[iltos]

just a couple of snippets from a nytime editioral today

A new 9,000-page constitutional draft...<offers>.... as many as four alternatives, complete with commentary, for many of its provisions. According to one version of the draft's first clause, "Israel is a Jewish and democratic state." Alternatives go on to identify Israel as "the state of the Jewish people" or "the state wherein the Jewish people are realizing their right to self-determination." Another option avoids the issue entirely, advising against making a statement about the state's character at all.

Religious parties objected that the draft failed to entrench the Orthodox rabbinate's monopoly on the marriage, divorce and burial of Israeli Jews. Civil libertarians lamented that the draft lacked clear provisions for breaking this monopoly and ending commerce and transportation restrictions on the Sabbath. Arab parties refused to accept the formalization of Israel's Jewish identity and an immigration policy that favors Jews.

and for those of you who might know this guy...here's who wrote the editiorial...Steven V. Mazie, an assistant professor of political science at Bard High School Early College, is the author of the forthcoming "Israel's Higher Law: Religion and Liberal Democracy in the Jewish State."

i'm pretty ignorant when it comes to all this stuff...what caught my eye was the bit about self-determination and whether israel should identify itself as a relgious state.....

seems pertinent in light of the new muslim state, iraq, and its quest for a balance between islamic law and democratic ideals.

[linskyjack]

This debate has been going on in Israel for years. They have some extremely religious whacko parties who are no better then the Mullahs of Arabia. Fortunately, Israel still has a majority of secularists who won't allow Israel to become a religious state.

[katonca]

Morning iltos,

"Israel is a Jewish and democratic state." Alternatives go on to identify Israel as "the state of the Jewish people" or "the state wherein the Jewish people are realizing their right to self-determination."

Good for them.

[linskyjack]

Correct---it's a Jewish state---within the Jewish state you have a variety of people--from socialists to religious whackos to non-Jews. ---What the left wants is for it not to be a Jewish state---in other words, they don't want Israel to exist as a seperate entity. That's because the US supports Israel and their has always been a current of anti-semiticsim among people from both extremes of the political spectrum.

[Fidelista]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Correct---it's a Jewish state---within the Jewish state you have a variety of people--from socialists to religious whackos to non-Jews. ---What the left wants is for it not to be a Jewish state---in other words, they don't want Israel to exist as a seperate entity. That's because the US supports Israel and their has always been a current of anti-semiticsim among people from both extremes of the political spectrum.

What does "Jewish State" really mean?.
I know for a fact that there are many different religious ideas expressed by the Israeli citizens {Arab Israeli---Moslem, as well}-- as well as a broad political differences, thats good --freedom.
So what is a Jewish state? . If not a religious theocracy, doesnt repress political thought--party, ect ect, {good things} just what is definition?.
Is it a racist state-- meaning Jews represented {racial} only?.
Are citizens treated unequally based on race ect?.
Do you have to be Jew --religious or racially to be treated as a full fledeged citizen?
Explain better.
I personally have no use for theocracy, OR racial states---BUT, in this case I see where it may be only way for region populated with ........people not willing to go to equality and 21'st century.
A long way from civilized progressive western nations, all.>f

[linskyjack]

Its a state where the majority of residents are Jewish---seems self evident to me. In Israel, Arabs have the same political rights as do Jews. It is not a theocracy, it is a democracy. Freedom of the press, speech etc. Anyone can form a political party in Israel. Constitutionally, all citizens are treated equally, however this isn't always the case in reality--sort of like the US and every other democracy in the world.

If you want to truely understand Israel, and why it must remain a state peopled by a majority of Jews, read the history of Jews in Arab countries in the region.