[plschwartz]

Now we have had endless exhortations to "support the troops" and cauldrons of ofal poured off the ramparts onto the heads of nonBelievers.
Then came Murtha, who was know to talkwith and for the Generals. Well he got trashed fast didn't he.
But now, finally ( ) we are given a fair choice. Who is represented the troops? Rummy or the Generals. I know the True Believers will at once start trashing the Generals. So I suggest you read "Cobra II" first.
So Rummy or the Generals?

[compushlep]

Originally Posted by plschwartz

Now we have had endless exhortations to "support the troops" and cauldrons of ofal poured off the ramparts onto the heads of nonBelievers.
Then came Murtha, who was know to talkwith and for the Generals. Well he got trashed fast didn't he.
But now, finally ( ) we are given a fair choice. Who is represented the troops? Rummy or the Generals. I know the True Believers will at once start trashing the Generals. So I suggest you read "Cobra II" first.
So Rummy or the Generals?

you can throw another soldier into the mix, former secretary of state, Colin Powell. He was part of the farce-troupe's call to the fake war but now he's openly pointing at Cheney (mainly) .... see here: http://forums.techguy.org/3520605-post3409.html

It is obvious the Bush administration lied, is lying now and based on it's lying record there's little reason to believe it will stop lying anytime soon

Time to get the 'hypnotized' collective heads out of the sand and give these crooks their just deserts ...

[Rep]

I was wondering when someone was going to begin a thread on this topic. Did I recently see an article about the growing numbers of officers we are losing from our military ranks?

It is sad to see the presidential and congressional leadership in such a position. Yes, of course, they made the decisions and created the conditions under which our nation now must face.

The trust has been broken. I fear an escalating call for accountability and the ramifications. But it is probably necessary in that our current leadership has no plan, no drive and are tired. Hopefully new leadership will emerge to begin setting us on different, more secure paths.

[Fidelista]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/pr...181587,00.html
? >f

[Rep]

Originally Posted by Fidelista

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/pr...181587,00.html
? >f

"A military insider sounds off against the war and the "zealots" who pushed it
By LIEUT. GENERAL GREG NEWBOLD (RET.)"

I think the by-line of the article you posted says it all. Our leaders wanted that war so badly. Our leaders are zealots. They were and are not able to plan ahead. And now we must contend with what they led us into.

[BanditFlyer]

I think my hair is starting to thin out. I really am starting to get a bit of a beer gut. I crashed my last motorcycle. I was 'browsing' at women in traffic, and crashed my car...

Hey! Wait a minute ... I think I'm starting to see a common thread running through all my problems ... GWB - that's right Geee-freakin'-Dubya-Bee

It's all Bush's fault - he lied about my alleged hair loss. He lied about my beer gut - I distincly remember him quoting thee same intelligence reports as John Kerry, and pretty much using the same words to quote them, but his intelligence about my beer gut was a lie, and John Kerry's wasn't, even though Kerry used the same words.

Morning guys,
Hey, I've got a great idea, Let's bash Bush today!

[ekim68]

Originally Posted by Rep

I was wondering when someone was going to begin a thread on this topic. Did I recently see an article about the growing numbers of officers we are losing from our military ranks?

It is sad to see the presidential and congressional leadership in such a position. Yes, of course, they made the decisions and created the conditions under which our nation now must face.

The trust has been broken. I fear an escalating call for accountability and the ramifications. But it is probably necessary in that our current leadership has no plan, no drive and are tired. Hopefully new leadership will emerge to begin setting us on different, more secure paths.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/10/wa...gewanted=print

They keep on breaking things, don't they?

[Rep]

Originally Posted by BanditFlyer

I think my hair is starting to thin out. I really am starting to get a bit of a beer gut. I crashed my last motorcycle. I was 'browsing' at women in traffic, and crashed my car...

Hey! Wait a minute ... I think I'm starting to see a common thread running through all my problems ... GWB - that's right Geee-freakin'-Dubya-Bee

It's all Bush's fault - he lied about my alleged hair loss. He lied about my beer gut - I distincly remember him quoting thee same intelligence reports as John Kerry, and pretty much using the same words to quote them, but his intelligence about my beer gut was a lie, and John Kerry's wasn't, even though Kerry used the same words.

Morning guys,
Hey, I've got a great idea, Let's bash Bush today!

Your hair is certainly important to you. But, at the same time does not effect the future of our country.

Most people today have come to the realization that Bush has led us in directions that are very problematic. Is pointing that out Bush bashing? I don't think so.

[bill.aam]

Originally Posted by Rep

"A military insider sounds off against the war and the "zealots" who pushed it
By LIEUT. GENERAL GREG NEWBOLD (RET.)"

I think the by-line of the article you posted says it all. Our leaders wanted that war so badly. Our leaders are zealots. They were and are not able to plan ahead. And now we must contend with what they led us into.

When you use the term "Our leaders", are you referring also to democrat leaders

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by Rep

Most people today have come to the realization that Bush has led us in directions that are very problematic. Is pointing that out Bush bashing? I don't think so.

Bush led us in the direction we wanted to go. 'We' meaning everybody, democrats and republicans alike.

To now say, as a voter, that Bush led us astray, after expecting him to lead us in the exact direction he led us, is akin to the many German exchange students I've met who said, "Oh, yeah, everybody supported Hitler ... but no one in my family of course."

This is sheer, unadulterated hypocrisy.

There is a small but very quickly growing group of small govt. democrats calling themselves independants. They are joining with the ranks of the large group of republicans that stopped supporting Bush after they realized Bush just wanted to appease everyone, rather than limit the growth of govt.

The rest of you are nothing more than hipocrites.

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by bill.aam

When you use the term "Our leaders", are you referring also to democrat leaders

Only the ones in charge

[TooBad]

Originally Posted by Rep

I was wondering when someone was going to begin a thread on this topic. Did I recently see an article about the growing numbers of officers we are losing from our military ranks?

It is sad to see the presidential and congressional leadership in such a position. Yes, of course, they made the decisions and created the conditions under which our nation now must face.

The trust has been broken. I fear an escalating call for accountability and the ramifications. But it is probably necessary in that our current leadership has no plan, no drive and are tired. Hopefully new leadership will emerge to begin setting us on different, more secure paths.

Of course they're leaviing, what with all that "support" coming from idiot bashers like you. Did ever occur to you that the crap situation that Bush was left with by that idiot Clinton, there were no good choices to make. When there are no good choices you'll simply bash any decision by one not of your choosing. What a Moore-On! No wonder you can't win an election. The only parallel between Iraq and Vietnam is that the left-wing communist loving press was able to defeat America in Vietnam and wants so badly to defeat America again. They are still peeved that the "wrong" side won the cold war! Bunch of socialist losers!

[bassetman]

Originally Posted by TooBad

Of course they're leaviing, what with all that "support" coming from idiot bashers like you. Did ever occur to you that the crap situation that Bush was left with by that idiot Clinton, there were no good choices to make. When there are no good choices you'll simply bash any decision by one not of your choosing. What a Moore-On! No wonder you can't win an election. The only parallel between Iraq and Vietnam is that the left-wing communist loving press was able to defeat America in Vietnam and wants so badly to defeat America again. They are still peeved that the "wrong" side won the cold war! Bunch of socialist losers!

Well, apparently you don't think much of Bush either!?

[bill.aam]

Originally Posted by bassetman

Only the ones in charge

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 | Source

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 | Source

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 | Source

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998 | Source

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 | Source

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998 | Source

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 | Source

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 | Source

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 | Source

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 | Source

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 | Source

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 | Source

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 | Source

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 | Source

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 | Source

[BanditFlyer]

Bill, I think you might be under the mistaken assumption that a lot of these hipocrites would actually care one whit about something as completely insignificant as facts