[TRS-80 vet]

What a stupid question.

Everybody knows that the administration/party is NOT in Iraq. The military/industrial complex, who's in charge, isn't gonna' let us know either.

Bush who?


Debate that!

[Chicon]

If a '08 candidate, whatever his political views, is doing so, he will give the proof he's no fit for presidency !
The main role of a president is to serve the country he represents and not to give precious informations to the enemies of his country !

[Ciberblade]

Nope -- as a country we are committed (or at lest should be) -- regardless of the political fraternity cheers you hear....they are in surprising agreement

[linskyjack]

Thats a difficult question to answer because by next year, I suspect the troop withdrawls will have begun. There is no doubt that if things are as bad as they are now, that Iraq is not feasable as a functioning state in the region. I suspect, that by late August an announcement will be made in order for the Republicans to counter the impending implosion of the their majority in the House.

[bill.aam]

Kerry will, Hillary will not... Good to see the Dems all on the same page..




US President George W. Bush's triumphant return from his unannounced visit in Iraq found opposition Democrats more divided than ever on US policy in the wartorn country, and how best to capitalize on administration missteps there.

Republicans basked in the afterglow of the president's dramatic lightning visit Tuesday to meet with Iraq's new Prime Minister Nuri Maliki -- an event likely to figure prominently in a daylong debate Thursday in the House of Representatives on Iraq and the US "war on terror."

Bush's trip Tuesday followed last week's successes in Iraq, with the formation of the country's new unity government and the killing of Al-Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

But Democrats -- who have disagreed about the war since the invasion more than three years ago -- continued to be riven by internal dissent, particularly on the critical question of an exit strategy from Iraq.

One of the party's most prominent figures, Senator John Kerry, is expected to introduce a resolution this week calling for a pullout of American forces by the end of the year.

"No matter how brave our soldiers are, no matter how valiant, no matter what their caring ... our soldiers cannot bring democracy to Iraq at the barrel of a gun," Kerry said Tuesday at a gathering of progressive Democrats.

"The Iraqis themselves must build democracy. And it will never be done if Iraqis' leaders are unwilling to make the compromises necessary that that requires," the 2004 Democratic presidential candidate told hundreds of activists at a convention entitled "Campaign for America's Future: Take Back America."

But at the same forum, another top Senate Democrat, Hillary Clinton, insisted that it would not be a "smart strategy" to create a timeline to leave Iraq.

Both Kerry and Clinton are also leading presidential contenders in 2008, an election in which Iraq is due to figure prominently.

The divisions over Iraq also come with Democrats fighting to reclaim the House and Senate from Republicans in midterm elections in November.

Kerry, whom Bush defeated in the 2004 presidential election, said at Tuesday's rally that the president's presence in Iraq did not change his view that the US military venture there is counter-productive.

The Massachusetts Democrat derided the president's "quick, and now not-so-secret trip to Iraq," saying the military role there increasingly resembles the US military debacle in Vietnam.

"For a long time, we've been told that Iraq and Vietnam were different. But in telling and very tragic ways now, they are converging," he said.

He added: "We need a deadline now for the Iraqis to understand they must stand up and fight for their own country."

Clinton on Tuesday made a plea for party unity, urging Democrats to coalesce around their opposition to the Bush administration, rather than being fractured over Iraq and other internal party disagreements.

"If we're going to win in November then we have to be smarter, tougher and better prepared than our opponents," she said.

"One thing they do know how to do is win and we have to reach out to people who may not be able to agree with us."

Democrats in disarray

[poochee]

I doubt it! Time will tell.

Unfortunately, Pandora's box is not easily closed.

[DublHelix]

As an English poster here I am interested to know whether a presidential candidate declaring an intention to withdraw all troops within a stated timeframe, would receive support, or face opposition ?

For ex. - If Hilary stated that she would pull out all troops by 2009, would that be likely to boost her chances, or hinder them ?

I am well aware that GWB cannot serve another term, so from the Republican perspective, whoever they select, will be untested ...

So what do Americans here at TSG think will prove the decisive factior in electing the next President ?

'Anyone' but a Republican.

Anyone who will extricate America from the Iraqi imbroglio.

Anyone who will shift focus to domestic issues.

----------------

*They have shown the speeches here in England where both Kerry and Clinton expressed conflicting views on what to do about troop withdrawal from Iraq.

[Wino]

'Anyone' but a Republican.

Anyone who will extricate America from the Iraqi imbroglio.

Anyone who will shift focus to domestic issues

All three, IMHO.

[DublHelix]

Originally Posted by Wino

'Anyone' but a Republican.

Anyone who will extricate America from the Iraqi imbroglio.

Anyone who will shift focus to domestic issues

All three, IMHO.

A copy / paste cop out answer

Whether you like it or not - America is the 'World's Policeman'.

It SHOULD BE the UN which fullfils that role ... but it never has been, and for any observer, it should be apparent that it does not, and never will.

Nobody who witnessed UN inaction in Rwanda, the Balkans, Chechnya, E Timor, can seriously think that that organisation will ever discharge its obligations.

---------------

Should not the US, as the world's last superpower ... not be prepared to fill the vacuum ?

If not - why would the US not withdraw from the UN, and stop funding it ?

Expel them from NY - send them to Geneva or Stockholm - and cut off all funding ?

[poochee]

DublHelix, As an English poster here I am interested to know whether a presidential candidate declaring an intention to withdraw all troops within a stated timeframe, would receive support, or face opposition ?
For ex. - If Hilary stated that she would pull out all troops by 2009, would that be likely to boost her chances, or hinder them ?


I think it would hinder them, regardless of party. IMO, it is illogical to set a date for the termination of a war. At least at this point.

[Littlefield]

John Kerry already has said he wants it by end of year , Hilliary gets booed at a speech and the twofaced Kerry says you cannot have it both ways concerning Iraq .Unfricking believable.

[angelize56]

I see John Edwards is going to run! I know he won't get my vote! He seems like such a phony!!! He was hard enough to tolerate running in 2004 with Kerry!

[Fidelista]

I believe the Republicans will begin the pullout before 2008--at least I hope so.
They are in a bad situation, either they begin to come to grips with their problem or wait for Dems to fix it. This could be political problem for them.
On the other hand maybe they will wait so Dems can blamed for outcome?. It could play to public --everything else does. Hard to say---there is no good way to exit this mess.
What concerns me is a partial pullout with limited long term military presence, sort of a half-arsed way to avoid reality. The Dems are certainly capable of that, and that could keep pot boiling forever. Nobody wants to face it --admit a terrible mistake.
At any rate , somebody will have to do what Nixon did --call it a day and make best of it.
Bush won't , unless forced , and who knows how serious moderate Republicans are?.
I don't see anyone however , declaring a date, it just has too much political fallout. >f

[Littlefield]

Pretty boy he could not even win his own state for the senate again he is a joke.

[combsdon]

Originally Posted by Littlefield

Pretty boy he could not even win his own state for the senate again he is a joke.

.....I assume you are referring to Edwards.........if so, what is your description of Bush.....