[iltos]

it's surprising to me that no one here has jumped on one side or the other of the anti-american demonstrations, and violence, that are spreading through islam over the alleged desecration of the koran.

a lot has been said over the last months about how muslims need to begin speaking out against the zealots, and condemn the violence....some muslim scholars and intellectuals have, but the majority of islam has remained silent, "proving" different things to different people.

what is this proving to you?

[linskyjack]

I posted on it in another thread. Got very little response. Actually Mulder said something about there being only 8 deaths----inferring that it was inconsequential. I didn't bother to make the point that thousands of Muslims are taking to the street and that once again, the US is losing the public relations battle. It was interesting that Condi Rice jumped on it immediately and apologized profusely---as if that matters at this point.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

I posted on it in another thread. Got very little response.

feels a bit like the eye of the hurricane...eerie

[Wino]

I must apologize.................but I'm at the point that all Islam is nuttier than a fruit cake..............until they can prove otherwise............there is nothing they can do or say that will surpise me.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Wino

I must apologize.................but I'm at the point that all Islam is nuttier than a fruit cake..............until they can prove otherwise............there is nothing they can do or say that will surpise me.

no need to apologize....there is to me a certain bizzare element to all of these demonstrations getting started over tossing a (not christain, but still) bible into the toilet....

still....regardless of the cause...the effect is startling, and, imo, indicative of both an age old resentment, and a present day anger....

a bad combination....

[linskyjack]

Islam is so paradoxical, it is often impossible to make any sense of it. It's not the throwing of the Koran in the toilet (that would only set off the most extreme of the extreme) but it is the context of the infidel using the Koran to torture devout Muslims. In other words, its the subtext. Also remember, that Islam as a whole is mired in the Medieval age---they need about 400 years to catch up to the rest of the world. Until then, I would make sure I kept my distance while making sure that you swiftly punish those who would kill innocent civilians.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

they need about 400 years to catch up to the rest of the world.

i've heard this said numerous times....personally, i take it to mean that allah is one scary (harsh) god....and this perhaps explains the reticence to speak out against those who use his name to rationalize the violence

muslims seem stuck between a rock and a hard place, imo...many want the fruits of the modern world, but (and particularly those millions in less developed countries, and/or with less means) between the fear of their god and their fear of the west, are pretty much stuck....

perhaps that is a part of what we are seeing now....venting their frustration.

[Wino]

Originally Posted by iltos

i've heard this said numerous times....personally, i take it to mean that allah is one scary (harsh) god....and this perhaps explains the reticence to speak out against those who use his name to rationalize the violence

muslims seem stuck between a rock and a hard place, imo...many want the fruits of the modern world, but (and particularly those millions in less developed countries, and/or with less means) between the fear of their god and their fear of the west, are pretty much stuck....

perhaps that is a part of what we are seeing now....venting their frustration.

Sounds like a replay of the native American Indians shortly after Manifest Destiny.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Wino

....but I'm at the point that all Islam is nuttier than a fruit cake

Originally Posted by iltos

no need to apologize....there is to me a certain bizzare element to all of these demonstrations getting started over tossing a (not christain, but still) bible into the toilet....

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Islam is so paradoxical, it is often impossible to make any sense of it. It's not the throwing of the Koran in the toilet (that would only set off the most extreme of the extreme) but it is the context of the infidel using the Koran to torture devout Muslims. In other words, its the subtext. Also remember, that Islam as a whole is mired in the Medieval age---they need about 400 years to catch up to the rest of the world. Until then, I would make sure I kept my distance while making sure that you swiftly punish those who would kill innocent civilians.

Originally Posted by iltos

...personally, i take it to mean that allah is one scary (harsh) god....and this perhaps explains the reticence to speak out against those who use his name to rationalize the violence

muslims seem stuck between a rock and a hard place, imo...many want the fruits of the modern world, but (and particularly those millions in less developed countries, and/or with less means) between the fear of their god and their fear of the west, are pretty much stuck....

perhaps that is a part of what we are seeing now....venting their frustration.

The most violent element in society is ignorance. Emma Goldman

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Sarge

The most violent element in society is ignorance. Emma Goldman

certainly a factor....and it supports linksy's assertion of islam being still a medieval religion

and you may well have some first hand experience that supports the view, as well

but methinks, world wide, there's something more to it....

[linskyjack]

Only in TSG can you get a fine member of the military quoting Emma Goldman---My hat is off to you Sarge! Keep safe. By the way, I have no desire to bring Islam into the modern era---that is insane. I am a strict isolationist---believing that no country in the history of mankind has socially engineered another country. Having said that, I want to shoot first and ask questions later--ie. find the fanatics, destroy them, and remove yourself form the scene of the crime. I dont think that 150,000 men invading a country and remaining their for years accomplishes this.

[LANMaster]

The media outlet who made this accusation provides no proof whatsoever.

In my opinion, that media outlet should be sued for the lives of all of those killed due to the story.

[linskyjack]

Well Lan, the fact that our Secretary of State chimed in fairly quickly at least shows that these violent demonstrations were taking place. As far as accurate kill numbers go, I think they are irrelevant. People demonstrated in a violent fashion against what they considered to be desecration of thier Holy Book.

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

I am a strict isolationist---

My responses:

1. Yes, but a moderate one.

2. You should try practicing that at home.

3. Unfortunately, one with a keyboard.



Okay, CivDebates back to normal.

[Wino]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

The media outlet who made this accusation provides no proof whatsoever.

In my opinion, that media outlet should be sued for the lives of all of those killed due to the story.

That would be Newsweek mag, May 9th.