr. Bush hasn't is that he kept the tax rates high enough to pay for government largesse. Mulder, you aren't going to get away with shifting responsibility for where we are two years from now off the Republican party's back. I could see this coming. Republicans are claiming that the American people have given them a mandate, but in the same breath they tell us that the majority isn't big enough. Well, Mulder, you can't fool the American people. You control the House, the Senate, the Executive Branch and within four years you will radicalize the court system. Its your baby so deal with it. As I said shortly after Herr Bush's election, the seeds for the destruction of this radical right wing group have been planted.

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by Rep

I'm just an old tax and spend democrat. Things have changed and the borrow and spend republicans control the place. Republicans have made hay in the last couple of months talking about mandates and how the house will promote its agenda based on the majority of the majority.

Your party controls the place Mulder. All of it.

You didn't answer the question. What do you propose to "cut" so that we can balance the budget? Your good at playing the blame game, but you don't have any of the answers. The numbers don't lie.