[Ciberblade]

The welfare state mentality is damaging -- but has been fed to us since the 30s...so much that folks 'feel' entitled.

[ekim68]

Yeah, a "Golden Age" of debt.....

[plschwartz]

Originally Posted by Mulder

Linsky, Xico, bassetman, Schwartz, combsdon--need I go on? Hippies--a 60's word for "liberals." They still don't contribute anything of any importance. All they do is whine and complain and rarely is there a rational thought.

Mulder
Proof positive that there is no intelligent design

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Infidel_Kastro

How about when the Hippies got to Washington, it was the beginning of a strong entitlement/welfare system that has gone amok today because these same Hippies decided to "lend your neighbor hand", which really meant that we feel sorry for you, so here's so money instead of making people live up to thier self-worth.
Not everyone will agree, duh, this is CD, just trying to get conversation going.

the hippies got to washington?
i don't think politics was their thing.....perhaps you are confusing hippies with the rise of the sds during the same era, and the institutionalization/commericalization of all things "anti-establisment" by american entrepenurialism.....

this whole thing is really about a confluence of events....middle class kids "dropping out"....the hippies...a smalll thing made big because of....mario savio in berkeley (the free speech movement), the explosion of rock and roll, tech advances which allowed events to be instantly available to all americans via tv, a slew of assassinations, and that little, endless skirmish in vietnam.

but hey, this is america, right?...its gotta be somebodies fault....why not blame the hippies.

[Infidel_Kastro]

Originally Posted by iltos

the hippies got to washington?
i don't think politics was their thing.....perhaps you are confusing hippies with the rise of the sds during the same era, and the institutionalization/commericalization of all things "anti-establisment" by american entrepenurialism.....

this whole thing is really about a confluence of events....middle class kids "dropping out"....the hippies...a smalll thing made big because of....mario savio in berkeley (the free speech movement), the explosion of rock and roll, tech advances which allowed events to be instantly available to all americans via tv, a slew of assassinations, and that little, endless skirmish in vietnam.

but hey, this is america, right?...its gotta be somebodies fault....why not blame the hippies.

Finally, someone is on the right path here. I'm looking at influences during the time and as they got older and were elected to office how the Hippie mentality went with them and the carefree, whimsy influence influenced policies that contributed to the decline in the US.

[Wino]

Originally Posted by Infidel_Kastro

............................................BTW, it is best to determine Presidents being the "best/worst" after they leave office less they lead us into a new Golden Age and then you look stupid for saying something.

I have little faith we are heading into a Golden Age (unless you mean gold as currency) under the tutelage of GWB, nor will history vindicate him..........in the odd offhand chance I am wrong, I will do something Shrub can't do.........admit I was wrong.

The problem with the right, is they haven't had anyone since Lincoln to admire. They continually attempt to make desperate stabs at making gold from corn silk in placing Reagan on a pedestal and George as the messiah.

[Infidel_Kastro]

Originally Posted by Wino

I have little faith we are heading into a Golden Age (unless you mean gold as currency) under the tutelage of GWB, nor will history vindicate him..........in the odd offhand chance I am wrong, I will do something Shrub can't do.........admit I was wrong.

The problem with the right, is they haven't had anyone since Lincoln to admire. They continually attempt to make desperate stabs at making gold from corn silk in placing Reagan on a pedestal and George as the messiah.

I think most of us admired Reagan more than any other Republican president, so your Lincoln theory is shot down.

[lighthouse]

Erm - Folk music didn't originate in Haight Ashbury, Berkley University etc. Folk music originated in whatever country your folk tradition came from. Ireland has a vast collection of songs, reels and jigs going back hundreds of years. English and Scotish folk has a similar tradition, and then there's the Gypsy influence on all of it. Protest has been expressed in song form for centuries (most famously from Celtic countries like Scotland and Ireland). Yeah, Joan Baez and Bob Dylan were the archetypal folky protest singers but that was when Pop culture and Politics met in the new media environment. Dylan was influenced by the country folk of Guthrie etc who in turn was influenced by Irish music.

[iltos]

Originally Posted by Infidel_Kastro

Finally, someone is on the right path here. I'm looking at influences during the time and as they got older and were elected to office how the Hippie mentality went with them and the carefree, whimsy influence influenced policies that contributed to the decline in the US.

but your still not getting it...that carefree whimsy has never been a part of american politics....somebody mentioned the feminist movement...born in the sixties....like it or not, it was all about woman taking some responsibility for their lives....in essence, questioning existing values...questioning "authority"

and that questioning of authority seems to be the one thing that came out of the sixties that has translated into your arguement....

no doubt the hippies were one of the factions that questioned authority....but, like all things american, it was institutionalized for commercial gain, imo...."popularized"

i'd suggest that it is this ubiquitious quality of the american economy, to popularize anything that can turn a profit, that contributed to the acceptance of the "rebellion" against the "establishment" as a phenemona of whimsy

as a economic influence, it has broad implications, methinks, in things like media coverage, which contributes heavily to our general social values...which is one of my points....we are citizens of our economy first, and our goverment second.....

and it coming back to hit us where it hurt....our value system.

[jmwills]

Clinton was NOT a Rhoads Scholar. He was a candidate that never finished the requirements.

[lighthouse]

Hippiedom in San francisco was dead the moment it started getting commercialised in 1967. People started going there just for the Drugs etc at around that time - not really for any altruistic or 'alternative' reasons. Big business began signing up the bands and the drug gangs moved in. It was killed off by money, heroin and squalour and became very seedy as a result. The alternatives disappeared in all the fashion accessories and cliches.

Then there was Altamont...................

Meanwhile, in the UK any notions of "Love and Peace" were somewhat difficult to find amongst all the violence of the Isle of Wight festival.

[plschwartz]

[QUOTE=Infidel_Kastro]Hmm, so GWB is solely responsible for bringing the US down in 6 years? Give me break, atop your whining.

No he had help from the Rebub. majorites in the house and senate. With guys like DeLay and Frist and Hatch.
And Chaney and Rummy.

No he doesn't create cyclones but his rejection of Global warming and increasing the US pollution most probably increased the force of some of them

[Wino]

Originally Posted by Infidel_Kastro

I think most of us admired Reagan more than any other Republican president, so your Lincoln theory is shot down.

You make my point, well..........thank you.

[DiSaidSo]

Good thing we got from hippies: hip huggers.
Bad thing we got from hippies: protesters. Standing on the side of the road or whatever, blocking traffic with a bunch of signs doing a bunch of gd cheers changes nothing. Screaming at people and sitting around where you are NOT supposed to be sitting due to security reasons (SHEEHAN) and then laughing and cheering when you get arrested are unacceptable behaviors.

I suppose the whole free speech movement was a good thing, on the surface. Too bad we're all scared to say anything for fear that we'll offend someone too sensitive to suck it up and admit that everyone's free speech is the same. Which is ideal. Not real. See Mulder's sig.

[DiSaidSo]

Originally Posted by plschwartz

No he doesn't create cyclones but his rejection of Global warming and increasing the US pollution most probably increased the force of some of them

I don't agree with a lot of stuff you say, but I thought you were smarter than that.

Give me a break. In 6 years, the guy has already caused global warming? The Kyoto Protocol was open for signing on December 11, 1997. Hm! That's strange! Three whole years before Bush even got elected! How come Clinton didn't sign it, if it was so darn important???

Also. A happy little nugget from that article I linked to... Kyoto is intended to reduce global warming by the year 2050. So it'll take fifty years for any measurable change to take place. And you think that after six years, the change will be significant enough to increase the force of hurricanes?

God I hate hippies.