[steppenwolf]

listenting to radio kiro 710 on net and in seattle ,,this is silly

"Indeed, the land of New Orleans and the surrounding communities was not below sea level when the communities were originally built. Only after the the current levee system was erected in the 1940s and 1950s, and the shipping canal flood walls completed in the mid 1960s, did the area begin to sink precipitiously."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_...on_New_Orleans

[Ciberblade]

New Orleans is not completely destroyed

Sure, there is much damage -- but it is not a total loss.

[steppenwolf]

no not all but id geuss 50% of houses must be bulldozed

a man cals up and says something like " poverty has its advantges and culture too- so rebuild it "

[Ciberblade]

Houses are relatively easy to rebuild....much moreso than large office complexes. There will be years of construction, but will recover better than before...just like TX and CA did

[steppenwolf]

oh sure and do it all again with storms and evacuations all at taxpayers expense ? sick

[steppenwolf]

and insurance companies will insure them all over again time after time?

[hammerbill]

I don't want it rebuilt. I like the idea of rebuilding only in areas that are either above sea level or bringing the land up at least a few feet above sea level and then rebuilding. Too bad we can't make that whole delta into one big landfill for the nation or the area, we'd have it 20 feet higher in no time. Old computers, tires, cars, etc. seems like there is never enough room for garbage anyway.

[metavoyer]

I found this interesting comparitive response to disaster to be both prophetic and illuminating:

THIS STORY HAS BEEN FORMATTED FOR EASY PRINTING


RETHINKING THEIR DEFENSES
Netherlands flood specialists ponder New Orleans' plight
By Molly Moore, Washington Post | September 10, 2005

VROUWENPOLDER, Netherlands -- Each year, thousands of Dutch schoolchildren stand atop the behemoth steel gates that rise above North Sea waters here, listening to the story of the floods that gobbled up the southwestern Netherlands 52 years ago and reshaped the political, environmental, and psychological landscape of their nation.

The way Ted Sluyter tells it, ''The Misery of 1953," as the worst flood in modern Dutch history is known, bears clear parallels to the New Orleans disaster.

''The scientists told us the dikes were too low; we knew they were in bad condition," said Sluyter, who organizes the mandatory school tours of the world's most formidable sea defense system and recounts history with the urgency of a breaking news bulletin. ''The politicians said we needed to spend money on military defenses and reconstruction after World War II. The plans for the dikes went in the fridge."
Now, the country that has been building dikes and battling the sea since the Middle Ages is using the lessons from the New Orleans flood as a political catalyst to reexamine its own flood defenses -- many of which were developed in response to the calamity of a half-century ago.

On Feb. 1, 1953, a high-tide storm breached the famed Dutch dikes in more than 450 places. Nearly 1,900 people died, many as they slept. More than 47,000 homes and other buildings were swept away or splintered in the icy inundation.

''We said, 'Never again,' " said Maarten van der Vlist, a senior adviser for the Dutch Directorate of Transport, Public Works and Water Management, which is responsible for the safety of a nation that is the size of Maryland, but half of which lies at or below sea level.

Dutch politicians followed up with a $3 billion, 30-year program to strengthen the protections. The country built an elaborate network of dikes, man-made islands and a 1 1/2-mile stretch of 62 gates to control the entry and exit of North Sea waters into the country's low-lying southwestern provinces.

But now environmental, engineering, and flood specialists say those defenses might be insufficient. In the 21st century, population growth and climate change caused by global warming have left the country's interior, through which flow the Rhine, Maas, and Schelde rivers, more vulnerable to flooding than ever, they say. High river dikes -- similar to those built in the United States to regulate the Mississippi River -- are now seen more as a contributor to major flooding than a protection against it.

A five-year study due to be published in January is likely to include disturbing new calculations of flood threats to the Netherlands and gaps in the country's readiness, according to specialists and government officials familiar with the findings. Major deficiencies in evacuation plans for the most populous Dutch cities are likely to be outlined in the study.

''Our fear was that it would be hidden," said J. K. Vrijling, a specialist in flooding risk analysis at the Technical University campus in Delft, a town of 17th-century brick rowhouses, picturesque canals, and the country's most sophisticated water research centers. ''New Orleans is a good lesson for us."

Across Europe, the greatest natural threat in the coming years will be flooding, as global warming sends more water gushing through passageways bordered by densely populated areas and overdevelopment, according to many water and engineering experts. The potential for catastrophic devastation and death is so high in so many countries that the European Union is preparing continent-wide guidelines for water management and flood control.

Despite the Netherlands' successes in battling the seas, Vrijling and other specialists said, Dutch politicians often dodged the most controversial issues. A scientist who warned of the high probability of the 1953 floods was prohibited by the government from publishing his direst predictions, which ultimately proved correct.

Although the government conducts an assessment of flood risks and water management every five years, government censors deleted all references to possible death tolls in the 1991 report, according to Vrijling. He said the report, due in January, is expected to include death projections.

The Netherlands' strongest sea defenses were designed to stand up against a storm so strong it would occur only once in 10,000 years. The river levee and dike systems were built to withstand a 1,250-year storm. By comparison, most US abatement programs are designed to withstand floods or storms that would occur statistically every 30 to 100 years.



© Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company



IMO they ought to take the material from the levee system on the Mississippi River and build a 50 foot high levee around most populous New Orleans proper...then let old man river do his silt depositing wet land thing.

NO must be preserved...I cannot live in a world without Mardi Gras . Memories of a friend who walked through the French Quarter during Mardi Gras with a sign draped over his body offering free breast exams ...recieved many respondents. This cultural paradise must not die...HELP...or send money now!!!

[SIR****TMG]

It will SURVIVE...............

[teengeekgrrl]

The parts above sea level can be rebuilt. The most important cultural districts should be raised if nessecary, and rebuilt. The rest should be allowed to fill up and become a wetland.

[sglv]

Originally Posted by teengeekgrrl

The parts above sea level can be rebuilt. The most important cultural districts should be raised if nessecary, and rebuilt. The rest should be allowed to fill up and become a wetland.

I like this idea.

[sglv]

This seems the appropriate place, not sure. The below is an email I received this morning. It is in response to my finding out we have 150 homes/apts. available to Katrina victims and him finding out that there is a 2 year long waiting list for HUD applicants. He was appalled to discover that we are not "taking care of our own."

Hi SGLV, ,

I have discovered an astonishing thing; well, maybe not so astonishing considering the horribly depraved, dilapidated, poor, and unhealthy condition of the City of New Orleans, before Katrina hit.

This "disaster", that people are taking way out of proportion, actually saved lives in New Orleans!!! Consider this: the New Orleans popluation was about 500,000; the death rate of New Orleans was roughly 10 deaths per 1,000 people per annum. This means that, absent the hurricane, one would expect 5,000 deaths per year - or, about 208 deaths over the two week period of time that this "disaster" has been in existance. However, the official death toll for New Orleans stands at 154. Yes, that's right, 154. Not the thousands that CNN, CBS, MSNBC, MoveOn.org, Michael Moore, BBC, or NPR would like you to believe. That plainly means that, as a direct consequnce of hurricane Katrina, 54 lives have been saved.

These are just the facts - no spin. Unfortunately, the federal government feels compelled to step in and spend 300 Billion Dollars over ten years, to help a selected group of poor from New Orleans improve their way of life.

Now here's the spin: The poor of New Orleans should not receive such special treatment when every single state across this country has its own poor to take care of.

Feel free to post this on your loops, if you want. I am curious to see if any other rational person is starting to see this the right way.

R.

[alex_holker]

Stupid server screwing up! I didn't even press "send" the first time!

[hammerbill]

The question that comes to mind for me is that since N.O. is still sinking at a rate of a couple inches a year, how many years ahead do we wish to plan for? How long from now will the city become "just too low" and have to be redone again? Where will the rebuilt sections-even those currently above sea level be in 10, 50 and 100+ years? How low can a city sink (no pun intended to those in the French quarter) as a practical matter?

Another thing to think about would be how effective will the rebuilt city be against another hurricane? How do we know that even a worse one yet is not coming? Is there an effective way to be sufficiently prepared?

It will be hard to convert those areas that have previously been heavily developed into wetlands but it could be done. A lot of dirt would need to be hauled. There will be the matter of removing environmental hazards from the abandoned construction. Moving the city more inland and abandoning most of the delta to wildlife does seem to me to be the wisest long term solution. My guess is that if we tried to do this we would encounter fierce resistance from those who are being forced to "give up their land". It is bound to be pretty valuable real estate even after all this. They will have the nerve to complain about their financial loss even after taxpayers spend a ton of money drying up their property.

[sglv]

Second email:

I was kinda subtle in my email about Katrina deaths, but here is my point: people die everyday; just because a few bodies are being found in thw NO waterways, doesn't mean that anybody did anything wrong; doens't mean there was a slow response; doesn't mean the federal government didn't protect the weak or elderly or sick or homeless. People die everyday due to old age, sickness, disease, accidents, violent crime, drownings, unknown causes, etc. Only in this case, due to the extra special attention on New Orleans during the Katrina situation, LESS people have died.

Thank you Alex, I haven't researched it yet, but the number of dead isn't a final number, and we have no idea the amount of sickness and disease that may be a result of this.