[linskyjack]

Fine---then call the Pope a man who did some good things and did some bad things. Enough of the deification. It is sickening!

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Fine---then call the Pope a man who did some good things and did some bad things. Enough of the deification. It is sickening!

What do you care what the Roman Catholic Church does? It has no power over you. Why do you care who they deify? What's your goal in besmirching the Pope? Do you believe he is incapable of making a mistake? (assuming you are correct in your criticism and the fact that you are levying it immediately brings the validity of it into serious doubt). Should be be judged at the end of their lives by the mistakes they made or by the totatlity of their life's achievements?

As I stated, your sole and only purpose for making this thread is to poke Catholics with a stick. Why don't you be a man and own up to it.

[linskyjack]

LOL--Why dont you speak out against the child molester Cardinal Law and his defender, the deceased Pope? By the way, thought you were a law and order type. When Law fled to Rome and was protected by his holiness did you say anything? Nope! Our children are more important then a pedophile protecting Cardinal! Actually, this thread is about people like you who like to pick and choose your heros, not based on morality but based on your sick need to attack those who you consider liberal!

By the way, using your criteria, you have no right to criticize anyone who doesn't come from the same background as you do Thats so 1984!

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

LOL--Why dont you speak out against the child molester Cardinal Law and his defender, the deceased Pope? By the way, thought you were a law and order type. When Law fled to Rome and was protected by his holiness did you say anything? Nope! Our children are more important then a pedophile protecting Cardinal! Actually, this thread is about people like you who like to pick and choose your heros, not based on morality but based on your sick need to attack those who you consider liberal!

By the way, using your criteria, you have no right to criticize anyone who doesn't come from the same background as you do Thats so 1984!

Actually, the Pope is NOT my hero and niether is Cardinal Law or any other Cardinal or priest--although I am Catholic I have no particular addtional reverence for any church official any more than I do for any other person that has a good heart--I'll judge them by their conduct, not by the garments the wear. As far as I am concerned they are subject to the same errors in judgment as anyone else. I have no idea what Law knew or didn't know, what he did or didn't do and neither do you.

If Christ had been crucified yesterday, I suspect you'd start a thread entitled, "King of the Jews Lets Murderers in to Heaven!"

[linskyjack]

LOL--So you judge the Pope based upon his heart? Well where the hell was his heart when those kids were being molested in the archdiocese? I never want to hear you commenting on Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc. You are not one of them and therefore are not entitled to an opinion!

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

LOL--So you judge the Pope based upon his heart?

I judge all people that way. Actually, I don't "judge", but that is how I decide whether a person is genuine. Believe it or not, I actually believe you are a pretty good person at heart, although significantly confused politically!

[linskyjack]

Well that is about the most rational thing you have said in weeks!

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

LOL--So you judge the Pope based upon his heart? Well where the hell was his heart when those kids were being molested in the archdiocese? I never want to hear you commenting on Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc. You are not one of them and therefore are not entitled to an opinion!

Is not judging the heart where we condemn Cheney? .
I am afraid Mulder is kicking your butt! LOL!.
Seriously, as Mulder is Catholic, and I am ex-Catholic, "we" are probably more critical of things in the church than non-Catholic, very possibly more than you.. I am SURE Mulder and I could agree, or at least understand each other in this regard.
I am also sure that he is not expressing critisisim at this time , out of respect.
I believe the Pope had good heart, and most important, loved peace.
Not a bad man now days. >f

[linskyjack]

I have nothing against the Pope--notice how I said the Vatican is responsible for this cover-up----Fact is, I thought the Pope, as Pope's go, was fairly consistent in his regard for what he considered to be of moral importance. However, I can not fathom how a man like Law is giving one of 9 funeral masses for John Paul, and in the process, reopening the wounds that many families in Boston have sufferred. For the historical record, I would like to know what role John Paul played in bringing Law to Rome. Martin Luther started a Reformation based on this kind of tawdry behavior. I would love to hear from a Roman Catholic in regards to this issue. I mean a Roman Catholic who thinks that the Pope is unfallable. I do compliment the crowd outside St. Peters today. They gave a rowdy catcall when Bush's image appeared on the Jumbotron. It is also my understanding that the Pope was against the invasion of Iraq, and didn't by the nonsensical notion of the war being a just war.

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

I am afraid Mulder is kicking your butt! LOL!.

Oh No Fidelista! Now, according to linskyjack your:

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Everything is a fight, an arse kicking etc. You guys both sound like men who never grew up, little babies. You act like pack animals who can't get over the fact that you really dont have the intelligence or debating skills to be the alpha male. Heck, you guys are the runts of the litter.

Hello runt of the litter.

[aspinajo]

This is the first time in this forum and i love a healthy debate especially on the subject of rogue clergy, i fully back what Linskyjack is saying, it really is about time catholics wake up to the fact that priests etc are only human and not some divine conduit between god and the masses, as displayed by the many who have been caught playing with kiddy's and who knows, that is probably the tip of the iceberg.

These people need to be weeded out of every profession but more so in positions of trust and they are obviously being protected by people with the same tastes but higher up the food chain, i am not into bagging the clergy, they, like any profession have there place in society, but what confuses me is how people can be sucked in by the rhetoric that they come out with when passing on the so called word of god, the bible has been written and rewritten so many times over the centuries by learned people of the times and they have put in and taken out what suits them and as an argument against this question they keep saying "but it is the word of god", i try and keep an open mind on things like this and i would say" but who told you", did god tell you personally and if he did'nt then you are doing what a lot of other people have been doing and just accepting what one person is telling you instead of questioning the whole ideal. (chinese whispers).

Thanks
aspinajo

[LANMaster]

Carinal Law should not only have lost his position, but he should have been excommunicated, in my honest opinion.

The damage he has caused to the Catholic church, let alone the poor kids molested by the Priest he protected, was extensive.

The fact that the Pope was aware of the problem, and chose to do nothing about it, tells me that he either simply did not understand the magnitude, or he didn't believe the charges were legitimate. Somebody must have told him how serious this was.
But I think he was simply ignorant to the facts. It was his JOB to make himself aware of what was happening. If he was too frail and ill to do his JOB then he should have resigned.

I think the first JOB for the new Pope will be to fire or even excommunicate Cardinal Law.

I take this far more seriously than the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse.

[Wino]

Originally Posted by aspinajo

This is the first time in this forum and i love a healthy debate especially on the subject of rogue clergy, i fully back what Linskyjack is saying, it really is about time catholics wake up to the fact that priests etc are only human and not some divine conduit between god and the masses, as displayed by the many who have been caught playing with kiddy's and who knows, that is probably the tip of the iceberg.

These people need to be weeded out of every profession but more so in positions of trust and they are obviously being protected by people with the same tastes but higher up the food chain, i am not into bagging the clergy, they, like any profession have there place in society, but what confuses me is how people can be sucked in by the rhetoric that they come out with when passing on the so called word of god, the bible has been written and rewritten so many times over the centuries by learned people of the times and they have put in and taken out what suits them and as an argument against this question they keep saying "but it is the word of god", i try and keep an open mind on things like this and i would say" but who told you", did god tell you personally and if he did'nt then you are doing what a lot of other people have been doing and just accepting what one person is telling you instead of questioning the whole ideal. (chinese whispers).

Thanks
aspinajo

aspinajo, Welcome to the fray.

BTW, I lease cast iron knickers at reasonable prices. From the gist of your post, you'll probably need a pair!

[angelize56]

Originally Posted by Wino

BTW, I lease cast iron knickers at reasonable prices. From the gist of your post, you'll probably need a pair!

Well don't lend him mine!

[angelize56]

Apr 11, 10:52 AM EDT

Police Stymie Vatican Protest Over Law

By RACHEL ZOLL
AP Religion Writer

<Snippet> VATICAN CITY (AP) -- A small but symbolic protest by victims of sex abuse at the hands of American clergy was stymied Monday when police escorted one of the organizers off St. Peter's Square before she could distribute fliers.

Several uniformed officers walked Barbara Blaine, founder of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, behind barricades set up at the entrance to the square. The officers did not explain why they escorted Blaine off the piazza, and she had no immediate comment.

Blaine and another leader of the group brought their campaign for reform to the center of Roman Catholicism, demanding that Vatican officials bar Cardinal Bernard Law from celebrating an important Mass mourning Pope John Paul II.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT