[Michiba]

I like these open forums, butb theres too much Bush vs Islam etc etc, so what about what your listening to? Any livly debat on less news worthy topics

Michiba

[bomb #21]

Yes, over in "Random Discussion" -- for example:

http://forums.techguy.org/random-dis...g-too-4-a.html

[BanditFlyer]

Oi!

The Ramones vs a bunch of silly little flying mosquito-humans?!?!?!

No Contest! The Rockers would eat those little fairies for breakfast and fart pixie dust all the way to Neverland.

Peter Pan wouldn't last a second in a mosh pit!

[SlackAli]

Originally Posted by BanditFlyer

Oi!

The Ramones vs a bunch of silly little flying mosquito-humans?!?!?!

No Contest! The Rockers would eat those little fairies for breakfast and fart pixie dust all the way to Neverland.

Peter Pan wouldn't last a second in a mosh pit!

I'd assumed it was a typo, but still thought I'd better google in case there was a new band called the Ramons I hadn't heard of.

The Ramones live were always a great night out. Plus, the lead singer/guitarist of the Pixies is, to put it politely, slightly overwieght - always a bad sign in a rock star

[BanditFlyer]

I hadn't even heard of a band called the Pixies - from the thread title I guessed it was another punk band but, when in doubt, make fun of it You can't go wrong making fun of punk bands

[linskyjack]

I think that the Pixies should win because the Ramons have the language issue.

[jmosmith]

Ramons man!!! Ramons!!!

[DarqueMist]

Originally Posted by BanditFlyer

I hadn't even heard of a band called the Pixies - from the thread title I guessed it was another punk band but, when in doubt, make fun of it You can't go wrong making fun of punk bands

Bandit Bandit Bandit .... not all punk is mock worthy, where would music be today without the influence of bands like the Clash, the Sex Pistols, Black Flag, the Dead Kennedys, Bad Religion ?

[linskyjack]

We would all be alot better off----the differences between punk rock and hiphop are minimal.

1. Very loud
2. You can't understand the lyrics
3. When you read the record liner, you realize it wasn't that important to understand the lyrics because they are meaningless nonsense.

[DarqueMist]

linskyjack, initially punk wasn't even about music it was about politics. If you go back to its earliest days and look at lyrics you will see a very prominent message being given. Mind you it is usually about anti-establishment drivel and anarchy foolishness, but that was the rally cause of the sub-culture that embraced it. Yes punk music is loud, yes punk music is ... well musically simplistic but there is meaning to its lyrics and those lyrics held enough meaning that they managed to rally together sub-cultures on two different continents.

[linskyjack]

Well yes, you can say that Punk was more about politics---but Punk is music--they play notes and sing lyrics----therefore, as music, I truely feel it is meaningless tripe.

[DarqueMist]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Well yes, you can say that Punk was more about politics---but Punk is music--they play notes and sing lyrics.

Punk music echoed the politics of a sub-culture at the time so you can not simply seperate it from that and base all its merits on the "quality" of the music.

Originally Posted by linskyjack

...therefore, as music, I truely feel it is meaningless tripe.

as I said earlier yes musically punk is simplistic, but being simple doesn't make something "tripe". Music is an artform. Being such there is no good, there is no bad it is all subject to personal taste (which a persons politics can influence). All a person can say is that they like it or they don't.

[linskyjack]

Yes, there is no good and not bad---therefore, Beethoveens late String Quartets are on par with the Joey Ramone's brainless yelling. Thats so correct.

[DarqueMist]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

..... Beethoveens late String Quartets are on par with the Joey Ramone's brainless yelling. Thats so correct.

no it's not.
The people that like Joey Ramone will most likely not like Beethovens work, its all subjective to personal taste which is influenced by education, enviroment, politics, religion ..... neither choice is right or wrong, good or bad. It is only the opinion of the individual. Because Beethovens work is more complex, more difficult to play (more difficult to listen to) does not mean it is good and the simplicity of the Ramones work does not mean it is bad. Simple does not mean bad! I can accept that YOU like Beethoven better, but I'm not about to call him an elitist snob because I find the complexities of his music tiring to listen to. You call joey Ramone "brainless" .... why? Because you don't like his music. That's just name calling and really serves no purpose other than to make the person calling the names feel superior while at the same time demonstrates his inferiority to others.

[BanditFlyer]

Originally Posted by DarqueMist

Bandit Bandit Bandit .... not all punk is mock worthy, where would music be today without the influence of bands like the Clash, the Sex Pistols, Black Flag, the Dead Kennedys, Bad Religion ?

For the most part, anything that could change where music is today would be a good thing. So if we have to send someone back in time to kill Sid Vicious' mother a la the Terminator movie franchise, hey, it might just be a valuable enterprise to consider.

I like the Clash, the Sex Pistols, and of course The Ramones, but at what cost?!?!? I would gladly give all that up if we could somehow rid the world of David Hasselhoff(sorry I had to pull out the big guns on ya DarqueMist, but, well, you asked for it ).

Originally Posted by DarqueMist

linskyjack, initially punk wasn't even about music it was about politics. If you go back to its earliest days and look at lyrics you will see a very prominent message being given.

Oh, well in THAT case ...

Yeah, cuz who can argue with lyrics like "I hate the bloody Queen, I'll throw 'er off 'er battleship"

Originally Posted by DM

Mind you it is usually about anti-establishment drivel and anarchy foolishness, but that was the rally cause of the sub-culture that embraced it.

And what a sub-culture it was - <television commercial voice> if you like the word "oi" ... and love soccer-riots .... Have I got a sub-culture for YOU!

Originally Posted by DM

Yes punk music is loud, yes punk music is ... well musically simplistic but there is meaning to its lyrics and those lyrics held enough meaning that they managed to rally together sub-cultures on two different continents.

Nah - simplistic ain't necessarily bad, especially not in the case of punk. Most harpsichord and lute music is simplistic, but nonetheless beautifull. Those subcultures have gone the way of most musical subcultures ... <cue up the sound of a cash-register> Ka-ching.

Originally Posted by DarqueMist

no it's not.
The people that like Joey Ramone will most likely not like Beethovens work,

And this is where those subcultures come back into it - most music fans are looking for an identity moreso than a sound. Oddly enough, I would use that as an argument against such music.

I, personally, enjoy music for how it sounds. This leaves me with an odd collection of tastes that includes some hip-hop, some punk, some classical, some traditional, baroque, etc.

Originally Posted by DM

its all subjective to personal taste which is influenced by education, enviroment, politics, religion ..... neither choice is right or wrong, good or bad.

I think you left out one key point - exposure to the sound by itself, as separate from the meaning people ascribe to it due to the culture or subculture that uses that sound as their rallying cry.

But then, that's probably less than 1% of music fans who go by that criteria anyway, so perhaps it was correct to leave that out...

Originally Posted by DM

It is only the opinion of the individual. Because Beethovens work is more complex, more difficult to play (more difficult to listen to) does not mean it is good and the simplicity of the Ramones work does not mean it is bad. Simple does not mean bad! I can accept that YOU like Beethoven better, but I'm not about to call him an elitist snob because I find the complexities of his music tiring to listen to. You call joey Ramone "brainless" .... why? Because you don't like his music. That's just name calling and really serves no purpose other than to make the person calling the names feel superior while at the same time demonstrates his inferiority to others.

First - hey, that's what most music fans are about - the culture, not the sound. Second, Have you MET linskyjack?!?! Third, the very title of this thread was intended to stir up animosity between fans of one and the other - linsky knows the civ-deb game quite well.