[grandpaw7]

(Revised)

People say we have capitalism in the United States, which we do. But having capitalism is something like having religion. It can cover a multitude of saints and sinners. What kind of capitalism do we have?

We started out with largely unregulated capitalism. However, we found that largely unregulated capitalism didn’t work because it begot such evils as child labor, unsafe working conditions, exploitation of the poor through long working hours and poverty level wages, unsafe food and drugs, exploitation of natural resources and the environment, deception of consumers, dishonest and fraudulent business practices, etc. It became clear that in order for capitalism to work in a fair and balanced way, it had to be socialized, that is, made fit to live among the people without exploiting them. That is why there have been laws and regulations to rein in raw, unregulated capitalism.

It is still capitalism, but it bears little resemblance to the predatory capitalism of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. These various laws and regulations may be said to have the purpose of socializing predatory capitalism so as to make it fit for the general population in the same sense that we socialize children and animals so that they can fit comfortably into society without hurting society too much.

The genius of capitalism is that it gives people freedom to do as they want, so that their instincts for improving their own personal lot can result in improving the lot of society as a whole. In effect, it puts man’s greed to work for the benefit of all. But greed is not inherently concerned with the rights of others, so, left untended, greed will find a way to exploit rather than benefit. It is like a campfire that initially warms people but, left untended, reaches out to devour the forest, or like a wild horse that can be of great service to man but only if it is socialized, that is, only if reins are put on it to control it.

So, laws and regulations are put in place are to rein in man’s greed, to socialize capitalism so that it can benefit society without exploiting it. Socialize in a sense similar to the way owners socialize dogs, prisons attempt to socialize criminals, and juvenile detention facilities attempt to socialize delinquents so that society can benefit from their presence without being victimized. Domesticate and tame might also be used to describe the process.

Because of this socialization of capitalism, we now have child labor laws, wage and hour laws, industrial safety laws, food and drug laws, business regulation laws, securities regulation laws, environmental protection laws, usury laws, deceptive advertising laws, consumer protection laws, etc.

Capitalism has proved its worth. It has catapulted the US into first place in world economies. But it is not the predatory capitalism of the past but the present socialized capitalism that has given the United States its greatness. It is, however, an never-ending process. Greed cannot be eliminated, only controlled. So greed will continue to look for ways to exploit, and we must continue to look for ways to regulate. The Enron type scandals are a good example of this.

[poochee]

Grandpaw7...Good post!

[ekim68]

There's a lot to say for trade and barter, which is how capitalism began....But, then, came
the pencil-pushers, and the politicians. Well, originally our communties were just that,
people who got along...It reminds me of a bumper sticker. Think globally, act locally..
I really think that's where it will make a difference...Do things at a personal level...

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by poochee

Grandpaw7...Good post!

Yes poochee GP7 took a very complex history of a maturing economic system and put it in terms you can comprehend. Simplistic leaps to mind again.

[Stoner]

We started out with largely unregulated capitalism. However, we found that largely unregulated capitalism didn’t work because it begot such evils as child labor, unsafe working conditions, exploitation of the poor through long working hours and poverty level wages, unsafe food and drugs, exploitation of natural resources and the environment, deception of consumers, dishonest and fraudulent business practices, etc. It became clear that in order for capitalism to work in a fair and balanced way, it had to be socialized, that is, made fit to live among the people without exploiting them. That is why there have been laws and regulations to rein in raw, unregulated capitalism.

(edit: this post was generated as a response to gp7 before he made changes in his opening post. )

As gb pointed out, a rather simplified accounting of history......but, the ability to adapt, correct past mistakes, is one of the advantages of a democratic society. Although the US is structured as a Federal Republic, the will of the people is reflected in their chosen representation.
Regulated capitalism is what we now have as a model for our economy. Call it what you will, but modified is what it is. We, the citizen, have decided the restrictions.....for what we percieve as accomplishing the best economic conditions for the most people.

In the end, capitalism, by any name, is just the working model of an economy the US has selected . The success of that economy depends on how wisely we, the voting citizen, decide to impliment restrictions and then work within them.

Did capitalism make us great?
More to the point, freedom made us greater.
Go to either political extreme....and much of that freedom is lost and economies generally suffer along with that loss.

[linskyjack]

Good analysis by Grandpa---Capitalism, like any other "ism" is religious in nature. We do have a mixed economy, and Stoner's analysis adds to Grandpas.

[poochee]

Originally Posted by gbrumb

Yes poochee GP7 took a very complex history of a maturing economic system and put it in terms you can comprehend. Simplistic leaps to mind again.

Yes, eliminate the superfluous and get to bottom line.

[Stoner]

I suggest the thread starter point out the edits in his opening statement, as comments have already been made to the original version.....

Greed cannot be eliminated, only controlled.

Very true. And it has been observed in socialist settings, also.
There was a recent post about the wealth of Castro, in this forum.
So, there also needs to be concern with the nefarious aspects of socialism.

[grandpaw7]

It is quite true, as Stoner points out, that socialism also faces the downside of human nature. We will not, however, do much to improve the capitalistic system we have in the United States by focusing our attention on the problems of other systems rather than the problems of our own system. In fact, that tactic is often used as an excuse to ignore problems rather than to solve them.

[Stoner]

Yea!!!!!!.......
I'm off 'ignore'.........

That was easy

[grandpaw7]

Unregulated capitalism at work

Congress appropriated billions of dollars of your hard earned money to attempt to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people by rebuilding the infrastructure, providing them with water, electricity, health care and schools. Since we have a capitalist system, private corporations were used to do the work. No doubt that these corporations have in most cases done a much more efficient job than if the government set up a government entity to do the same thing. But many of these corporations have also attempted to steal millions, apparently, billions, of dollars of your hard earned money, thus not only hurting your pocketbook but, more important, hurting the attempt to acquire benefit from the Iraq boondoggle.

In many cases, these corporations are being pursued and some even brought to justice because there are laws regulating them that can be invoked. In these cases, socialized capitalism exists, at least to some extent. In other cases, however, unregulated, predatory, capitalism prevails.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...6iraqfunds.htm

US Firms Suspected of Bilking Iraq Funds
Millions Missing from Program for Rebuilding
By Farah Stockman
Boston Globe
April 16, 2006
American contractors swindled hundreds of millions of dollars in Iraqi funds, but so far there is no way for Iraq's government to recoup the money, according to US investigators and civil attorneys tracking fraud claims against contractors. Courts in the United States are beginning to force contractors to repay reconstruction funds stolen from the American government. But legal roadblocks have prevented Iraq from recovering funds that were seized from the Iraqi government by the US-led coalition and then paid to contractors who failed to do the work.
A US law that allows citizens to recover money from dishonest contractors protects only the US government, not foreign governments. In addition, an Iraqi law created by the Coalition Provisional Authority days before it ceded sovereignty to Iraq in June 2004 gives American contractors immunity from prosecution in Iraq. "In effect, it makes Iraq into a 'free-fraud zone,'" said Alan Grayson, a Virginia attorney who is suing the private security firm Custer Battles in a whistle-blower lawsuit filed by former employees. A federal jury last month found the Rhode Island-based company liable for $3 million in fraudulent billings in Iraq.

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by grandpaw7

It is quite true, as Stoner points out, that socialism also faces the downsoide of human nature. We will not, however, do much to improve the capitalistic system we have in the United States by focusing our attention on the problems of other systems rather than the problems of our own system. In fact, that tactic is often used as an excuse to ignore problems rather than to solve them.

That actually made no sense.
Of course there needs to be concern when altering an economic/political perspective.
Anything less is just a knee jerk reaction with out forethought......like the current Bush economic policies.
You sound like a person who wants change for change's sake, not change to correct issues. And knowing the downside to socialism in the extremes is definitely important, as it destroys what does work along with what doesn't.

[Stoner]

Originally Posted by grandpaw7

Unregulated capitalism at work................

Congress appropriated billions of dollars of your hard earned money ............

Also called corporate socialism.
Another extremist viewpoint.

[GoneForNow]

Originally Posted by Stoner

That actually made no sense.

That is expected when reviewing most posts by GP7. Generally not worth the effort of responding too. You, on the other hand, seem to have adopted the mantel of the "Don Quixote of TSG". Please feel free to tip at windmills all day.

[Stoner]

gb....it's raining today in my area........

So no M/C riding today ........