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Stealing Democracy: voting manipulation


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Mulderator's Avatar
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06-Jul-2006, 05:22 PM #61
Wikipedia:

Quote:
A full cousin of George W. Bush, John Prescott Ellis, was analyzing data from the Voter News Service for Fox News and had several times contact by telephone with both George and Jeb Bush that night. It was his decision to call Florida for Bush, with Fox being the first network to do so. However, Fox had also incorrectly called the state for Gore before the polls had closed, like the other networks, and retracted around the same time they did which was at around 10pm that evening.
And here is the link so you can read this crap youself!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._pr...election,_2000
Mulderator's Avatar
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06-Jul-2006, 05:26 PM #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmosmith
Do you know if the numbers have actually changed, or just the perception?

And isn't it more likely to get a plea bargain from a public defender than from a private counselor? So isn't the problem still the same; that the resulting number of convictions are still disproportionately on the poor?

(I'm not asking rhetorical questions here. I'm asking because I don't know about this stuff -- I like studying numbers and all, but I've never looked at these, not my field.)

Thanks,
J
Well there is no way to know any true numbers (how do you poll DAs to ask them if they are more vigrously prosecuting rich people now? Like asking when did you stop beating your wife). However, I speak with a lot of criminal defense attorneys and I of course end up defending a number of people accused of crimes in their civil trials. Right now, I have a guy who is trying to get 6 years for killing 3 people in a DUI accident and the DA won't go for less than 15. His criminal defense attorney thinks its because he killed 3 illegal aliens and doesn't want it to appear like he's cutting any slack to this guy, who is a middle class white guy--not rich, but well enough off to hire a good defense attorney.

There is also the issue of egos it the DAs office--they like to beat the better criminal defense attorneys.
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06-Jul-2006, 05:26 PM #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulder
And here is the link so you can read this crap youself!
...somehow I just knew you'd have the dirt on this one!

Thanks!
J
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06-Jul-2006, 05:29 PM #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulder
Well there is no way to know any true numbers (how do you poll DAs to ask them if they are more vigrously prosecuting rich people now? Like asking when did you stop beating your wife). However, I speak with a lot of criminal defense attorneys and I of course end up defending a number of people accused of crimes in their civil trials. Right now, I have a guy who is trying to get 6 years for killing 3 people in a DUI accident and the DA won't go for less than 15. His criminal defense attorney thinks its because he killed 3 illegal aliens and doesn't want it to appear like he's cutting any slack to this guy, who is a middle class white guy--not rich, but well enough off to hire a good defense attorney.

There is also the issue of egos it the DAs office--they like to beat the better criminal defense attorneys.
Interesting,...

Still, I think I'd sell my cousin's kids and my sibling's kids all into slavery before trusting my freedom to a public defender!

...then again, I don't think I'd do anything feloneous either to begin with!!!
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06-Jul-2006, 05:45 PM #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmosmith
Interesting,...

Still, I think I'd sell my cousin's kids and my sibling's kids all into slavery before trusting my freedom to a public defender!

...then again, I don't think I'd do anything feloneous either to begin with!!!
I doubt OJ ever thought he would, either. Never say never.
Mulderator's Avatar
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06-Jul-2006, 08:52 PM #66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmosmith
Interesting,...

Still, I think I'd sell my cousin's kids and my sibling's kids all into slavery before trusting my freedom to a public defender!

...then again, I don't think I'd do anything feloneous either to begin with!!!
Don't sell public defenders short--there are some very good ones--a lot of liberal/ACLU types willing to put up a good fight for their deadbeat clients who have been victimized by the capitalistic system!
Mulderator's Avatar
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06-Jul-2006, 08:58 PM #67
I once had a case against a long time PD--guy was about 50 years old and he had been in an accident where another insurance company paid him $20,000. He gets a ton of vacation in California (thanks to the government union! ), so what he did was skip work for 3 months and use up his vacation and claim that as lost earnings (in California, that's a collateral source so he still gets to claim it in a lawsuit).

So I got all the records and I could see he was doing the same thing again--skipped work for a few months and was demanding $20,000. I told him to screw off--we'd give him $9,000 and that was it.

Well, you have no the mentality of PDs--they often don't settle cases until the day of trial becaue the DAs are overworked and have to put much more work into trying a case then a PD who only has to prove reasonable doubt. Sure enough, this guy settled on the day of trial for the $9,000. I didn't even want to give him that at that point, but the judge basically strong armed me into doing it because he didn't want to spend a week in a trial over $9,000.
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07-Jul-2006, 01:57 AM #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulder
Don't sell public defenders short--there are some very good ones--a lot of liberal/ACLU types willing to put up a good fight for their deadbeat clients who have been victimized by the capitalistic system!
Don't you mean "socialized" by the capitalist system?
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07-Jul-2006, 07:20 AM #69
....................So what category do you put the person(s) who fiddled around with my right to vote in 1992?

This is totally illegal, and are you now going to tell me that I live in an area so morally bankrupt that this sort of thing is acceptable? All those eastern europeans who fought for the right to vote - and here's a I am, born and raised in the worlds first modern democracy, and someone decides I can't that year.

Oh, and when you're making a radio series about that very election - the paradox is there for all to see!
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Last edited by lighthouse; 07-Jul-2006 at 07:26 AM..
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