[oldie]

Of civil war in my opinion. Time to bring home our troops? ... just a few months ago I would never have considered such a thread. Now, however, I'm having second thoughts about our staying the course ... in a country where the newly elected government appears to be powerless in maintaining any resemblance of law and order. Where the clerics are pouring oil on troubled waters etc etc

Regards - Oldie

[cristobal03]

I think it's disgraceful that we've put them in this position. By "them" I mean both our military personnel and the Iraqis. I was all for withdrawal before, but now I think it would be to the US's everlasting shame if we pulled out. It's our fault they're fighting. We can't just leave; it's our responsibility to fix this. "Mission accomplished," indeed.

chris.

[edit]
I do, however, think it's time for a shift in operations; tone down actions against the insurgency and increase restructuring efforts. Repair infrastructure and damaged buildings. Build schools, hospitals, and other public works. I'm not saying completely ignore defense, but we can't just stand by the justification "We removed Hussein" anymore. We need to start providing some other visible benefit to this nation to which we've promised great things. We owe it to the world, in my opinion.
[/edit]

[Chicon]

Originally Posted by cristobal03

I think it's disgraceful that we've put them in this position. By "them" I mean both our military personnel and the Iraqis. I was all for withdrawal before, but now I think it would be to the US's everlasting shame if we pulled out. It's our fault they're fighting. We can't just leave; it's our responsibility to fix this. "Mission accomplished," indeed.

chris.

[oldie]

Originally Posted by cristobal03

now I think it would be to the US's everlasting shame if we pulled out.

And the 80.000 British troops. Plus the Polish, the Italians etc etc Chris ... yes? There is a coalition force in Iraq young chap

Regards - Oldie

[Wino]

Pride, face or shame kept us in Vietnam way past a time to go. Bush got us into this mess, he needs to get us out before he leaves office. I'm still on the fence whether to leave or stay, but as the civil unrest seems to be heading to civil war, leaning way over to getting our troops the hell out.

[ChrisJones]

Originally Posted by cristobal03

I think it's disgraceful that we've put them in this position. By "them" I mean both our military personnel and the Iraqis. I was all for withdrawal before, but now I think it would be to the US's everlasting shame if we pulled out. It's our fault they're fighting. We can't just leave; it's our responsibility to fix this. "Mission accomplished," indeed.

chris.

[edit]
I do, however, think it's time for a shift in operations; tone down actions against the insurgency and increase restructuring efforts. Repair infrastructure and damaged buildings. Build schools, hospitals, and other public works. I'm not saying completely ignore defense, but we can't just stand by the justification "We removed Hussein" anymore. We need to start providing some other visible benefit to this nation to which we've promised great things. We owe it to the world, in my opinion.
[/edit]

Hey Chris,

Interesting post and I'd agree that we need to start showing a more visible reason for our presence there. However if we took our troop's attentions away from the insurgency to rebuilding I fear things would get much, much worse. It's a sad fact that currently in the south, insurgents are blowing up the infrastructure as quick as the Royal Engineers can fix it.

This is one thing that really peeves me off about the "insurgency" if they'd just leave us alone to get on with it, the situation would be miles better already, and who knows, maybe the numbers of our troops would be dratically reduced already. In this respects I am loosing my sympathy with the Iraqi people. I realise that insurgents make up just a very small percentage of the population however it's the support they recieve from the population at large that lets them continue. These people have to sleep, eat, one would assume pray, and generally live somewhere and it is the communities that are turning a blind eye that are really doing the damage. They're cutting off their collective nose to spite their face.

[cristobal03]

I realize there are other nations involved in Iraq. Would they be there if we weren't? I seriously doubt it. Therefore, the onus is still on America. In my opinion it always has been and always will be. So, we messed up. It's like I tell my nieces: you have to clean up your mess before you can go home and rest. It's a fundamental part of responsible action.

chris.

[cristobal03]

[bump]

Regardless, I don't think the administration has the capacity to sponsor a withdrawal after all the promises President Bush has made about "staying the course," or whatever phrase he used.

chris.

[Rep]

We must remember how we were led into Iraq. We must remember the rehetoric used, when and for what purpose it was used and who gained power because of it.

Once we understand that, we will understand the purpose of why we attacked a country that had not attacked us.

More importantly, we will begin to see the infrastructure of the power base of our nation. Only then can we begin to make the adjustments to begin dealing with a long list of issues that are being ignored by those that hold the power.

The power of this president runs very deep. He controls the party that controls all aspects of our nation. He controls much of what happens in our states and local governments.

His policies effect our daily lives. Much of our future whether it is economic, environmental, world politics, security is driven by what he does on a whim.

How long can this go on? It is time to put partisanship aside and begin to develop the partnerships to secure our nation and our democracy.

[Stoner]

I think it's disgraceful that we've put them in this position. By "them" I mean both our military personnel and the Iraqis. ......................., but now I think it would be to the US's everlasting shame if we pulled out. It's our fault they're fighting. We can't just leave; it's our responsibility to fix this. "Mission accomplished," indeed.

Agreed.

[izme]

Originally Posted by Rep

We must remember how we were led into Iraq. We must remember the rehetoric used, when and for what purpose it was used and who gained power because of it.

Once we understand that, we will understand the purpose of why we attacked a country that had not attacked us.

More importantly, we will begin to see the infrastructure of the power base of our nation. Only then can we begin to make the adjustments to begin dealing with a long list of issues that are being ignored by those that hold the power.

The power of this president runs very deep. He controls the party that controls all aspects of our nation. He controls much of what happens in our states and local governments.

His policies effect our daily lives. Much of our future whether it is economic, environmental, world politics, security is driven by what he does on a whim.

How long can this go on? It is time to put partisanship aside and begin to develop the partnerships to secure our nation and our democracy.

Very good

[Stoner]

But that doesn't lead to a conclusion, it's just political rhetoric, IMO.

[poochee]

Originally Posted by Rep

We must remember how we were led into Iraq. We must remember the rehetoric used, when and for what purpose it was used and who gained power because of it.

Once we understand that, we will understand the purpose of why we attacked a country that had not attacked us.

More importantly, we will begin to see the infrastructure of the power base of our nation. Only then can we begin to make the adjustments to begin dealing with a long list of issues that are being ignored by those that hold the power.

The power of this president runs very deep. He controls the party that controls all aspects of our nation. He controls much of what happens in our states and local governments.

His policies effect our daily lives. Much of our future whether it is economic, environmental, world politics, security is driven by what he does on a whim.

How long can this go on? It is time to put partisanship aside and begin to develop the partnerships to secure our nation and our democracy.

[nomaan]

the problem is, that by leaving Iraq in a mess, it will make future plans for pre-emptive attacks even harder for the US (Bush Admin). all the recent uptick in news about Iran and Nukes, is very similar to what was happening with Iraq and its WMDs a year or two before the war (attack).

the newcons won't let this hurt their plan/ambitions, and it just might force them to stick it out in Iraq.

the only ones who can force this are the voters in the US. if they vote republican again (and get another neocon in), then i say this will continue even longer, and will culminate with an attack on Iran. 4 more years is enough time to drum up enough support to go into iraq.

[oldie]

Originally Posted by cristobal03

I realize there are other nations involved in Iraq. Would they be there if we weren't? I seriously doubt it. Therefore, the onus is still on America. In my opinion it always has been and always will be. So, we messed up. It's like I tell my nieces: you have to clean up your mess before you can go home and rest. It's a fundamental part of responsible action.

chris.

Good common sense post young chap