[angelize56]

katonca: I never realized you weren't older...until I just snuck a peek at your profile pic!

[poochee]

Originally Posted by katonca

It's all about following the will of God. Check the Bible, when the people didn't follow God's will and fell into transgression, blessings were withheld and naturally bad things then occurred.

But then of course you have to believe the Bible is from the Word of God.

[poochee]

Originally Posted by Mulder

I like the movie Bruce Almighty because its message is simple. Bruce ends up answering everyone's prayers and the result is havoc in the world. God says to Bruce that people often ask for what they want but don't need and what they need, they don't want.

I was listening to a guy (Jim McClaren)

http://www.challengedathletes.org/about_caf/

who had a very severe accident and had his left amputated then fought back to complete in triathlons, then had a second accident and was paralyzed. It was amazing how he now believes it was a blessing what happened to him.

I don't mean to imply that being paralyzed is a blessing, but the point is what seems to be something no one would want and certainly he wouldn't have chosen, to him it was something he needed. And from his tragedy came the organization I linked to above.

[redivivus]

I know how you feel gpaw!

I have 2 points to address on this topic, one which you introduced already. =)

1)
When valley says that miracles happen often you must keep in mind perspective. In church, when a good thing happens it is 'praise God' and when a bad thing happens it is 'God must have a plan for using this, some plan that we do not quite understand, but will ultimately be for the better.'

Infact, if there is one thing that i have learned from going to church, it is that EVERYTHING can be rationalized by this perspective and nobody seems to question it.

If you take a step back and tally it up, it appears from a logical point of view that there is no trend of 'miracles' favoring Christians or non-Christians. This baffles me.

2)
What is with 'listening to God?' I have NEVER understood this thing. The closest i have ever come to it (and i am half-convinced that this is what it comes down to) is listening to your conscience. Try sitting still with your eyes closed and thinking about an almighty judgement and try not hearing your conscience.

So, are conscience and 'listening to God' the same thing?

The problem i have with this is that everyone has a conscience, even if they do not believe in God.

[help4me]

Originally Posted by Mulder

I like the movie Bruce Almighty because its message is simple. Bruce ends up answering everyone's prayers and the result is havoc in the world. God says to Bruce that people often ask for what they want but don't need and what they need, they don't want.

I was listening to a guy (Jim McClaren)

http://www.challengedathletes.org/about_caf/

who had a very severe accident and had his left amputated then fought back to complete in triathlons, then had a second accident and was paralyzed. It was amazing how he now believes it was a blessing what happened to him.

I don't mean to imply that being paralyzed is a blessing, but the point is what seems to be something no one would want and certainly he wouldn't have chosen, to him it was something he needed. And from his tragedy came the organization I linked to above.

Excellent Mulder

[redivivus]

Originally Posted by Mulder

I like the movie Bruce Almighty because its message is simple. Bruce ends up answering everyone's prayers and the result is havoc in the world. God says to Bruce that people often ask for what they want but don't need and what they need, they don't want.

This is a very coy way that Christians seem to use to rationalize anything that comes their way. When a Christian dies after an accident, didnt he NEED the protection of the accident and/or the recovery in the hospital? But he still died? At this point it seems like the logic is backwards and thus faith comes into play and says "God must have had a better plan for him."

Originally Posted by Mulder

I was listening to a guy (Jim McClaren)

http://www.challengedathletes.org/about_caf/

who had a very severe accident and had his left amputated then fought back to complete in triathlons, then had a second accident and was paralyzed. It was amazing how he now believes it was a blessing what happened to him.

I don't mean to imply that being paralyzed is a blessing, but the point is what seems to be something no one would want and certainly he wouldn't have chosen, to him it was something he needed. And from his tragedy came the organization I linked to above.

From what i have seen, there is nothing that isnt a blessing to a Christian, new or old. If he was killed that day he would proclaim it was a blessing to go to heaven. If he surived for two hundred years he would proclaim it was a blessing so he could use his time on earth to save others.

[redivivus]

Yesterday's sermon was partially about 'building a wall around your heart from sin.' It was also mentioned that sin was questioning God, and i spent the next 20 minutes trying to decide if this was not 'brainwash!' Church teaches its followers to abbandon logic and knowledge and just go on God. Part of me thinks that we would be better off to remain vigilant in this age in which the religion is in stalemate. Part of me thinks that i must be daft and that everyone else must see something that i dont, because they all seem to follow it so closely.

Anyways... incase you wondered im *undecided.*

[dugq]

Originally Posted by LauraMJ

These things happen because of the choice that people make that effect others. The only way that God could prevent these things from happening is to remove everyone's free will so that they only do it God's way.

Are you sure you would want that?

Okay, it may be an obvious question but... what about heaven. If freedom from suffering and free will are mutually exclusive, which one does heaven lack?

[katonca]

Originally Posted by angelize56

katonca: I never realized you weren't older...until I just snuck a peek at your profile pic!

How old did I appear? I am graying though, but that's ok. Nice fish ain't it?

[poochee]

Originally Posted by dugq

Okay, it may be an obvious question but... what about heaven. If freedom from suffering and free will are mutually exclusive, which one does heaven lack?

We have free will while on earth. In Heaven, there will be no need to make choices because we will not be sinners anymore.

[redivivus]

Originally Posted by poochee

We have free will while on earth. In Heaven, there will be no need to make choices because we will not be sinners anymore.

Can you just picture yourself in languid state just watching your body do what is 'predestined' of you? Sounds kinda boring.

[katonca]

Originally Posted by redivivus

Yesterday's sermon was partially about 'building a wall around your heart from sin.' It was also mentioned that sin was questioning God, and i spent the next 20 minutes trying to decide if this was not 'brainwash!' Church teaches its followers to abbandon logic and knowledge and just go on God. Part of me thinks that we would be better off to remain vigilant in this age in which the religion is in stalemate. Part of me thinks that i must be daft and that everyone else must see something that i dont, because they all seem to follow it so closely.

Anyways... incase you wondered im *undecided.*

JAMES 1:5-6 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally".

Give that a try, you'll receive an answer.

[dugq]

Originally Posted by poochee

We have free will while on earth. In Heaven, there will be no need to make choices because we will not be sinners anymore.

So theres no free will in heaven?

May I ask the other christians here if this is a common belief. I'm pretty familiar with christian teaching but have never come across this before.

[katonca]

Originally Posted by dugq

So theres no free will in heaven?

May I ask the other christians here if this is a common belief. I'm pretty familiar with christian teaching but have never come across this before.

I'm not sure why there would be a need for free will while in the presense of Heavenly Father or Christ.

[help4me]

We still have free will in heaven. Afterall Satan is a fallen angel.