[bill.aam]

We hear this term used all the time by politictions. This person or that supporting this company or that that is "outsourcing" jobs.

I was wondering (WITHOUT) going to a dictionay or any thing like that, just give me what you think is YOUR honest definition or what you believe the word "outsourcing" means and why is it bad..

[erick295]

No beliefs involved. Outsourcing is going to another organization/state/country for your labor rather than using an internal source. It's only bad if it hurts the economy, which at this point it hasn't, despite what some politicians want you to believe. It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point... just look at the numbers as a whole and you'll see that it hasn't really hurt anything yet.

[linskyjack]

Outsourcing is all about getting it done cheaper elsewhere. It hurts people. For example, a programmer is making 75,000 dollars for a US corporation. The corporation finds that they can get the same work done in India, for 45,000. The US programmer is laid off. Over time (and this is confirmed by pretty much everyone), US middle class wages stagnate, and the worker has less to spend on our economy. If you really want to understand "outsourcing" then read Lou Dobbs on the subject.

[Gibble]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Outsourcing is all about getting it done cheaper elsewhere. It hurts people. For example, a programmer is making 75,000 dollars for a US corporation. The corporation finds that they can get the same work done in India, for 45,000. The US programmer is laid off. Over time (and this is confirmed by pretty much everyone), US middle class wages stagnate, and the worker has less to spend on our economy. If you really want to understand "outsourcing" then read Lou Dobbs on the subject.

Outsourcing isn't always overseas. For that matter...what kind of car do you drive? An import? Because if you do...isn't that basically the same premise as outsourcing? You're giving jobs to those overseas at the expense of the North American worker.

The point you and so many "Gripers" forget is that outsourcing isn't jsut overseas, it's done locally as well and it's great for small business. I can't afford to hire a full time graphics designer, so I outsource my work to a freelancer. I get the work done cheaper than if I hire someone. That freelancer I hired is probably an individual not a large graphics company, they have little overhead, and thus, can charge lower prices...thereby helping the small business owner compete with big business.

But hey...let's not think things through logically.

[linskyjack]

No, my car was made in Tennesse. I think that the primary debate on outsourcing revolves around loss of jobs to cheaper labor overseas. As far as thinking things through logically, that is something you seldom do. You never really get it---just hone in on the minutae that somehow supports your bizzare views. Of course, you won't comment on the fact that our middle class is being hurt by outsourcing. Then again, you really know so little about what goes on in this country.

[bill.aam]

This is what I thought some answers would be,. Basically what you've both described is called "Offshoring" NOT "Outsourcing". Just because a company says it will be outsourcing some jobs does not mean they will be going to another country for those jobs. But this IMO is what the word most have come to understand what outsourcing means. IMO this is deceiving. How did outsourcing come to include moving jobs or companies to other countries? (Offshoring)

Anyone remember a man named Ross Perot and the company he founded in 1962 called EDS. EDS was founded as a way to get business to outsource services and later jobs.

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Outsourcing is all about getting it done cheaper elsewhere. It hurts people. For example, a programmer is making 75,000 dollars for a US corporation. The corporation finds that they can get the same work done in India, for 45,000. The US programmer is laid off. Over time (and this is confirmed by pretty much everyone), US middle class wages stagnate, and the worker has less to spend on our economy. If you really want to understand "outsourcing" then read Lou Dobbs on the subject.

Originally Posted by erick295

No beliefs involved. Outsourcing is going to another organization/state/country for your labor rather than using an internal source. It's only bad if it hurts the economy, which at this point it hasn't, despite what some politicians want you to believe. It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point... just look at the numbers as a whole and you'll see that it hasn't really hurt anything yet.

[Littlefield]

Yea, my Honda accord was made in Ohio damn good car!

[erick295]

Originally Posted by bill.aam

This is what I thought some answers would be,. Basically what you've both described is called "Offshoring" NOT "Outsourcing". Just because a company says it will be outsourcing some jobs does not mean they will be going to another country for those jobs. But this IMO is what the word most have come to understand what outsourcing means. IMO this is deceiving. How did outsourcing come to include moving jobs or companies to other countries? (Offshoring)

I said organization/state/country...

[linskyjack]

My original post said "Outsourcing is all about getting it done cheaper elsewhere" ----that could include overseas or domestically. Although I used a foreign example, it applies to domestic outsourcing too. Again, its away to keep labor costs low---which has both positive and negative effects.

[Gibble]

Originally Posted by linskyjack

No, my car was made in Tennesse.

ok...guess I have to take your word on that.

Originally Posted by linskyjack

I think that the primary debate on outsourcing revolves around loss of jobs to cheaper labor overseas.

But isn't the US helping other economies a good thing? If a US company outsources some parts of their operation, they still pay taxes in the US, they produce goods cheaper, helping keep the cost to you the consumer down so they can remain competitive in a world market. Or would you rather just lock the borders up from imports and exports

Originally Posted by linskyjack

As far as thinking things through logically, that is something you seldom do. You never really get it---just hone in on the minutae that somehow supports your bizzare views.

Funny how you don't explain why...just attack the poster.

Originally Posted by linskyjack

Of course, you won't comment on the fact that our middle class is being hurt by outsourcing. Then again, you really know so little about what goes on in this country.

Continue the attack. Provide no argument. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK!!!

[erick295]

Originally Posted by Gibble

But isn't the US helping other economies a good thing?

Not if it hurts our own in the process.

[linskyjack]

I am not going to waste my time educating Gibble on this subject. If he really wants to understand the effects of outsourcing on our middle class, there are plenty of sources out there on the subject from both conservatives (Buchnan, Dobbs etc) and liberals. As far as attacking goes, Gibble usually starts it in his passive aggressive way, but cries like a baby when he gets a response. He can't help himself.

[Gibble]

Whatever linsky...clearly, our countries are so different that being middle class in Canada is a Utopia compared to middle class Americans



Personally, I find it hysterical how you completely write off anythign I say because I'm a Canadian...you know...because our countries are so dissimlar and have such hatred towards one another

[Paquadez]

In its original connotation, the term "Outsource" and "Outsourcing" were not the exclusive province of the ICT world.

Probaby one of the best early examples of outsourcing was transport. A large company could improve its customer service by contracting its total delivery service to a third party transport specialist.

In this way, the transport company could be expected to benefit from economies of scale (e.g. it buys greater volumes of trucks and can therefore demand higher discounts from manufacturers) and so on.

The manufacturing/distribution company could focus on its core business and improve this.

The only losers were the truck drivers, loaders, checkers and transport support staff.

It is critical to not confuse contracting with outsourcing. It has been common practice for many years for companies to contract various aspects of their business to outside parties.

Printing was a good example, however with modern computer based reprographics it did become a trend to produce much in-house. This trend has actually reversed, as graphics and media have become more specialised and demanding.

For many, many years, companies have contracted all or parts of their processes to overseas operations. In international trade terms this is called Cost Advantage Basis.

The newish trend of outsourcing whole processes is only, in fact, a continuation of an established reality. This fact is lost when pols search for an emotive cause.

One aspect which does need clarification, however. When a businesss or public body outsources whole rafts of its core operations, it loses close control and often, quality and customer service deteriorate. Thus the actual benefits have to be considered, holistically. It isn't only money!

Additionally, there is a very large danger in uncontrolled outsourcing of manufacturing processes. After time, the lower cost economy has built up two discrete benefits: Capital and knoweldge.

As happened with Japan and Hong Kong, early electronics companies in the USA and UK who blindly contracted out increasingly large portions of their manufacturing process, found after a few years that the Japanese had sufficient knowledge and capital to steal their markets. Automobiles and Detroit spring to mind.

Same now with PCs and software.

It is fine if as part of a long-term plan an economy is strategically aligned to move away from high volume lower-end design and manufacturing processes into more demanding, much higher added value low volume products. For example, let the overseas manufacturer focus on making PCs whilst the home economy dominates the World in communications satellites.

More demanding, leading-edge higher tech is far harder to copy or emulate and therefore, this preserves the market for economic stability.

And that folks, is one of the main core weaknesses in the UK and the USA today.

Paq

[Gibble]

Paq, I agree with alot of what you said...

...one thing this just kind of made me realize though, is with outsourcing. You end up with a greater number of smaller companies (in scope, not necessarily size/money/power) that are more specialized at what they do. Everyone ends up outsourcing to one another because of the increased efficiency in each business. Not only that, if my company focuses strictly on programming, and I outsource my graphics work, my employees will mainly be programmers, and will get recogition for a job well done, while the graphics designers if they worked for my company, probably wouldn't get the same recognition...yet, with them working for a company that specialized in graphics design, they will get more recognition from the head of the company, simply because they are the bread and butter of the organization.

In a large company you might get recognition from your department...but, if you arne't the core business, you may not get it from the head of the company...with companies being more streamlined and efficient...those problems no longer arise to the same extent.