[DiSaidSo]

OK, I don't exactly have time to respond to everything I'd like to at this time, but here are a couple of things that caught my eye at first scan...

Originally Posted by dugq

Thats completely unrealistic. Are you proposing we tax some rock stars and use that money to send some people to africa? Do you really think that going to make the slightest difference.

It's called SARCASM!!! Holy crap, no I do not REALISTICALLY think we should tax rockstars! What I really hate are these multi-millionaires trying to make me feel guilty for living a modest life. And as I mentioned a few posts back, I also think they should take all the money that they're going to spend putting this MULTI-CITY concert on and broadcast it worldwide, take that money and, I don't know, buy some medication for some sick kids. But instead, they're going off on this self-aggrandizing tirade to get a bunch of politicians to listen to their "message." Do you really think that the leaders of the G8 DON'T KNOW what kind of debt Africa is in??? Seriously? And a bunch of musicians and people at a concert are supposed to change that???

I really don't think you appreciate the problem.

That's quite an assumption to make considering all you've got to go on is what I've typed here. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean that I am not intelligent nor does it mean that I have not gone to school and studied these things with some of the most seasoned disaster relief professionals in the business.

There is no way for these countries to get themselves out of poverty because whatever money they make cannot be invested in their education, health, infratructure or anything else, because they have to give it to us

OK. Then if we cancel the debt, then we can cancel the aid too, right?

[dugq]

Originally Posted by DiSaidSo

It's called SARCASM!!! Holy crap, no I do not REALISTICALLY think we should tax rockstars! What I really hate are these multi-millionaires trying to make me feel guilty for living a modest life. And as I mentioned a few posts back, I also think they should take all the money that they're going to spend putting this MULTI-CITY concert on and broadcast it worldwide, take that money and, I don't know, buy some medication for some sick kids. But instead, they're going off on this self-aggrandizing tirade to get a bunch of politicians to listen to their "message." Do you really think that the leaders of the G8 DON'T KNOW what kind of debt Africa is in??? Seriously? And a bunch of musicians and people at a concert are supposed to change that???

First, as with the first live aid, most of the logistics will be provided free of charge and the concert will make a profit, which will then go in aid. In other words, more money will be amde for such things as medication than if they just gave their money (and why assume that they are not giving their money).

Take Pink Floyd as an example. The various egos in that band have prevented it from performing together for over 2 decades. They could easily have gotten together and performed a massive worldwide sell out tour and made millions. Instead they are reforming for a one-off charity gig. I hardly think that is self-aggradizement.

Second, of course western governments know how much Africa is in debt, the question is whether they will do anything about it. Democratic politicians will only do something if they think there are votes involved, and they will only think there are votes involved if the issue is in the public domain and is clearly an issue of importance to voters. The Live8 concert has succedded in putting this issue into the spotlight.

That's quite an assumption to make considering all you've got to go on is what I've typed here. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean that I am not intelligent nor does it mean that I have not gone to school and studied these things with some of the most seasoned disaster relief professionals in the business.

I'm sorry if I have insulted you, but since the only solution you have proposed so far is sending aid workers to assess African needs, when we already have aid workers in Africa and we already know their needs, I don't think my assumption was baseless

OK. Then if we cancel the debt, then we can cancel the aid too, right?

Wrong, we increase the aid, albeit through targeted schemes. Debt relief will not solve the problem, you yourself have said this. But without debt relief the problem will never be solved.

[MSM Hobbes]

Ok, now in all seriousness... and to help anyone feeling a tad insomniac, here is something to help yas sleep...

Yeap, poverty/hunger can be eliminated - but, only in a perfect world... . And the last time I checked, thanks or not to the wills, greed, desires, and whims of humankind throughout its history, the world, she ain't perfect; even in the USofA. If such was the case, would there be homeless stragglers, poverty, and/or hunger in various areas w/in our own borders? Can not begin to describe the conditions that I've seen in just my little bit of traveling through the back [and even some front] roads of durn near every state I've been through. And, why is such here? Jobs, Education, Gov't., Laziness, whatever... I've looked to the side of the road, as I traveled between my hotel room and the plant I was working at in Monterrey, Mexico, and seen cardboard huts, about the size of my cubicle, that housed a family - and there are acres upon acres of these "subdivisions" Kids the ages of mine roaming the streets at 1am panhandling at intersections. From CA to AL to AR to MA to SC to MO to TX to MI, etc. there is similar, if not to the same scale, conditions, esp. in the larger cities. Another prob is that humans are about the only species upon the Earth that doesn't have means to check-and-balance their numbers, as vast majority of all other lifeforms do. More rabbits => more prey, more prey => less rabbits, less rabbits => less prey, less prey => more rabbits, etc. And the supposedly most intelligent species upon the Earth builds more and more houses in deserts and similar locales where the resources are stretched thin to begin with... We don't live with nature, we try to overwhelm and superstructure our ways around her, and then act in shock when landslides take the ~$3m house off of a hillside One point I'm trying to make here is that simply "giving" money, aid, and/or reducing/cancelling debt is NOT the only answer - the population in Africa must be checked to balance resources, and education is one very important key to this.

Anyhow, back to more related point of this topic [sorry for the rambling...], as far as I know, regarding Africa, it is a very rich country, in terms of her minerals, fauna, flora, and culture. However, through the past and current deeds of idiots and greeders [power &/or $$$], the place is suffering, and not living up to its immense potential. Question, why does the USA, for example, have such a high GNP? One reason is that the capitalistic society we have allows companies, large and small, to potentially thrive, and it also allows the various individuals within her borders likewise opportunity to pull up their bootstraps, work hard, and given the right conditions, means to make a successful life for themselves and family. However, compare that to what is seen in many African countries - corrupt and/or inept gov'ts. [ok, not getting into debate/discussion herein regarding the corruptness &/or ineptness of the USA's gov't or any other country, G8 or otherwise... ]

How much cash/support has been thrown/given/provided towards this region [yes, altho' Africa is a large continent, filled w/ many different cultures, religions, and areas, I'm using the term Africa in the context to denote those countries germane to this thread] in the past? How much of that actually made it to person living in squander, the ones starving? With that said, I have a hard time believing that either giving more funds or just outright forgiving current/past debts would do much difference - money is just an item; I'm from Missouri, show me the proof, prove to me as a gov't of a people that you are going to be proactive and actually lead your people into a better world, not just squandering chances/money to prop up your cronies and yourself. And, again IMHO, one solution is for them to open up their markets, actually protect property rights, and uphold laws. By creating an environment where wealth [by and of and for the peoples] can be created, then poverty, starvations, and uneducation can be at the least somewhat minimized. I throw in education here, cause the people there also need to be knowledgeable about their conditions, means to improve such, realize that there is possibilities, learn how to improve such, and then be able to sustain whatever progress they can make. Its all about choice, desire, knowledge, possibilities, and education.

Also, if interested in this topic, might check out: http://www.commissionforafrica.org/e...wsstories.html
and
http://www.commerce.uct.ac.za/dpru/d...d_Azarnert.pdf

Now, with all that rubbish above said , will this concert make a difference to the conditions in that region? Maybe... maybe not. However, how do ya know, unless ya try?


And, besides, just in case ya didn't know... Pink Floyd is playing!!! $1200 for roundtrip + hotel... hmmmmmm....

Oh, wait, now just how many of Sally's kids would that sum feed? Well, frick... now I feel guilty/sad...


PS: regarding the skin colour of the performers,,, yea, would be cool if there would be more diversity - however, when will we all be colour blind and not worry about such crud?

[bonzobob999]

Don't know if anybody has mentioned this in this thread, but.................have a look on ebay at the price of these tickets........ebay should ban the sales of these tickets.

Its a great day out and a chance to see some great bands.......yes I'm all for it.

[MSM Hobbes]

Regarding the tix - doesn't the official site say something to the effect of "we don't want you money, just you and your attention to the situation to make the world better place"??? Then, how come there be tickets to purchase, for this supposedly free event???

[bonzobob999]

You can't buy the tickets m8, people txt to a number and if chosen received a txt back saying they had been selected for free tickets.........the ones on ebay are obviously winners who would rather sell them than use them............people are now bidding stupid amounts in an effort to disrupt the sales.
Ebay say its not illegal to sell free tickets allocated for free fund raising events.
Having said that, theres a lot of people making money out of this aid............I seem to remember the last aid effort with reports that even the trucks that carried food disappeared and where sold off.........brand new trucks.

[lighthouse]

When we put our live aid event on in 85 we had a local assistant manager of a bank check all the money as it came in to ensure that it was all accounted for.

Re: Poverty in our own as well as other countries. This is why 2 groups of people walked across the UK in 1999. 1) From Iona in Scotland to London 2) From Holywell in North Wales to Cardiff. Yep - poverty exists in these places as well - although it's nothing like that of the developing world. I guess there are other ways of highlighting and campaigning against poverty, but not being part of the creativity patronage system a 200 mile walk would suffice.

[bonzobob999]

Originally Posted by lighthouse

When we put our event on in 85 we had a local assistant manager of a bank check all the money as it came in to ensure that it was all accounted for.

Good for you but by the time this aid filters down to the needy it becomes very diluted........

[lighthouse]

Agreed - but unless I could afford to accompany the money to the refugee camps in Ethiopia or the Sudan (supervising the purchase of food aid etc along the way) I have no say about it once it left the youth club! We just did what we could at the time.

[bonzobob999]

That is exactly the problem with fundraising on a large scale.

[lighthouse]

Here's Geldofs response to the ticket sales on ebay.....................

Source Reuters.

LONDON (Reuters) - Live 8 organiser Bob Geldof has condemned as "sick profiteering" the sale of charity concert tickets on auction Web site eBay.

Tickets to the star-studded London show, which aims to pressure world leaders into fighting poverty, were given for free to the winners of a text lottery. But they immediately started appearing on eBay for hundreds of pounds.

"I am sick with this," Geldof said in a statement. "What eBay are doing is profiteering on the backs of the impoverished.

"The people who are selling it are wretches. But far worse is the corporate culture which capitalises on people's misery."

Geldof organised the July 2nd concert 20 years after the Live Aid sensation which raised money to help the starving in Ethiopia.

Rather than raise money, the 2005 concert aims to raise the profile of African poverty and influence the G8 group of industrialised nations which meets in Scotland in July.

Four other concerts will be held around the world on the same day.

Performers for the London concert include U2, Paul McCartney, Coldplay, Madonna and REM.

eBay could not be reached for a comment but the Daily Mirror newspaper quoted the company as saying they were selling the tickets because "we live in a free market where people can make up their own minds."

The newspaper said eBay had offered to donate 1 pound for every pair of tickets sold but the singer had rejected this, saying it was not in the "spirit of the event".

Over two million text messages were sent in a bid to get hold of tickets and the winners were notified on Monday.

Pairs of tickets were being offered for several hundreds of pounds on eBay on Tuesday.

I guess it was somehow inevitable - but it doesn't make it right though!

[lighthouse]

The way things look at the moment I might be doing another poverty walk - as a vagrant heading for my old home town. At least I'll end up where I want to be - and probably have for a very long time!

[MSM Hobbes]

Yea, I knew the tix were free - given to the winners of the text msg via phones. But, for example as I live in the US, evidently I could not win via this method; don't really know how to text msg to 84599 from this side of the pond... Another thing, isn't this method of giving tickets away sortof not good for those [albiet very few] people that don't have a cell phone? What of the homeless persons in London that want to see U2 but no cell phone, no text msging. But, yea, they and us here in the states can send a postcard... Lighthouse - whatever's going on, best luck.

[lighthouse]

Thanks MSM. Y'know - if I do, I'm gonna remember doing that walk in 99 and how in 2000 I got totally massacred for it. Now this is gonna be really trendy and billions are going to see it some of the same people are falling over themselves to play it. It's their complete hypocrissy that annoys me. Oh the so called creative economy is only consistant in one thing and that's its inconsistancy! What would I say to them? Get yer bullets out of my back and remember what you did to a guy who made his stand against poverty 6 years ago. Remember what you did to a guy who probably did a lot of other stuff that might well have made a hugely positive difference to some lives before that. Here, have your knife back - it's making my back sore! Ouch

[gjw]

Do you people just comment on these insignificant threads for the sake of increasing your posts number.
Bob Geldof Knew that if he was going to organize a so called FREE concert with a trendy line-up, then people would profit from it. He was banking on that surity to increase the sales of the income from text messages in the U.K.