Power

Rep · 09-Apr-2006, 02:02 AM #1

As you may know, the GOP controls the American government. They control the office of the presidency. They dominate the U.S. Senate. Further, the U.S. House of Representatives is held by republicans as well. They make all decisions. And, they have for years.

Many of you are happy with this.

Many of you are not.

Power can be used for good intentions. It can also be used for ill intentions.

But in either case, the people that hold the power make the rules and the law under which we all must live.

The following is an interesting article. It is interesting in that it non-political in nature. The people interviewed are republicans and they reflect on the use of power by the GOP.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12227907/

BanditFlyer · 09-Apr-2006, 02:41 AM #2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rep

It is interesting in that it non-political in nature. The people interviewed are republicans and they reflect on the use of power by the GOP.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12227907/

A fair cop.

The only articles I usually trust to not be biased one way or the other and to actually be relevant to my life are the ones I read in the Wall Street Journal.

All those seem to be a few notches above the rest of the print media in intelligence, lack of bias, and relevance to my life.

This one seemed very informative. Gingrich is someone who I've heard propose some very intelligent solutions. Unfortunately, I think he's about 50 years ahead of his time. Most of the good ones won't happen.

**bassetman** · 09-Apr-2006, 02:49 AM #3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rep

As you may know, the GOP controls the American government. They control the office of the presidency. They dominate the U.S. Senate. Further, the U.S. House of Representatives is held by republicans as well. They make all decisions. And, they have for years.

Many of you are happy with this.

Many of you are not.

Power can be used for good intentions. It can also be used for ill intentions.

But in either case, the people that hold the power make the rules and the law under which we all must live.

The following is an interesting article. It is interesting in that it non-political in nature. The people interviewed are republicans and they reflect on the use of power by the GOP.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12227907/

Stoner · 09-Apr-2006, 06:45 AM #4

From the link:
excerpt>>

Quote:

Democrats "get to rip off the public in the states where they control and protect their incumbents, and we get to rip off the public in the states we control and protect our incumbents, so the public gets ripped off in both circumstances," Gingrich said. "In the long run, there's a downward spiral of isolation."

While I certainly agree, it's not exactly earth shattering news. Power corrupts.

**Ciberblade** · 09-Apr-2006, 08:55 AM #5

Rep ~ you above most should understand the flaw in claiming that Republicans 'make all decisions' -- it is not as complete of control as you might like to portray. But then, you already know this....This would fall under the fallacy of exclusion.

Thanks for the article, BTW

Rep · 09-Apr-2006, 09:27 AM #6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciberblade

Rep ~ you above most should understand the flaw in claiming that Republicans 'make all decisions' -- it is not as complete of control as you might like to portray. But then, you already know this....This would fall under the fallacy of exclusion.

Thanks for the article, BTW

Rarely does the majority party allow the minority access. The article did point out that both parties in the House have a history of excluding the minority by limiting their ability to offer amendments to legislative proposals.

The GOP holds the power.

**Ciberblade** · 09-Apr-2006, 11:49 AM #7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rep

Rarely does the majority party allow the minority access. The article did point out that both parties in the House have a history of excluding the minority by limiting their ability to offer amendments to legislative proposals.

The GOP holds the power.

Do you contend that the GOP has a fully functional power in that they can authorize or pass any legislation that they want?

Rep · 09-Apr-2006, 01:01 PM #8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciberblade

Do you contend that the GOP has a fully functional power in that they can authorize or pass any legislation that they want?

The majority GOP party can do whatever they want. They have the privalige to do so. They also have the responsibility.

If you are happy with the direction of the country, good for you. If you are not happy, it is time to do something about it.

**iltos** · 09-Apr-2006, 01:08 PM #9

imo, what this article indicates more than anything is that the centralization of power at the federal level has created a vacuum of responsibility....the infighting and bickering revolves around political positioning and abuse....it is losing sight of its purpose as a GOVERNING body, demanding hard choices and compromise for the good of the country, not the party nor the person.

BanditFlyer · 09-Apr-2006, 03:03 PM **#10**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rep

The majority GOP party can do whatever they want.

A simple 'yes' would've sufficed. The only problem with such a simple answer is that it's completely absurd.

Hence, take the long route.

**Ciberblade** · 09-Apr-2006, 03:15 PM **#11**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rep

The majority GOP party can do whatever they want. They have the privalige to do so. They also have the responsibility.

If you are happy with the direction of the country, good for you. If you are not happy, it is time to do something about it.

You seem to suffer from a lack of understanding regarding majority power. Though, with your experience that seems unlikely...so the only logical conclusion is that you are using a fallacy of simplification in an effort to apply your own personal/political agenda. Allow me to illustrate the error this fallacy produces:

Now in order for the majority Republican party to "do whatever they want" they must have enough members to pass any legislation. In other words, their members must number so that the votes for or against would give them ruling authority. Lets take a look at how that works. There are 435 members in the House and 100 in the Senate.
In the House there are currently 231 Republicans, 201 Democrats, and one Independent -- (with two vacancies)
In the Senate there are 55 Republicans, 44 Democrats, and one Independent -- (with no vacancies)

Now in order for the Republicans to have the type of control you claim they do, they must be able to vote in or out without regard to the minority party. Meaning that they must have a three-fifths majority. So in the house they would have to have 261 seats and they would need 60 seats in the Senate (at the same time). Looking at the numbers, they fall short of the House by 30 seats and the Senate by 5. But then, we have not taken into consideration those that do not always vote with their party...to which one could add an additional 5 to 7 seats for the House and 3 to 5 seats for the Senate.

So you can see that while the Republicans do have enough elected members to claim the majority position (selected by the excess of 50%), they in no way have a functional voting control of either Congressional unit....nor would we want them to! Danger is in allowing any single party that type of control -- regardless of the political views we hold.

BanditFlyer · 09-Apr-2006, 03:16 PM **#12**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iltos

imo, what this article indicates more than anything is that the centralization of power at the federal level has created a vacuum of responsibility....the infighting and bickering revolves around political positioning and abuse....it is losing sight of its purpose as a GOVERNING body, demanding hard choices and compromise for the good of the country, not the party nor the person.

kinda reminds you of the book Animal Farm, don't it?

I'm not taking any political position with that last statement(for or against either of the 2 major parties). It's more along the lines of the pessimist in me barking at the moon.