[ekim68]

She's got a point...
http://www.wired.com/news/technology...l?tw=rss.index

[DublHelix]

From what I have heard, RFID chips may be included in the proposed UK ID Cards due in 2008. The theory being that police officers with special readers could scan a crowd at a busy airport, train station, etc and check who is present.

Hopefully criminals who are on the run, will be obliging enough to card their cards to aid apprehension

Though according to a friend, 20 seconds in a m/wave oven, and the RFID is useless.

[bassetman]

Just ask any Jew who has a tatoo of a their #!

[iltos]

i'm not real big on the religious 'end times' component of her arguement, but i like the contention that this is another step towards complete control...so i found this interesting....from the article

If the VeriChip becomes a common payment device similar to the "contactless" payment system in the Exxon Mobil Speedpass, all who wish to buy and sell goods will be compelled "to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads," as it says in Revelation, the Spychips Threat authors contend.

Another passage in Revelation describes a vision in which "a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image."

since this whole thing is about big business and authority knowing a whole lot more about us that we know about them, it might be a good idea to take a good long look at who the beast might really be, and what its image actually is....

the devil, imo, is just so much garbage....as is any one individual

[katonca]

Originally Posted by iltos

the devil, imo, is just so much garbage....as is any one individual

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[iltos]

Originally Posted by katonca

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mornin, katonca

well...i'm assuming the mark of the beast is the devil....and you know that particular belief is not a part of my mindset....

it was just my attempt to support this woman's arguement, and offer up a thought that the beast and its image may have nothing to do with any religious belief whatsoever.....

it wasn't my attempt at a put down....my apologies if it came off that way.

[katonca]

Originally Posted by iltos

mornin, katonca

well...i'm assuming the mark of the beast is the devil....and you know that particular belief is not a part of my mindset....

it was just my attempt to support this woman's arguement, and offer up a thought that the beast and its image may have nothing to do with any religious belief whatsoever.....

it wasn't my attempt at a put down....my apologies if it came off that way.

Hey iltos,

I think deception, control, abuse, etc (as it pertains to individual freedom - religious or otherwise) has many faces. Evilness prevails in all aspects of life (political and financial interests included). I believe this "control" has filtered down to our daily lives and will only increase as time goes on. I won't be taking part in the "chips" when this comes to pass. Hope everthing is well with you and yours.

[valley]

Originally Posted by katonca

I won't be taking part in the "chips" when this comes to pass.

katonca, I dont think you need to be concerned about a chip that will work like a paypass right now. I think the "mark of the beast" will be the information on that chip which will indicate that that the person willingly accepts and worships the antichrist.

A day might come where a person's religious affiliation is added to the chip but I think we are years and years away from the day when everyone in the world has a chip inserted. Maybe in the future, it will be inserted at birth and it can be modified throughout life to include social security number, address, contact information, life-saving allergy information, religious affiliation etc...

Getting the chip implanted isnt what will condemn you...it the deliberate and willful worship of antichrist that will. Read Revelation 13-14:9 and see if it makes sense to you that way.

[katonca]

Originally Posted by valley

Getting the chip implanted isnt what will condemn you...it the deliberate and willful worship of antichrist that will. Read Revelation 13-14:9 and see if it makes sense to you that way.

Hi valley,

I'm with you 100% on that. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out. Until recently any anti-religious (blief) movement was subtle but now it's more like "in your face". Abortion, gay union, etc has become an "acceptable" notion.

I just wonder how subtle the placement of the "chip" would be. Would the individual realize that the information they provide (for the chip) would align them as a believer in the anti-christ or would it be based purely on deception. I don't think we have to worry about it but our kids probably will.

[ChrisJones]

IMO there are two sides to RFID, the good and the bad.

On the one hand there is the good, RFID can be put to a multitude of helpful uses. One of particular interest is where the barcode on a product you buy at the local supermarket is replaced with a small RFID chip. Upon reaching the checkout all the items are scanned, much quicker than with a traditional barcode system, and the products are bagged in the normal way, the customer leaves but much quicker than before. After all who likes standing in line at the checkout. A bone of contention with this is whether the supermarkets will then deactivate the chips or leave them active.

Another good use is in the warehousing sector, particularly large distributers that have large warehouses and carry goods for many major chains. Each shipment for a particular company is issued with a RFID chip and the products can be tracked and traced much easier. Errors can be corrected quicker because the shipments can be found quicker. Also, if a RFID reader is installed in the trailer of the delivery truck it can check what shipments should be on the truck and in the event of a shipment being loaded in error it can be spotted and corrected before it becomes a problem or the truck leaves the depot.

On the other hand there are what are IMO the more sinister uses to RFID. Helix mentioned one of them, it has been proposed to put an RFID chip inside the new National ID card that Tony Blair is pushing through, despite strong opposition from his own party, the opposition and most of the public surveys that have been conducted. The basic problems I have with this, mean that it would be very easy to monitor and trace the everyday citizen using this system. As Helix also mentioned, any authority with permission can have a reader to check the RFID chips in the ID cards thus finding out the whereabouts of people as they go about their daily business. Now some argue, including Mr Blair, that if you have nothing to hide then why have concer, well I'm sorry, but I do not want anyone knowing my daily routine, not because I'm paranoid or are doing anything illegal, we are supposed to live in a free society. Can really be free if anyone the government deems appropriate can know our whereabouts at all times?

Finally onto religion. I am not a religious person. I do believe in some sort of higher spirit however I do not subscribe to being told how and when to speak to him. As such I do not fully understand the religious arguments. For me RFID is a consumer and citizenship matter not religious.

Chris.

[katonca]

Hi Chris, and thanks for the background about this issue. I hope the British gov will come to their senses concerning this.

[ekim68]

Wow, Chris, good read...

[DublHelix]

Another irony regarding identity cards as intended for the UK - they are supposedly being implemented to help prevent identity fraud ... yet a dutch computer postgrad has built a device to intercept the signal between an RFID and a reader, thereby allowing it to be cloned

That notwithstanding, public concern is dismissed, and Blair continues to pump billions of pounds into the project.

[peril0us]

There has to be a way to intercept it if it can be read on the other end. Its another stupid idea IMO, and thus the chances that it is implemented soon are very likely - maybe the americans.

[AKA Arizona]

I just love double edged swords. A point that most miss about all this is the rapture. The rapture occures before revelation.