[bassetman]

10/24/05
When the Army gets it wrong
Wounded soldiers often--too often--find themselves having to battle the Pentagon over pay mistakes
By Alex Kingsbury and Julian E. Barnes

Having nearly lost his life in Iraq, the 1st Infantry Division soldier became lost to the Army payroll system because of a paperwork snafu as he lay comatose in a veterans hospital near Chicago. As a result, an Army bureaucrat classified him as absent without leave and cut off his pay, as is sometimes done when the system loses track of a soldier. The theory is that a GI wrongly listed as AWOL will start shouting and then the issue can be resolved. "That may work for an able-bodied soldier," says Michael Hurst, a former Army finance officer, "but it doesn't work so well for a guy in a coma in Chicago."

The case of the AWOL grunt in the coma may be particularly egregious, but it exemplifies the widespread problems with an Army pay system that of-ten doesn't get the numbers right. The problems have imposed the greatest hardship on wounded soldiers, who have to battle over financial problems even as they cope with physical ones.

"Significant errors." The thousands of wounded soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan have overwhelmed the Army's aging finance system. An internal audit conducted earlier this year by Hurst, then a captain in an Army finance battalion, showed that 82 percent of the 1st Infantry Division soldiers wounded in Iraq had "significant errors" in their paychecks. Based on his own investigation of 123 wounded 1st Infantry Division soldiers, and another examination of problems with soldiers stationed at Fort Hood, Texas, Hurst estimates in his March 2005 audit that up to 4,000 of the soldiers seriously injured in Iraq have encountered payroll problems.

Congress has already raised concerns about National Guard and Reserve soldiers who have had pay problems, and the House Government Reform Committee plans further hearings this week to examine the military's attempts to improve that pay system. But the audit of the 1st Infantry Division shows that the errors are not confined to reservists. Indeed, the Government Accountability Office, in the wake of the hearings, has expanded an ongoing investigation to include pay problems with active-duty troops.

The problems result in part from the military's reliance on separate finance, medical, and personnel databases. The current system, designed in the 1970s, is so antiquated that sometimes data on a particular soldier must be manually extracted from one database for use in another. The Defense Department is trying to create a combined system, but the project has fallen behind because of the sheer complexity of the task.

...http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/ar.../24wounded.htm

[bassetman]

Where are all the RINOs that claim to support the troops!


*walks out humming "True Colors" *

[Chicon]

Originally Posted by bassetman

Where are all the RINOs that claim to support the troops!


*walks out humming "True Colors" *

It is well known burocrats live on another planet. I guess some of those who are working in the Pentagon are not able to point Iraq on a map.

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by Chicon

It is well known burocrats live on another planet. I guess some of those who are working in the Pentagon are not able to point Iraq on a map.

True, why isn't Rummy "fixing" this!

[Fidelista]

Basset-- Hopefully exposure of this problem to public will build a fire under Govt.
No effort should be spared when it comes to our wounded, pay or anything else needed. It should ALWAYS be first priority. We owe a huge debt to these young people.
This makes me feel a little angry and a lot sad.>f

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

Basset-- Hopefully exposure of this problem to public will build a fire under Govt.
No effort should be spared when it comes to our wounded, pay or anything else needed. It should ALWAYS be first priority. We owe a huge debt to these young people.
This makes me feel a little angry and a lot sad.>f

I feel sad too, but more angry, and I don't get angry easily.

BTW I heard about this first on the show "Over There"

Program beat the news!

[LANMaster]

I agree. This is bull.
These veterans deserve more pay, not less due to bureaucratic screw ups.

[linskyjack]

I can tell you stories about guys I know who came back from Nam and received shoddy treatment from the federal government. This has been going on forever. It should be the first priority of every government that soldiers are given the support they need during the conflict, and just as important when they come home. I don't see this as something new with the Bush administration----this is a long term problem. Having said that, the Bush administration hasn't done enough to remedy these situations. They give lipservice to being pro-military etc, but most of it is pure jingoism.

[sglv]

Originally Posted by bassetman

10/24/05
When the Army gets it wrong
Wounded soldiers often--too often--find themselves having to battle the Pentagon over pay mistakes
By Alex Kingsbury and Julian E. Barnes

Having nearly lost his life in Iraq, the 1st Infantry Division soldier became lost to the Army payroll system because of a paperwork snafu as he lay comatose in a veterans hospital near Chicago. As a result, an Army bureaucrat classified him as absent without leave and cut off his pay, as is sometimes done when the system loses track of a soldier. The theory is that a GI wrongly listed as AWOL will start shouting and then the issue can be resolved. "That may work for an able-bodied soldier," says Michael Hurst, a former Army finance officer, "but it doesn't work so well for a guy in a coma in Chicago."

The case of the AWOL grunt in the coma may be particularly egregious, but it exemplifies the widespread problems with an Army pay system that of-ten doesn't get the numbers right. The problems have imposed the greatest hardship on wounded soldiers, who have to battle over financial problems even as they cope with physical ones.

"Significant errors." The thousands of wounded soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan have overwhelmed the Army's aging finance system. An internal audit conducted earlier this year by Hurst, then a captain in an Army finance battalion, showed that 82 percent of the 1st Infantry Division soldiers wounded in Iraq had "significant errors" in their paychecks. Based on his own investigation of 123 wounded 1st Infantry Division soldiers, and another examination of problems with soldiers stationed at Fort Hood, Texas, Hurst estimates in his March 2005 audit that up to 4,000 of the soldiers seriously injured in Iraq have encountered payroll problems.

Congress has already raised concerns about National Guard and Reserve soldiers who have had pay problems, and the House Government Reform Committee plans further hearings this week to examine the military's attempts to improve that pay system. But the audit of the 1st Infantry Division shows that the errors are not confined to reservists. Indeed, the Government Accountability Office, in the wake of the hearings, has expanded an ongoing investigation to include pay problems with active-duty troops.

The problems result in part from the military's reliance on separate finance, medical, and personnel databases. The current system, designed in the 1970s, is so antiquated that sometimes data on a particular soldier must be manually extracted from one database for use in another. The Defense Department is trying to create a combined system, but the project has fallen behind because of the sheer complexity of the task.

...http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/ar.../24wounded.htm

Bull pucky

I served in 1982-1988 and went from "reserve" status to "active" status on five different occasions. I didn't have problems until they SPLIT the system. JUMPS to JACKS. One is reserve and handled by civilians (don't remember which) and the other WAS handled by military (don't know if that's true now). I did NOT get paid for over 8 months and, at my general's insistence, had to file a congressional complaint (with Senator Cranston) so I could finally get my 8 full months of pay (active duty) because the civilians lost my records. They can't be fired. They don't care. We weren't at war then, and people were NOT being activated. [b]They've had over 20 years to fix this problem[/B]!!! I can guarantee you, if it was a problem in 1983, 1984 - it can only be hundreds of times worse by now.

Disgusting

[sglv]

Originally Posted by bassetman

True, why isn't Rummy "fixing" this!

Rummy doesn't fix things .... he creates them!

[sglv]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

It should be the first priority of every government that soldiers are given the support they need during the conflict, and just as important when they come home. . . . Ithis is a long term problem. Having said that, the Bush administration hasn't done enough to remedy these situations. They give lipservice to being pro-military etc, but most of it is pure jingoism.

Especially our wounded. How much do they have to suffer through just being over there, and to come back and deal with beaurocratic red tape on top of injuries .... awful

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by LANMaster

I agree. This is bull.
These veterans deserve more pay, not less due to bureaucratic screw ups.

Lan, this is why I have hope for you! You have been the only Winger to show up and speak for the toops here!


To the rest of the Wingers!

[Ciberblade]

Originally Posted by bassetman

10/24/05
When the Army gets it wrong
Wounded soldiers often--too often--find themselves having to battle the Pentagon over pay mistakes
By Alex Kingsbury and Julian E. Barnes

Having nearly lost his life in Iraq, the 1st Infantry Division soldier became lost to the Army payroll system because of a paperwork snafu as he lay comatose in a veterans hospital near Chicago. As a result, an Army bureaucrat classified him as absent without leave and cut off his pay, as is sometimes done when the system loses track of a soldier. The theory is that a GI wrongly listed as AWOL will start shouting and then the issue can be resolved. "That may work for an able-bodied soldier," says Michael Hurst, a former Army finance officer, "but it doesn't work so well for a guy in a coma in Chicago."

The case of the AWOL grunt in the coma may be particularly egregious, but it exemplifies the widespread problems with an Army pay system that of-ten doesn't get the numbers right. The problems have imposed the greatest hardship on wounded soldiers, who have to battle over financial problems even as they cope with physical ones.

"Significant errors." The thousands of wounded soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan have overwhelmed the Army's aging finance system. An internal audit conducted earlier this year by Hurst, then a captain in an Army finance battalion, showed that 82 percent of the 1st Infantry Division soldiers wounded in Iraq had "significant errors" in their paychecks. Based on his own investigation of 123 wounded 1st Infantry Division soldiers, and another examination of problems with soldiers stationed at Fort Hood, Texas, Hurst estimates in his March 2005 audit that up to 4,000 of the soldiers seriously injured in Iraq have encountered payroll problems.

Congress has already raised concerns about National Guard and Reserve soldiers who have had pay problems, and the House Government Reform Committee plans further hearings this week to examine the military's attempts to improve that pay system. But the audit of the 1st Infantry Division shows that the errors are not confined to reservists. Indeed, the Government Accountability Office, in the wake of the hearings, has expanded an ongoing investigation to include pay problems with active-duty troops.

The problems result in part from the military's reliance on separate finance, medical, and personnel databases. The current system, designed in the 1970s, is so antiquated that sometimes data on a particular soldier must be manually extracted from one database for use in another. The Defense Department is trying to create a combined system, but the project has fallen behind because of the sheer complexity of the task.

...http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/ar.../24wounded.htm

This is nonsense! What kind of policy just removes pay? One that illustrates a total lack of initiative or concern. This is built from the point of view that the soldier has automatically done wrong, rather than payroll finding out where they went wrong

I understand that there will be problems with any payroll of this size...but to create unnecessary additional problems is ridiculous! And the people who suffer are those who protect us, and their families

[LANMaster]

Originally Posted by bassetman

Lan, this is why I have hope for you! You have been the only Winger to show up and speak for the toops here!


To the rest of the Wingers!

The troops
their mission
their honor
their worth
their families
their integrity
their patriotism
their sacrifice

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by bassetman

I feel sad too, but more angry, and I don't get angry easily.

BTW I heard about this first on the show "Over There"

Program beat the news!

The reason I feel more sad than mad is--- there is long history of this, forgetting what damage has been done.
We just want to move on to the next adventure. >f