[stormylin]

Originally Posted by AcaCandy

Good point Rog. I'd like to see all the pro-lifers who stage their protests in front of abortion clinics to put their name on the adoption list. Either put up or shut up and mind your own business instead of MINE

Better yet, though it is impossible at this stage, I would prefer to see all the prolifers carry the child to term. I'll bet there are a number of them that are complete hypocrits as well. The fact is it is not So simple to think about the potential of a life. Until the child is breathing on their own, they are not an independent life. Though, the person that must carry the life to term is.

Their are many factors that can be involved. There are young teens that if their parents find out they are pregnant they will beat them. As well, a female that finds she is pregnant can be in an abusive relationship and know uncertainly that the situation will escalate once she starts to show signs of pregnancy. I will tell you, I was in this situation. I had to fight for my life because my ex beat me mercilessly because I refused to abort. (And mind you I had a brutal fight when I was 5 months pregnant with this refusal). I was kicked in the stomach and beat with belts almost daily. The details are too difficult to explain how a women can become imprisoned by men like this. But the fact is, it happens all the time. I had the strength to overcome this, though I certainly can't make a judgement for anyone else that they must. The fact is many people aren't strong enough to make a decision that will likely result in death to get out of that situation. I had to come to that point. There are all kinds of factors here that people can't ever understand unless they are walking in that person's boots.


There are numerous incidents that can develop that could cause serious psychological health issues by forcing the mother to bring the unborn child to term. If anyone of us was in a situation where our 9 or 10 year old child was pregnant, I'll bet even these prolifers would choose to terminate that pregnancy. So, the choice of which person to spare must be with the person that is certainly alive. There is never a guarentee that a fetus will live on it's own. It doesn't even make sense that someone must be forced to be subjected to all of the psychological issues that are involved with carrying a fetus to term- when there will never be a promise that a fetus will be 100% certain to live.

The only person that can decide if they have the courage and psychological strength to carry a child to term and then give that child up is the person who is directly affected as well in many cases the family. As you state Aca it is nobodies business but theirs.

It is just not so simple to say a fetus has a right to live. The person that is living a breathing comes first and it should never be any different.

[stormylin]

Originally Posted by Mulder

Don't feel bad--there are not many women who can!

I walked right into that one I better learn to choose my words more carefully!!

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by AcaCandy

Good point Rog. I'd like to see all the pro-lifers who stage their protests in front of abortion clinics to put their name on the adoption list. Either put up or shut up and mind your own business instead of MINE

Problem is that some right to lifers still don't see these adopted childrenas "legit" members of a family!

Good link Ang!

[stormylin]

Btw, case in point the Peterson case. I can bet you anything that Scott Peterson was one of these animals that felt trapped by Laci's pregnancy and that is why she was brutally murdered. And you can't always see this person has this potential because many times they don't become extremely violent until the signs of pregnancy show. I have 3 children, and every single time, the beating started once I started to show. Believe me, I didn't stay because I wanted to. These kind of guys want you barefoot and pregnant. You can't get a job when you are showing sure signs of pregnancy. So, you are TRAPPED!! Right where they want you!! And though, I would never have it any other way (that is have all three of my children) in this most horrible situation, I became pregnant right after my first child was born. Believe me he wasn't taking no for an answer. So, now what do you do when you have two babies? Not factoring the risk to your life when you get the courage to get out, how are you going to get employment that will support two small children And pay for childcare? More often then not, these kind of scum bags make sure they have employment that you can never get a dime of in a court to support the children. I will spare you the gorry details of how I fought for my life to get out, but this took me years. Like I said, not everyone has this type of fight in them to get out. And people in this situation certainly can and do end up like Laci Peterson. If she had known what her destiny would be- and if she felt she must choose to terminate the pregnancy- how is it that anyone else could make that choice for her?

[Mulderator]

Originally Posted by stormylin

I walked right into that one

Walked in backwards!

[stormylin]

Originally Posted by Mulder

Walked in backwards!

Yea, story of my life

[sglv]

Originally Posted by Rollin' Rog

Personally I'm a bit of a pro-lifer to this extent: if someone of proved desire and ability is willing to register as a potential adoptive parent for an unborn child -- sight unseen -- I would say that child should be brought to term. What the "pro-lifers" do not seem to recognize is that it is not respect for human life to bring one into this world absent the love and warmth it needs for healthy development.

I take this a bit further actually. If you truly believe in this cause so much, then while you're out there calling these women murderers and whores, offer them love and kindness - a place to stay, assist them with getting their education, open up your home to them and the new baby to stay until they can get on their own two feet and properly take care of a baby - basically, put your home/money where your mouth is. Some will accept it, some may spit in your face, but don't demand they not do it and then just walk away.

Like I've said before, I don't think abortion should be used as birth control, as in multiple abortions, and I think that if the baby has reached the point that it is capable of living outside the womb - that's a shame, otherwise . . . .

[sglv]

Originally Posted by stormylin

I will tell you, I was in this situation. I had to fight for my life because my ex beat me mercilessly because I refused to abort. (And mind you I had a brutal fight when I was 5 months pregnant with this refusal). I was kicked in the stomach and beat with belts almost daily. The details are too difficult to explain how a women can become imprisoned by men like this.

I'm sorry to hear this Stormy. I was in an abusive relationship once and I was NOT pregnant. I don't know if I would have been able to cope if I became pregnant. I knew many girls who were basically forced to have abortions - between the boyfriend demanding it and family planning telling them it would be best for them - every one of them regretted it. I know one of them is one of the protesting pro-lifers out there and I understand her reasons, but disagree with the method. I decided long ago that if my daughter became pregnant (I hope not), the first thing I would do (after locking her dad in the bedroom) would be to ask her what she wanted to do. Dad would NOT feel this way, I'd probably have to take him away for a week so he didn't kill the boy and give him time to adjust. I would be devastated if she really wanted an abortion, but would not oppose it. I watched many of my friends get kicked out of home, called horrible names by their parents, and watched boyfriends tell them they were on their own. I just can't imagine doing that to my daughter.

[stormylin]

Originally Posted by sglv

I'm sorry to hear this Stormy. I was in an abusive relationship once and I was NOT pregnant. I don't know if I would have been able to cope if I became pregnant. I knew many girls who were basically forced to have abortions - between the boyfriend demanding it and family planning telling them it would be best for them - every one of them regretted it. I know one of them is one of the protesting pro-lifers out there and I understand her reasons, but disagree with the method. I decided long ago that if my daughter became pregnant (I hope not), the first thing I would do (after locking her dad in the bedroom) would be to ask her what she wanted to do. Dad would NOT feel this way, I'd probably have to take him away for a week so he didn't kill the boy and give him time to adjust. I would be devastated if she really wanted an abortion, but would not oppose it. I watched many of my friends get kicked out of home, called horrible names by their parents, and watched boyfriends tell them they were on their own. I just can't imagine doing that to my daughter.

Thank you for your kind sentiments SGLV!! My choice under really bad circumstances was to not do it. I have three GREAT children so nothing to be sorry for

And I am very glad that you got out of the abusive relationship that you were in. I think this is much more common then people will ever talk about. Though, this is a serious factor in who decides what for whom!!

I just know, certainly that I can't choose for someone else. I have been in maybe the most extreme situation.

LOL about your husband. Maybe that is not a bad idea- these guys need to be accountable. But I appreciate very much that you are nurturing and Care what is best for your daughter. Noone can make that decision but the person that is most affected by it. I Hope that most of us believe this for our own children at the very minimum.

I met a strong women once that had five children. She dearly loved her family. I believe more then anyone I have EVER met, she loved her children more then anything. She was 5 months pregnant and was told if she completed her pregnancy she would have died. She couldn't take the mother away of the 5 children she so dearly loved. She was so very distraught with her choice. This is extremely personal. And how can we choose for her family that the other 5 children would loose their mother???

I applaud you SGLV, these are Very Personal decisions. What is right for your family, and I think you display that we all care for our family much more then gov. ever will........should Always be your family's choice.

I realize that women make choices that they wished they never did. But........ at the time in their life, I can't judge their strength, not everyone has a great Mom like you SG. If we had a perfect world, then maybe we can all make this judgement. Until then............ We are all just people with very specific life issues.

[linskyjack]

This is a personal decision--very complex and difficult---Prohibition isn't the answer. Within general guidlines, each person must make the decision themselves.

[stormylin]

Originally Posted by sglv

I take this a bit further actually. If you truly believe in this cause so much, then while you're out there calling these women murderers and whores, offer them love and kindness - a place to stay, assist them with getting their education, open up your home to them and the new baby to stay until they can get on their own two feet and properly take care of a baby - basically, put your home/money where your mouth is. Some will accept it, some may spit in your face, but don't demand they not do it and then just walk away.

Like I've said before, I don't think abortion should be used as birth control, as in multiple abortions, and I think that if the baby has reached the point that it is capable of living outside the womb - that's a shame, otherwise . . . .

Great response SG!! I think you have a fantastic idea here. We can set up a list of all of these prolifers that want to put their name on the contract to take in these mothers... bring the child to term and nurture them both until they have more choices affrorded to them. My suspicion is that pretty quick, I'll bet my life their pens will run out of ink!!

[sglv]

Originally Posted by stormylin

She was 5 months pregnant and was told if she completed her pregnancy she would have died. She couldn't take the mother away of the 5 children she so dearly loved.

My sister came very close to dying in her last pregnancy and was told not to go through with it. Her previous pregnancy was very difficult for her as well and she spent a lot of time in the hospital. She chose to take the chance and Joshua is a great little man. She was in the hospital for a month after he was born. However, she chose to have her tubes tied b/c she knew she would not survive a fourth child. Personally, I'm not sure I would have chosen to have Josh b/c the risk was so great, but the results for her came out o.k. and I'm glad.

Originally Posted by stormylin

not everyone has a great Mom like you SG.

How I wish! My 13 year old daughter thinks I'm the worst mother in the world - 18 is a long way away

[stormylin]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

This is a personal decision--very complex and difficult---Prohibition isn't the answer. Within general guidlines, each person must make the decision themselves.

Exactly Linskyjack. This topic is Extremely Personal. And prohibition has never worked. I hate to compare this to the drug wars, but take a look! How many billions have been spent in attempting to make a choice for someone else, and it was all p-- in the wind!! Do drug wars aka prohibition work?!!! Please!!! I know too many people, little kids in my town that have died from Heroine drug overdose after gov put in billions to susposedly 'protect us all from this'!!!!!!!!!!!.


Prohibition didn't work in the 30's with alcohol. Prohibition will Never work with drugs, it won't work with cigarettes, and more then anything it will NEVER work with a personal family decision.

Anyone that believes that it will, is clear Out Of Their Mind. They must have access to better stuff then most people do!!

[sglv]

Originally Posted by stormylin

I'll bet my life their pens will run out of ink!!

I know they would. I had to go through one of those demonstrations with a friend of mine and this woman was screaming at how she was a murderer and was going to hell, it was awful - I asked the woman if she was willing to take this girl in and help support her over the next several months or year to get back on her feet, since her boyfriend dumped her and her parents won't let her come home (she was 17). She didn't want the abortion, she just had nowhere to turn, was she willing to help? The woman shut up real quick. That's where my thoughts come from, that hell we went through just to get her through the front doors of the clinic.

[stormylin]

Originally Posted by sglv

My sister came very close to dying in her last pregnancy and was told not to go through with it. Her previous pregnancy was very difficult for her as well and she spent a lot of time in the hospital. She chose to take the chance and Joshua is a great little man. She was in the hospital for a month after he was born. However, she chose to have her tubes tied b/c she knew she would not survive a fourth child. Personally, I'm not sure I would have chosen to have Josh b/c the risk was so great, but the results for her came out o.k. and I'm glad.

SG, you are doing a great job!!!! I am pretty good at understanding people, and you are a great listener. I Survived all of my kids somehow!! None of my kids became drug attacks, in abusive relationships, and Thankfully none of them have had teen pregnacies. So, my youngest just turned 19, I still sweat it out. But he has a great head on his shoulders!!

Keep talking to your daughter SG, that does work in the end. You have a lot of influence even if you can't see that for a minute now He He!! Been There!! My kids everyone one of them Hated me at 13!! It wasn't funny then, but they are all great now. So, I can laugh. Stay determined and committed. Then when she is 22 or 23 like my adult children are, she will have the utmost respect for everything she Hates You for now That is the way it works unfortunately.

I applaud your sister and I am happy that it worked out that she and Joshua are great today. I agree with you........if I had to face a potentially fatal pregnancy with a fourth child....... I don't think I would have made the same choice your sister did. My kids Needed me!! There is so very much to these very personal decisions then a removed activist can ever understand.

Thanks for sharing your inspiring personal story.

Women don't use their voice enough. It is high time we hear both sides of the story!!





How I wish! My 13 year old daughter thinks I'm the worst mother in the world - 18 is a long way away