[Rep]

After the deaths of 2,287 American deaths in Iraq and 16,653 wounded to date. (2/24/06), those that shouted us to Iraq are having sencond thought.

It may be a combination of a number of factors that lead these to finally understand. But it is welcomed by those of us that knew from the beginning that this was not a war America shold engage.

Was it the lack of weapons of mass desruction?
Was it the toll in American death, wounded and treasure?
Was it Iraqs civil war?
Was it the isolatoin of so many of the worlds countries?
Was it the withdrawal of so many of our, "allies"?

Who knows why?

But this thread is set up to simply offer this community information on those that assisted the administration in the shout to war and their change of heart.

It is time for Americans to join together and reject the forces of power that led us to Iraq. We need other leadership, leaders that can begin to reestablish America as a country and nation of greatness.

Always remember that the powers that led us run deep. the infrastructure of the far, extreme conservative right now dominating the White House, U.S. Senate and U.S. House extends to your statehouses.

Please post here any items that indicate people once promoting the shout to war having a change of heart.

William F. Buckley anybody?

[f1_champ]

Originally Posted by Rep

It is time for Americans to join together and reject the forces of power that led us to Iraq. We need other leadership, leaders that can begin to reestablish America as a country and nation of greatness.

Always remember that the powers that led us run deep. the infrastructure of the far, extreme conservative right now dominating the White House, U.S. Senate and U.S. House extends to your statehouses.

A story comes to my mind---------

Once upon a time there were a Peacock and Bull on the same Farm. The Peacock admired all the other birds flying high in the sky and sitting on the tallest branches.
The Peacock beckame very depressed, so the Bull asked him: "What's the matter Peacock? Why so depressed?"
The Peacock replied: "It depresses me that all the other birds fly so high and sit on the tallest branches. How I would love to sit at the top of that Tall tree next to the river."
After a moment the Bull said: "Well Peacock, I might have a solution?"
Expectantly the Peacock urged: "And that is?"
"Well Peacock, you know my Bull dung is rich in vitamins, I figured that if you eat some of it everyday you might become strong enough to fly up to the top of that tall tree next to the river."
"Good idea," the Peacock thought. "Thank you Bull."
So the Peacock wandered off eating little bit of the Bull's dung every day. So after a week the Peacock decided to test his flight. flying flying, higher, faster he managed to get to the 3rd Branch.
"NOT BAD!" the Peacock thought.
He'd never been able to fly this high ever in his life. So on it went. Week 2 he made it up to branch 7, week 3 branch 13 was in reach and week 4 he made it to branch 19.
"Beautiful!" the Peacock thought. "No more than one week left for sure".
So at the end of week 5 of Bull's dung he eventually made it to the top. Sitting on the highest branch on the tall tree next to the river, he admired the fantastic few from up there, silently swearing to himself never to come down again. Not far away however a group of Hunters spotted the Peacock in the top if the tree.
"Wow. Look at that huge colourfull waterbird in the top of that tree," one hunter mistakenly remarked.
"My turn to shoot," another hunter grunted.
Aiming his deadly long Rifle at the Peacock the shot went of: Loud but swift. Like a rainbowrock the Peacock plunged down to the ground - dead.

The moral of the story: Bullsh!t can get you to the top but it certainly cannot keep you there.

So the republicans have reached the top but their BS is not gonna help them stay there

[poochee]

f1 Champ...good one!

[xico]

Very good, F1!

[xico]

Buckley? Did some ask for a quote from Buckley?

Here, I just happen to have one handy.

William F. Buckley, godfather of the conservative movement calls for "acknowledgment of defeat" in Iraq:

"One can't doubt that the American objective in Iraq Has Failed"


BuzzFLash http://www.buzzflash.com/

[bassetman]

The Reich is crumbling!

I]t was a very, very bad move for the president to come out and threaten a veto of any congressional action on the matter. By being so aggressive — and by accusing those with trepidations about the deal of being unfair to Muslims — Bush demonstrated a surprising unwillingness to examine the political consequences of his actions.

No Republican politician is going to commit career suicide simply because the president asks him to. In 2002, his politically brilliant handling of the homeland-security issue won the Senate back for his party. In 2006, he came out of the White House and essentially demanded that Republicans on Capitol Hill fall in line on a matter that is far too complicated for him or them to explain — and risk his party's majorities in the House and Senate.

Not gonna happen. Only hours after Bush made his veto threat, the Republican leader of the Senate, Bill Frist, went on Hugh Hewitt's nationally syndicated radio show and said the votes would be there to override Bush's veto.

[xico]

It's like a breath of fresh air! Thanks, B'man. You saved my week-end!

[bassetman]

Yw! :d

[Rep]

Originally Posted by bassetman

The Reich is crumbling!

I]t was a very, very bad move for the president to come out and threaten a veto of any congressional action on the matter. By being so aggressive — and by accusing those with trepidations about the deal of being unfair to Muslims — Bush demonstrated a surprising unwillingness to examine the political consequences of his actions.

No Republican politician is going to commit career suicide simply because the president asks him to. In 2002, his politically brilliant handling of the homeland-security issue won the Senate back for his party. In 2006, he came out of the White House and essentially demanded that Republicans on Capitol Hill fall in line on a matter that is far too complicated for him or them to explain — and risk his party's majorities in the House and Senate.

Not gonna happen. Only hours after Bush made his veto threat, the Republican leader of the Senate, Bill Frist, went on Hugh Hewitt's nationally syndicated radio show and said the votes would be there to override Bush's veto.

The President's weakness is showing. The American people are beginning to understand that one of the reasons we liked him, his, "taking a stand" and not backing down is actually weakness.

Now, before people here begin to complain that I celebrate the President's weakness, that is not true.

He has some years left to his term. Although most president's enter a lame duck period, his is sooner than most. My concern as a person that loves his country is this will have an impact on both domestic and international policies. No, I do not want him to be percieved as the weak man he is. I just simply want the damage he is doing to be contained.

[Davey7549]

Sometimes what is said here amazes me and other times it is so predictable!
I this case as many recently in the past predictability has won hands down.

Here are my thoughts in a nutshell.........
1) The reason to attack and remove Sudam were legitimate as was the concern of most Western Nations that he possessed WMD.
2) Bush had the support of most all to act upon this intelligence presented at the time.
3) Since Bushes last re-election it has become blatantly apparent that the press and many on the left have slanted all war coverage to only the bad.
4) Much of what is happening in the mid-east as far as bombings and destruction is being done by extreme radicals many of which have Al-Quida ties.
5) The image of Islam in the US is now at its lowest point because of their inaction responding to terrorists and amplified by the negativity of our press.
6) Bush has been wrong on several points over the years but he has been advised correctly on many others IMO.
7) His stand on having an Arab Nation run our ports in any capacity is not a good choice at this time since many believe Arabs cannot be trusted.

This is all very sad since our soldiers are the ones stuck in the middle of all this politically incited frass. We owe our soldiers our unconditional support!
Period, end of story!!!
If we cannot unite behind them, support them, and stop the political bickering going on then we as a Nation do not deserve to exist. I know some here will jump all over me for stating my opinion but what I see is another occurence of the Vietnam mess hatching.
Oh I am sure many have valid points, and many have deep rooted desires to end this conflict soon but that will not happen and wee all know it. If we all sit around assigning blame as is happening nothing will become of this war on terrorism other than the destruction of our beloved country.
Are you all ready to pick up arms and fight to protect your families on our own turf? Hope you are since that day will come if we do not unite!
Hope you find it easy to pull that trigger when another human is in your sights......

Dave

[xico]

The neo-cons would have everyone believe that if we aren't one hundred percent behind whatever their agenda is that we're against the Pres ppersonally and against the country and against the people. I'm quite anti-government policies, especially the policies that are screwing the people, including wars. But the neo cons like to frame the argument, like do you support the troops, in such a way that distorts what they're really doing. Everyone supports the troops. No one wants to see their kids or their neighbors come back in a box or a wheel chair. But what we oppose is the foreign policiy that puts the troops in an unnecessarily dangerous position so that some one can make a fast buck.

We're really in a war of words, a war of distortions, of, as someone in the administration said, dealing with people who think they are "creating reality," another very real and dangerous misnomer. We're dealing with proverbial liars, who probably believe that if they keep repeating their lies, reality and truth will vanish, and what they say will become Truth. I must say they've been rather successful at fooling half the country, but ultimately even the dullest fool will come to the conclusion that it just ain't the way they've been saying it is.

[Davey7549]

Originally Posted by xico

The neo-cons would have everyone believe that if we aren't one hundred percent behind whatever their agenda is that we're against the Pres ppersonally and against the country and against the people. I'm quite anti-government policies, especially the policies that are screwing the people, including wars. But the neo cons like to frame the argument, like do you support the troops, in such a way that distorts what they're really doing. Everyone supports the troops. No one wants to see their kids or their neighbors come back in a box or a wheel chair. But what we oppose is the foreign policiy that puts the troops in an unnecessarily dangerous position so that some one can make a fast buck.

We're really in a war of words, a war of distortions, of, as someone in the administration said, dealing with people who think they are "creating reality," another very real and dangerous misnomer. We're dealing with proverbial liars, who probably believe that if they keep repeating their lies, reality and truth will vanish, and what they say will become Truth. I must say they've been rather successful at fooling half the country, but ultimately even the dullest fool will come to the conclusion that it just ain't the way they've been saying it is.

Maybe so Xico but until that time we must support what is now presented to us in Iraq and not turn tail and run! The running may end up being in your own back yard.....

Dave

[xico]

Originally Posted by Davey7549

Sometimes what is said here amazes me and other times it is so predictable!
I this case as many recently in the past predictability has won hands down.

Here are my thoughts in a nutshell.........
1) The reason to attack and remove Sudam were legitimate as was the concern of most Western Nations that he possessed WMD.
2) Bush had the support of most all to act upon this intelligence presented at the time.
3) Since Bushes last re-election it has become blatantly apparent that the press and many on the left have slanted all war coverage to only the bad.
4) Much of what is happening in the mid-east as far as bombings and destruction is being done by extreme radicals many of which have Al-Quida ties.
5) The image of Islam in the US is now at its lowest point because of their inaction responding to terrorists and amplified by the negativity of our press.
6) Bush has been wrong on several points over the years but he has been advised correctly on many others IMO.
7) His stand on having an Arab Nation run our ports in any capacity is not a good choice at this time since many believe Arabs cannot be trusted.

This is all very sad since our soldiers are the ones stuck in the middle of all this politically incited frass. We owe our soldiers our unconditional support!
Period, end of story!!!
If we cannot unite behind them, support them, and stop the political bickering going on then we as a Nation do not deserve to exist. I know some here will jump all over me for stating my opinion but what I see is another occurence of the Vietnam mess hatching.
Oh I am sure many have valid points, and many have deep rooted desires to end this conflict soon but that will not happen and wee all know it. If we all sit around assigning blame as is happening nothing will become of this war on terrorism other than the destruction of our beloved country.
Are you all ready to pick up arms and fight to protect your families on our own turf? Hope you are since that day will come if we do not unite!
Hope you find it easy to pull that trigger when another human is in your sights......

Dave

Dave, haven't you read that the Administration decided to attack Saddam before 911 and that they manipulated the intelligence to "fit the policy?"

No, he didn't have the support of almost all. Buchanan and his father were opposed to attacking Iraq because they knew it would create an absolute mess--and it did.

Dave, no one is slanting anything. That's the reality of what's happening. How is it that we can't train Iraqis in 3 years when we can train our own soldiers in 3 months, and have trained countless other soldiers in 3 months time? Something is going on that your missing.

Before the invasion there were no Al Q ties. So, we've been helping Al Q to organize and train terrorists?

Dave, Saddam was never a threat to the US. And no one is invading the US. (Except maybe thge Mexicans, but they're looking for jobs, not military targets). Think about it.
The Gov can't even win the drug war, how do you think a hand full of guys is going to invade our country? Think about it. The cops have a hard enough time maintaining order, and you think a handful of Muslims are going to take us over?

Personally I think Bush has been consistently opposed to the welfare of the average American. He's even cutting the medical benefits of our retired soldiers, and he's screwing the seniors in favor of the pharmaceuticals, the people in favor of the polluters, etc.

It's not a matter of left-right, it's a matter of the powerful becoming inordinately powerful, of the President over riding Congress and the Courts, and of shredding the Bill of Rights, and it's a matter of common sense. We need all three branches of government
in balance. I call that harmony, and I like the Bill of Rights, and I don't like spying and lying.

Hope I didn't offend you.

[xico]

Originally Posted by Davey7549

Maybe so Xico but until that time we must support what is now presented to us in Iraq and not turn tail and run! The running may end up being in your own back yard.....

Dave

That's what they said during Vietnam, and it simply ain't true--and now we're doing business with the dang communists in Vietnam just like we wuz old friends.

These are wars of colonial aggression, big business interests looking for resources and markets. Read Bernard Fall's Vietnam. What an eye opener.

[linskyjack]

Dave has a very slanted view of Iraq---seems like a repeat of the weekly Newmax/Limbaugh/Hannity nexus.

1. The reason to attack Sadaam was not legitmate-and did't have the support of most of the world. The intelligence was cherrypicked.
2. Bush has the support of most because he lied to us---He certainly didn't have the support of most of the world.
3. Reporters can barely move in Iraq--its that dangerous----If you want to deny that Iraq is in a state of chaos--then fine---but don't blame it on the media etc.
4. Correct---does that come as a surprise? I dont get the point--Maybe we should invade Syria, the Territories, Saudi Arabia etc.
5. I agree--
6. Whats the point--Bush like anyone else is right some of the time and wrong some of the time--I don't get why this is a talking point.
7. We agree

The way to support the troops is to get them home yesterday. Anything else is utter denial of the reality of the situation.